Tetori Monk Help

[Ayrphish]

I really like the idea of the tetori monk, and tried to figure out a good feat progression.

I am left wondering if he will have any dpr at all, and hence much use to the party.

Here are the feats I was thinking. Suggestions for replacements are welcome, as well as thoughts on overall group value. An idea of dpr would also be great.

lvl1: Improved Unarmed strike, Stunning Fist, Improved Grapple. Combat expertise (Monk 1) Improved Trip (H)

Lvl 2: Stunning Pin
Lvl 3: Ki Throw
Lvl 5: Binding Throw
lvl 6: Greater Grapple
lvl 7: Jawbreaker
lvl9: Rapid Grappler
lvl 10: Pinning Knockout
lvl 11: Bonebreaker
lvl 13: Pinning Rend
lvl 14: Chokehold
Lvl 15: Final Embrace
Lvl 17: ??
Lvl 18: Neckbreaker
Lvl 19: ??

[Beebs]

Don't forget about this part of grappling:

"Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target's CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check."

Who needs DPR when you can just grapple, pin, and tie someone up!

Also, I believe it is possible to grapple more than one person at once once your have greater grapple.

Regarding non-grappling dpr, you could always just switch to power attack + a two-handed weapon.

[Ayrphish]

With the monk not getting bab1 until level two, how should I redo the feats to get weapon Prof and power attack?

[Beebs]

I would ditch all the trip feats personally--if you can trip them you should just grapple them instead. And binding throw seems a bit redundant with the grab ability you get. This frees up a whole bunch of feats. The dragon style feats might be a good replacement to increase your DPR with your unarmed strikes as well if you don't want to go the weapon route. And taking any of the grappling feats earlier with the freed up feats from trip couldn't hurt

[wraithstrike]

I would trip them to lower their CMD since the penalty to AC would apply to CMD. Then I would grapple them. I don't think all those grapple feats are needed as Beebs said though.

[Cult of Vorg]

+1 on skipping the trip feats. Many things cannot be tripped, but almost nothing is immune to pinning. Your chance to trip them will probably never be greater than your chance to grapple, so you're just building in an extra fail chance into your routine.

Tetori get the grab ability, so you don't need to sacrifice unarmed attacks while you set up the grapple. So, +1 to taking power attack at 1st and dragon style at 3rd. Then maybe combat reflexes or ewp for a 2hand reach monk weapon in case there's stuff you'd rather not touch.

On line with that last, instead of ewp feat, maybe an unarmed fighter dip for the expanded weapon proficiencies and style feat?

[Ayrphish]

I can't take power attack at first, since I won't have a 1bab. Getting rid of all the trip and ki throw feats is a good idea, but that leaves me wondering what to replace them with, especially at first level. All of the even number feats in the progression are the tetori bonus feats, so it's silly to grab them earlier.

[Beebs]

Maybe take Dragon Style at level 3 and Dragon Ferocity at level 5?

Not a lot of great options for level one feats for a monk. You can always just take toughness for a few more HP.

Maybe don't be a human—one less level one feat to agonize over! Dwarf is a pretty solid choice. Halfling can be absurd with their alternate favored class bonus to grapple CMD.

Here's an interesting thought:

Vital Strike.

Normally this feat sucks. Here's where it comes in for you:

1) Use greater grapple to maintain your grapple as a move action.
2) Use your standard action to vital strike!

Perhaps take Vital Strike at 11 (You could take it at 9, depends whether this or rapid grappler is more important to you)
and Imp. Vital Strike at 15

[bigkilla]

The Snapping Turtle Style is pretty nice,at the third feat you get a immediate grapple attempt on anyone who misses you with a attack and it adds to your CMD.

[Raje]

I'd echo Snapping Turtle Style. You can take it with a level 1 feat also, which it seemed you needed to use anyway. Snapping Turtle Clutch you'd want sometime after level 3, as it will save you that standard action needing to initiate the grapple (assuming of course someone attack you and miss).

Another interesting feat to consider would be Body Shield. When you're grappling someone and you're attacked, you can use the one being grappled as cover against that attack, and if it miss it gets resolved on the creatur used as cover. Fun stuff!

[Ayrphish]

Thanks for the advice, I am definitely going to invest in Snapping Turtle. As well as a level 1 dip into unarmed fighter. I realize this character isn't 'optimized' but I like a lot of the flavor ideas that I have made. That said, if I am making some horrible decisions, or should consider an alternative, please let me know. I don't want unoptimized to = worthless.

Level 1: Unarmed Fighter (Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Exotic Weapon Proficiency Tetsubo, Snapping Turtle Style)
Level 2: Tetori Monk (Stunning Fist, Improved Grapple)
Lvl 3: Stunning Pin, Improved Initiative
Lvl 5: Snapping Turtle Clutch
lvl 7: Jawbreaker, Greater Grapple
lvl9: Rapid Grappler
lvl 11: Bonebreaker, Pinning Knockout
lvl 13: Pinning Rend
Lvl 15: Final Embrace, chokehold
Lvl 17: Body Shield
Lvl 19: Neckbreaker & ??

[Raje]

Not sure why you'd take unarmed fighter, especially not at first level, as you can get snapping turtle style with monk 1. I could understand it later to get a style feat you couldn't get normally, but then you can take clutch at level 3 (dropping improved initiative, which does more good on a caster - I'd value something else over that, dodge for example).

I assume the Tetsubo is for flavour? As you wouldn't really be able to use it while grappling - which makes it a feat dump.

I'd probably get Body Shield earlier. A free hit on an enemy is big. Not sure what you'd want to delay though.

You might want to throw in some QG monk to replace whatever ability seems fitting. Barkskin (as long as tetori doesn't replace whatever barkskin replace) would be handy.