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Hey all,
Last game the villain cast Hold Person on the fighter who was holding a rod. What would need to happen to telekinesis that rod out of the player's hand? Is the hand then assumed to be loose enough to pull the rod out? If the player's STR is 22, and the spell pulls up to 25 lbs., is there a chance of being unsuccessful, or is this an easy thing to do with a HELD target?
You could look at it as the person was held, and their muscles are frozen in a constricted position so the strength still applies or you can look at it as they are not able to exert any strength to hold onto the item.
I don't think their BAB should apply since they can't really use it so it is almost an auto-win unless if you go with the constricted view unless the caster rolls a one.
If you go with the "not able to exert strength" view I think the caster just gets the item.
PS:I don't think there are any concrete rules for this situation though. I could not find them if they do exist.
The description of the spell "the subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place" and the effects of paralyzation is to reduce the Str and Dex to 0. So yes the villain would have no trouble at all wrenching the rod out of the hand of the fighter (whose effective Str is 0).
I thought their str was 0 also, but I could not find it. thanks.
...the effects of paralyzation is to reduce the Str and Dex to 0...
I don't think that is correct. If your ability score were 0 you would be unconscious, which you are clearly not.
Paralysis
Some monsters and spells have the supernatural or spell-like ability to paralyze their victims, immobilizing them through magical means. Paralysis from poison is discussed in the Afflictions section.
A paralyzed character cannot move, speak, or take any physical action. He is rooted to the spot, frozen and helpless. Not even friends can move his limbs. He may take purely mental actions, such as casting a spell with no components.
A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can't swim and may drown."
Sounds like an opposed strength check.
Or just coup de grace the held person, and take what you want from the corpse.
Those scores no longer make you unconcious at zero.
Those scores no longer make you unconcious at zero.
If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die.
Unless they changed it without updating the PRD, which is possible.
Forgot that str still knocks you out but yes with hold person you are paralyzed and have an effective 0 in both.
Paralyzed
A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A paralyzed swimmer can't swim and may drown. A creature can move through a space occupied by a paralyzed creature—ally or not. Each square occupied by a paralyzed creature, however, counts as 2 squares to move through.
You are quoting the PRD right? Now I'm really confused...
The d20pfsrd actually.
I to reference the d20pfsrd so to be thorough here it is from pg. 568 Core Rule Book:
Paralyzed: A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions.
And just to be completely complete, from the PRD itself:
Paralyzed: A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions.
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Okay... so the rod is easily wrested from the fighter, who has an effective STR of zero. Got it, thanks! It can be basically picked up on the move with a flyby attack, or the adjacent creature can begin Coup de Gras, or telekinesis can swiftly bring the rod to the enemy.
Either way, this battle has taken a turn for the worse. Mwahaha. Thanks!
Okay... so the rod is easily wrested from the fighter, who has an effective STR of zero. Got it, thanks! It can be basically picked up on the move with a flyby attack, or the adjacent creature can begin Coup de Gras, or telekinesis can swiftly bring the rod to the enemy.
Either way, this battle has taken a turn for the worse. Mwahaha. Thanks!
I don't think it is quite that simple. The part about effective strength being 0 is a reference specifically to paralyze due to poison, not spells. Under paralyze from spells, there is the line, "He is rooted to the spot, frozen and helpless. Not even friends can move his limbs. " Clearly this is a different condition then a normal lack of strength. For example, if the character were lifting a hundred pounds over his head, and became held, he would still be holding up the weigh for the duration of the spell.
While you are correct in ruling the rod could easily be taken away, I think it would also be correct to rule that no one could take the rod, even if he wanted them to. Or you could rule it anywhere in between. I think the rules support any ruling you wish to make in this case.
School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level antipaladin 2, bard 2, cleric/oracle 2, inquisitor 2, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 2
CASTINGCasting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F/DF (a small, straight piece of iron)
EFFECTRange medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target one humanoid creature
Duration 1 round/level (D); see text
Saving Throw Will negates; see text; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTIONThe subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can't swim and may drown
Nowhere does it say not even friends can move his limbs is says they are paralyzed which is a condtion with its own rules.
A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A paralyzed swimmer can't swim and may drown. A creature can move through a space occupied by a paralyzed creature—ally or not. Each square occupied by a paralyzed creature, however, counts as 2 squares to move through.
There's nothing there either on that line. In fact i can't find the line "He is rooted to the spot, frozen and helpless. Not even friends can move his limbs. " anywhere.
Some monsters and spells have the supernatural or spell-like ability to paralyze their victims, immobilizing them through magical means. Paralysis from poison is discussed in the Afflictions section.
A paralyzed character cannot move, speak, or take any physical action. He is rooted to the spot, frozen and helpless. Not even friends can move his limbs. He may take purely mental actions, such as casting a spell with no components.
A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can't swim and may drown.
Though this is talking about monsters doing it and then its not even repeated under the universal monster rules
This special attack renders the victim immobile. Paralyzed creatures cannot move, speak, or take any physical actions. The creature is rooted to the spot, frozen and helpless. Paralysis works on the body, and a character can usually resist it with a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 the paralyzing creature’s racial HD + the paralyzing creature’s Con modifier; the DC is given in the creature’s description). Unlike hold person and similar effects, a paralysis effect does not allow a new save each round. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown. The duration of the paralysis varies and is included in the creature’s description.
Format: paralysis (1d4 rounds, DC 18); Location: Special Attacks and individual attacks.
Its one of those things that needs to be all made to read the same or so specify where its diffent.
Either way, this battle has taken a turn for the worse. Mwahaha. Thanks!
Especially when one of the villian's minons coup de grace's the helpless Fighter with it's next action.
** spoiler omitted **
Though this is talking about monsters doing it and then its not even repeated under the universal monster rules
** spoiler omitted **
Its one of those things that needs to be all made to read the same or so specify where its diffent.
The paralyze vs paralysis vs hold person has come up at least twice within the past week. I think we need to FAQ this to get it cleaned up.
Amen it would cause much rejoicing.
From the PRD entry on combat maneuvers: "If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll)."
From Telekinesis: "Combat Maneuver: Alternatively, once per round, you can use telekinesis to perform a bull rush, disarm, grapple (including pin), or trip. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don't provoke attacks of opportunity, you use your caster level in place of your Combat Maneuver Bonus, and you add your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer) in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier. No save is allowed against these attempts, but spell resistance applies normally. This version of the spell can last 1 round per caster level, but it ends if you cease concentration."
Seems to me that the BBEG just uses a telekinesis combat maneuver and automatically succeeds.