There are high level warriors that DON'T have potions of fly?
The ones with winged boots?
Sounds to me like the lady 4th Ed fan is speaking from the perspective of total optimization for every ranged attacker. Not every combatant is going to maximize his ranged attacks, but there are ways to make them more effective, of course, without taking a whole feat tree.
Opinions being like a certain unmentionable thing. Right?
As to my experience, I have GMed for parties with lots of ranged attackers, but most of the time it's only one or two that really care about it. A lot of players just want to charge in and slash. I think it's always been that way, and I have little doubt that most 4th Ed players are also that way, since it's simply human nature.
It would have been interesting to turn tables on her and ask her if she was implying that all 4th Ed players are strategic and tactical geniuses, concerned totally with careful application of surgical ranged strikes as a precursor to their flawlessly choreographed melee strikes. You know, versus those dumb Pathfinder players who all make the exact same builds and are too vapid to realize they are playing a game where no ranged character can be built effectively.
My guess is she is mistakenly under the impression that her previously-mentioned opinion smells like roses.
There was an above post describing just such a warrior.Maybe he used it already.
Assuming the "above post" was mine, the warrior in question is a half-orc hammer specialist at level 8. We run a fairly low-magic campaign and don't have a lot of treasure either. This is a brand-new player who joined the play group just as we were reaching the final boss fight. To bring him into the campaign, the GM decided that he was a prisoner that we freed just before the final fight. Luckily he managed to find his special hammer (He and the GM worked that out, I suppose the jailor had kept the hammer for himself and when we rescued him, he recovered it, I dunno...)
Anyway, he had nothing but his hammer and some scavenged armor. So when the fight went vertical and he had no ranged options, I was at first not alarmed. After risking my own character's neck to move next to him so he could use my character's magic javelin, it was when he refused to do so that my concern arose.
I can understand not having a ranged weapon. I can understand a character concept that prefers melee. I can understand a recently freed prisoner not having magical or mundane items that can help overcome self-imposed tactical limitations.
What I CAN'T understand is "Here! Use this javelin since you can't do anything else right now!" and being told "I only fight with my hammer. Otherwise I stand around like a statue and let the rest of the party win or die."
Just. Don't. Get. That.
You don't have to.
I suppose not. And in this world of any opinion expressed being accused of imposing "badwrongfun" accusations, I suppose any concern I express about a player creating party problems by role playing such a character will only get me attacked as attempting to impose my own play style on a poor innocent fun seeker.
Whatever.
A ranged weapon and a silver dagger are 2 things that every one of my characters carries.
A ranged weapon and a silver dagger are 2 things that every one of my characters carries.
Don't forget the cold iron.
I never really thought about, but both in games i've played and gm'd, people don't take ranged weapons unless it's their thing.
Of course, this extended to 3.5 and 2nd as well, not just pathfinder.
A ranged weapon and a silver dagger are 2 things that every one of my characters carries.Don't forget the cold iron.
Nah, cold iron is mostly for fey and outsiders not something that is exactly common for a low level party to encounter.
Nah, cold iron is mostly for fey and outsiders not something that is exactly common for a low level party to encounter.A ranged weapon and a silver dagger are 2 things that every one of my characters carries.Don't forget the cold iron.
You wouldn't rather "have it and not need it than..."? :)
IRL, if I'm on the soccer field with someone that refuses to kick the ball and says he only uses his head, I'm probably going to remove that player from the field. This is pretty much the same thing.
Careful Happy, or TOZ (and others) will lecture you on social interaction deficiencies too.
|
I've endured being openly atheist in the bible belt*, so I can endure electronic poo on a message board just fine, but thanks anyway. ;)
Careful, or AD might attribute things to you that aren't true, like enjoying the taste of electronic poo.
While I'm sad you have such a hostile work environment, I'm happy they haven't just fired you for daring to disbelieve. I hear some atheists can't even mention it for fear of being blackballed in their industry.
