I was looking at possibly taking Resilient Eidolon so even when I sleep or if knocked unconcious I would still have my Eidolon. Thus I can have subpar Str, Dex, and Con stats and not get caught in a bind and have to hide while trying to summon my Eidolon. 1 Min. in a fight when you get ambushed would greatly limit most Summoners. Are there any reasons this wouldn't be allowed or would hamper me in any way?
With Spell Focus and Augment Summoning in a Synthesis build would this add to the STR and Con since an Eidolon is treated as a summoned creature?
How can you heal an Eidolon since it is treated as temp. HPs on a Synthesis? Or does it Refresh when you LvL since you can change augments?
Summoners are proficient with all simple weapons would the 2 Point Evolution Weapon Training increase this to allow a Synthesis the ability to use Martial Weapons or would it be better to take the Feat?
This is my first attempt at making a Synthesis and they seem like a pretty awesome build that will lean towards melee with some spell casting (Buffing) ability or am I picturing that wrong? Are they more casters? I know it is based on how you play, but as a Synthesis which way are they usually leaned to?
From what I have read most people seem to enjoy the Syntheis. Any tips or advice to help me along would be greatly appreciated. I was on the fence between this a Magus or Sorcerer. If you have a suggestiong as to why I should go with one of the others feel free. I am just brainstorming atm nothing is set and the game isn't for 2 weeks.
|
Resilient Eidilon (and most Eidilon feats) are banned from Synthasists; it's the subtle difference between having the "Eidilon class feature" and the "Fused Eidilon class feature". Just as most kitted fighters can't use Gloves of Deuling; though the replacement powers are similar, they are not considered the same for qualifying feats / magic items.
Not unless you use the spell "Summon Eidilon". It does not effect this ability; just spells with the word "summon". It's been FAQed.
You can't increase it; the martial prereqs the simple evolution. I know po-tay-to po-tah-to, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Oh, and keep Con high, preferably as high as the Eidilons; helps solve that "instant death when unbound" problem.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
According to game developers, lines like this one...
"In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner's normal eidolon ability."
...allow you to meet the prerequisites for feats like Resiliant Eidolon.
Seriously? That would be awesome....
Do you have a link to where that was said RD?
to OP:
They are very versatile, you can do all kinds of different Synthesist builds... My personal favourite right now is probably a Biped with lots of claws and grab with arms free for casting, sort of a battle-mage type.
You can take it in many different directions though, without sacrificing power.
Sadly, that doesn't help many archetype fighters as their abilities rarely say anything similar.
I'll try to re-find the post, but I honestly don't know where to begin.
Sucks Resilient doesn't work like that, but I guess that would be a lil to much. Unless Rav can find that reference I can see the argument.
The Augment Summoning makes sense I was just hoping it would fall in my favor I should have known game balance wouldn't allow it.
So you are almost better off taking the actual damage until a certain point and then using the Temp. HPs to keep you standing if you ever get that low? This seems really harsh. Are the AC bonuses enough of a benefit to make this trade off?
One other thing if you have say a Bite attack (primary), Claws (primary), and a Sting (primary) would you be allowed to use all 3 if you are allowed 3 natural attacks per round and use a full round action? Or would you have to use say Tail whip (secondary)? At level 1 not later on when you get more Base attacks.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pretty sure this is the post, though it isn't as clearly defined as I remember (or would have liked).
Hello Sean K Reynolds
About the Extra Evolution Feat.
Is it intended that a synthesist NOT get access to this feat, and others like it, as they don't actually have the Summon Eidolon class ability?
From the archetype:
Seeing as nobody seemed to know about it, and that it took me over 45 minutes of sloshing through old posts to find it, I STRONGLY urge you to follow the above link to the original post and FAQ the hell out of it. I've seen questions like this come up far too often for it not to be entered into the FAQ
Thanks for finding it, omw to faq it up. :)
Sucks Resilient doesn't work like that, but I guess that would be a lil to much. Unless Rav can find that reference I can see the argument.
The Augment Summoning makes sense I was just hoping it would fall in my favor I should have known game balance wouldn't allow it.
So you are almost better off taking the actual damage until a certain point and then using the Temp. HPs to keep you standing if you ever get that low? This seems really harsh. Are the AC bonuses enough of a benefit to make this trade off?
One other thing if you have say a Bite attack (primary), Claws (primary), and a Sting (primary) would you be allowed to use all 3 if you are allowed 3 natural attacks per round and use a full round action? Or would you have to use say Tail whip (secondary)? At level 1 not later on when you get more Base attacks.
If your max attacks is 3 (or more) and you have 3 primary natural attacks, you can make all of them as a full-attack.
On the other hand, if you for example have the Serpentine base form that includes bite and tail whip, you wouldnt be able to buy more than one other attack with your evolution points, even if you dont want to use the ones from your base form...the max attacks is how many attacks you can have access to.
Also: you can't just choose to take normal damage instead of losing the temp HP from your Eidolon, you have to lose those first, although if it would be reduced to 0 you can transfer your own HP into temp HP.
It is generally in my experience always worth doing this pretty much right till your own HP are down to just about 0 (unless you have less Con than your Eidolon)
How can you heal an Eidolon since it is treated as temp. HPs on a Synthesis? Or does it Refresh when you LvL since you can change augments?
There is errata that makes any effect thst specifically heals an Eidolon to work for restoring the temp. HP, such as the Rejuvenate Eidolon spell line.
Awesome, I don't have to start my own thread. I had a question about the Style feats and the Synthesist Archtype. Does the Summoner have to meet the pre-requisites without the Eidolon or can the Eidolon's physical scores count for the purposes of meeting the requirements for those feats?
Example: Dragon Style requires a 15 STR, Improved Unarmed Strike, and 3 Ranks in Acrobatics. Can I qualify for this feat if I have Improved Unarmed Strike, 3 Ranks in Acrobatics but the Eidolon's STR is 15+ but not the Summoner's?
|
You qualify for a feat if you can qualify while in the fused eidolon form. And you can only use the benefit in the fused eidolon form if the unfused summoner form does not qualify.
The classic example is the 8 STR gnome synthesist at first level qualifies for Power Attack, but can only use it while fused.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Resilient Eidolon only gains you a round per level before banishment, so it is not high on the list for a suggested feat for early in your career.
If you have spell focus (conjuration), you can take augment summoning.
If you mean, does it work on the synthesist's Eidolon, then I believe the answer is that it is only if you use the summon Eidolon spell. Although, use on the regular ritual is of debatable legality.
|
|
The advantage of the spell is twofold:
1) You get the use of augment (+4 to Str; the con bonus is ignorable typically, unless you are a dwarven summoner prior to gaining large size... you should never run your hp low enough where loss of hp should cause you to die). Granted, few Synths bother with this; there are too many powerful feat lines (especially if they can get the Additional Evolutions feat, which it looks like they can).
2) You can use your standard action summons. Set up some flank, get more warm bodies on the field. And they stick around mins / lvl, so can often stay around.
So travel in your form, but if you are going into a dungeon or you know you are about to fight a major battle, opt to use Summon Eidilon. This becomes more true once you can afford a fairly cheap rod of extend (making it last twice your level in minutes).
Pretty sure this is the post, though it isn't as clearly defined as I remember (or would have liked).
Seeing as nobody seemed to know about it, and that it took me over 45 minutes of sloshing through old posts to find it, I STRONGLY urge you to follow the above link to the original post and FAQ the hell out of it. I've seen questions like this come up far too often for it not to be entered into the FAQHello Sean K Reynolds
About the Extra Evolution Feat.
Is it intended that a synthesist NOT get access to this feat, and others like it, as they don't actually have the Summon Eidolon class ability?
From the archetype:
Had not noticed this thread till now, was going to post that same link. Thanks for saving me the trouble.
In a synth gets his eidolon banished can he use the summon eidolon spell to get it back? I think this may be the Achilles heel of the synth
if not, i think i would houserule this one. if nothing else cause it gives the synthesist more weaknesses. (s)he becomes affected by prot from celg, and the other things eidolons aren't usually suspect to.
In a synth gets his eidolon banished can he use the summon eidolon spell to get it back? I think this may be the Achilles heel of the synth
He certainly can. There's nothing in the spell that would imply otherwise. If your eidolon is not on the same plane you are you can get the eidolon back with the summon eidolon spell. And its not on the same plane if its been dismissed or banished, either via a spell or simply by having its temp HP reduced to 0.
Just remember that the cast time is 1 round rather than a standard action, so take care to not get interrupted (be invisible, retreat behind cover and hide, etc.).
Of course, there's also nothing stopping whoever banished him from simply doing it again, and while summoned by the spell rather than the ritual, even dispel magic can get rid of big E. Protection from X spells will also render his natural attacks pretty useless. On the plus side, he can benefit from Augment Summoning for the duration of the Summon Eidolon Spell.