I hear some atheists can't even mention it for fear of being blackballed in their industry.
Atheist priests have it so hard.
|
Careful Happy, or TOZ (and others) will lecture you on social interaction deficiencies too.
IRL, if I'm on the soccer field with someone that refuses to kick the ball and says he only uses his head, I'm probably going to remove that player from the field. This is pretty much the same thing.I've endured being openly atheist in the bible belt*, so I can endure electronic poo on a message board just fine, but thanks anyway. ;)
* Nothing like being told that you have to work Christmas - despite it being your allotted holiday off - since you're a "heathen" and that "good woman" needs to spend some time with her "proper family" on this day of all days. And upper management was fine with this...
While I can sympathize, and I agree about kicking people off the team if they don't contribute (both soccer and RPG), I think your Xmas example is a bit silly.
I've personally volunteered to work extra shifts on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day so that people who care about such things can have off to celebrate their holiday. They care about having that day off, and I have no specific reason to care, so I'm fine with being the one who works, just to be nice to my coworkers. I'd get pretty pissed off if someone talked down to me and called me a "heathen", but that's also part of why I choose not to live in the Bible Belt, despite my dad trying to convince me to move up to his area in Tennessee.
I love ranged combat. with point blank master the only penalty to using pointblank at all times is not being able to flank.
honestly between that and clusterd shots removing the only penalties to using bows I dont see why any one ever uses melee any more.
Swords are cool, that's why. In all seriousness, how do you carry enough ammo? Probably a silly question, but nevertheless... My old compound bow had a quiver for 6 arrows.
A ranged weapon and a silver dagger are 2 things that every one of my characters carries.Silver light hammer instead of dagger. That way there's no -1 damage penalty.
In 3.0, silver daggers were like 10 gp and they were an exception to the normal silver weapon rules, so it was stupid to not get one. 2nd ed didn't really have cold iron, so I never got into the habit of carrying one, but at 4 gp it is kind of stupid not to carry one.
Swords are cool, that's why. In all seriousness, how do you carry enough ammo? Probably a silly question, but nevertheless... My old compound bow had a quiver for 6 arrows.I love ranged combat. with point blank master the only penalty to using pointblank at all times is not being able to flank.
honestly between that and clusterd shots removing the only penalties to using bows I dont see why any one ever uses melee any more.
Handy haversack stuffed with quivers -- plus misses have a 50% reuse rate.
Handy haversack stuffed with quivers -- plus misses have a 50% reuse rate.Swords are cool, that's why. In all seriousness, how do you carry enough ammo? Probably a silly question, but nevertheless... My old compound bow had a quiver for 6 arrows.I love ranged combat. with point blank master the only penalty to using pointblank at all times is not being able to flank.
honestly between that and clusterd shots removing the only penalties to using bows I dont see why any one ever uses melee any more.
My GM requires my 8th level druid with rapid and manyshot to track arrows. Her quiver holds 20 arrows, which is just enough to get through most fights. She's down to 50-something arrows now, but she's also got materials and the skill to craft her own, so she makes new arrows every chance she gets.
Uh Daroob.... I'm pretty sure anything that only holds six arrows doesn't actually qualify as a "quiver." :-)
I use Mel Blanc...
I still can't get through a TOZ post without feeling like he constantly has one eyebrow cocked.
I still can't get through a TOZ post without feeling like he constantly has one eyebrow cocked.
Funny, I get just about exactly 1/2 of that same feeling. ;)
Seriously, man; it's like its frozen that way!
Short attention span?
Try again. It'll come to you. Eventually. Maybe....
It'll probably take a long time.
You could probably apply an equal amount of wit if you pushed it. :)
I personally suggest you read my posts in the voice of the Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons. It will greatly improve your reading experience.
WORST. POST. EVER.
*joking, joking* ^-^
It's okay, I read that as Seoni as Valley Girl.
Like what-evar. :\