|
-Race / Class-
Half - Elf / Summoner (Synthesist), Paladin 2, Monk 1
-Stats with out Eidolon (25 point buy)-
STR 07 (+6 item)(-6 age) = 07
DEX 07 (+6 item)(-6 age) = 07
CON 10 (-6 age) = 04
INT 13 (+3 age) = 16
WIS 17 (+6 item)(+3 age) = 26
CHA 18 (+2 racial)(+3 age)(+5 leveling)(+6 item) = 34
-Saves with out Eidolon-
Fort = 28
Reflex = 25
Will = 40
AC = 36
Touch = 23
Flat - Foot = 28
-Stats with Eidolon-
STR 29
DEX 28
CON 13
INT 16
WIS 26
CHA 34
-Saves with Eidolon-
Fort = 32
Reflex = 37
Will = 44
AC = 72 (76 with combat expertise)
Touch = 31
Flat - Foot = 58
-Eidolon Abilities-
Base - Darkvision, Evasion, Improved Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack
Form - Biped - claws, limbs (arms), limbs (legs)
Claws (x2)
limbs (arms) (x2)
Immunity (acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic)
Spell Resistance (28)
Flight Su (30ft)
Improved Natural Armor (x4 = 8ac)
Improved Damage (claws)
-Class / Feat Progression-
M 01 Dodge, Skill Focus Perception, Toughness
P O2
P 03 Combat Expertise
S 04
S 05 Extra Evolution
S 06
S 07 Combat Reflexes
S 08
S 09 Extra Evolution
S 10
S 11 Vigilant Eidolon
S 12
S 13 Extra Evolution
S 14
S 15 (insert feat here)
S 16
S 17 (insert feat here)
S 18
S 19 Extra Evolution
S 20
-Gear-
Bracers of Armor
Ring of Protection
Ring of Forcefangs
Cloak of Resistance
Amulet of Natural Armor
Headband of Mental Prowess (wis and cha)
Belt of Physical Might (str and dex)
High saves, immunities to all spell damage but positive / negative and force, and spell resistance.
Btw there are spells that get rid of the penalties of old age just to let u know.
your armour doesnt stack with eidolon's armour...
your armour doesnt stack with eidolon's armour...
The eidolon's "armor bonus" can be (should be) built so as to be entirely natural armor. Why? So it stacks with armor bonuses, which are easier to get...even for something that cannot wear armor. An optimal eidolon has absolutely NO armor bonus, allowing stuff like bracers of natural armor or mage armor to stack.
If a summoner wore armor, it would cease to function while the eidolon was summoned. However, bracers of armor would function normally in normal and fused forms. Amulet of NA adds an enhancement bonus to the natural armor already possessed by the eidolon (or non-fused synthesist, though his natural armor is +0 by default).
Breaking down the math for AC on the synthesist above, a 20th level synthesist can have up to +28 NA (base +2, level +16, Imp.NA x 5 +10). He's only taken INA x4 though, so +26 NA.
Adding +5 enhancement via the Amulet gets to +31.
Adding 8 for Bracers of Armor +8 gets to +39.
Adding the +9 Dex mod of the above build gets to +48.
Adding a ring of Protection +5 gets to +53.
Adding Wis mod to AC (Monk level) gets to +61.
Dodge grants +1 for +62.
Starting with base 10 AC and adding +62 gets you to AC 72 (76 with combat expertise).
I think there might still be a mistake, in that that build is not a 20th level synthesist, having taken 3 level dips, so it would miss the last progression of the eidolon's armor (NA) bonus. It would also miss the final +Str/Dex progression step, but I'm not sure if that affects anything. Of course, I could have missed some offsetting factor as well.
Its still pretty close to legit at any rate. Eidolons can have very very high defenses if you build them that way.
edit: This isn't unique to synthesists, although a normal summoner would either be very squishy without all those magic items, or very poor if he had to pay to put them in available slots. Obviously, the level dips for +Wis to AC and +Cha to saves wouldn't function for a normal summoner's eidolon, so that does bring things down slightly.
|
|
your armour doesnt stack with eidolon's armour...The eidolon's "armor bonus" can be (should be) built so as to be entirely natural armor. Why? So it stacks with armor bonuses, which are easier to get...even for something that cannot wear armor. An optimal eidolon has absolutely NO armor bonus, allowing stuff like bracers of natural armor or mage armor to stack.
If a summoner wore armor, it would cease to function while the eidolon was summoned. However, bracers of armor would function normally in normal and fused forms. Amulet of NA adds an enhancement bonus to the natural armor already possessed by the eidolon (or non-fused synthesist, though his natural armor is +0 by default).
Breaking down the math for AC on the synthesist above, a 20th level synthesist can have up to +28 NA (base +2, level +16, Imp.NA x 5 +10). He's only taken INA x4 though, so +26 NA.
Adding +5 enhancement via the Amulet gets to +31.
Adding 8 for Bracers of Armor +8 gets to +39.
Adding the +9 Dex mod of the above build gets to +48.
Adding a ring of Protection +5 gets to +53.
Adding Wis mod to AC (Monk level) gets to +61.
Dodge grants +1 for +62.
Starting with base 10 AC and adding +62 gets you to AC 72 (76 with combat expertise).
I think there might still be a mistake, in that that build is not a 20th level synthesist, having taken 3 level dips, so it would miss the last progression of the eidolon's armor (NA) bonus. It would also miss the final +Str/Dex progression step, but I'm not sure if that affects anything. Of course, I could have missed some offsetting factor as well.
Its still pretty close to legit at any rate. Eidolons can have very very high defenses if you build them that way.
edit: This isn't unique to synthesists, although a normal summoner would either be very squishy without all those magic items, or very poor if he had to pay to put them in available slots. Obviously, the level dips for +Wis to AC and +Cha to saves...
Nice u got the entire breakdown but the +4 shield ac from Greater Shielded Meld.
Figured i would forget something. Well at any rate, shielded meld makes up for the stuff missed by the dips. ;-)