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Argh. Useless title.
It's a matter of principle, and that doesn't work on smartphones. I'd much rather there not be a ton of threads where you have no clue what it's about from the title. What does this thread gain from not saying "Why wouldn't anyone take Leadership if they could?" The only thing I can think of is that it piques interest and gets people in, which is one of those sleazy marketing tricks.
<3 DH but I really dislike this trend that's been popping up lately. Maybe it's confirmation bias.
Heh. criticism accepted.
It was very much a "read the intro post before deciding whether you should comment" sort of title.
However, its worth noting that you do get faster responses this way.
I'll consider your complaint, but I may do it again, due to the speed of responses.
re: "leadership granting 'instant Cohort, no RP needed'": In both cases the relevant Cohort already existed as either an NPC or as the "purchased in an RP scene and with character gold mount". It was never a free "here's a new addition to the party, his name is steve, he's loyal to me."
True, its not a summoning spell.
But what if youre starting at level 8? Then you take it before you make your character.
First of all i have to say that i ban leadership for my games, along with antagonize.
The reasons i can think for someone not taking it are those:
1) It doesn't fit in the build (some builds require everyone feat slot).
2) You don't want to do the work.
3) You don't want to slow combat.
4) You don't want to make the party more powerful.
I allow my players to take the leadership feat for their PCs. I find it enables them to play the PC they want and still fill in gaps that might be missing in the party mix. In one game I run (3.5), there are 6 (sometimes 7) players, 2 true cohorts from leadership, 3 cohort-like knights from a deck of many things, a shadow companion, and an animal companion.
I let the players play their cohorts in combat. The assumption I make is that they should be able to cooperate closely together. I handle the cohort's role playing with his boss and the rest of the party.
The general expectation around the table is that the PC in charge of the cohort is responsible for the cohort's equipment and upkeep. Being at least 2 levels lower and needing to spread equipment shares between two people can leave cohorts a bit brittle in some of the stand-up fights the PCs get into. I'm waiting to see how the PCs try to make use of them when they try to invade the Hall of the Fire Giant King (next adventure in store for them). The shadow should do pretty well, being incorporeal, but he consumed so much strength from the frost giants that he's fattened up and how appears to be a "thick" shadow. Some of the other ones... have their challenge cut out for them.
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Why would anyone *NOT* Take leadership, if they are allowed?
Because if you're nice to NPCs, sometimes they'll be your buddies FOR FREE!! No feat required!!
I have played AD&D since '86 and 3rd edition/3.5/Pathfinder since its introduction. I have NEVER taken the leadership feat, or (in earlier editions) hired a henchman. Why?
I am a hero. I don't need someone to shore up my weaknesses and share the glory. My PARTY already does that. I never liked the idea of gaining followers and having to care and provide for them (the little free-loading weaklings!).
Besides, in ALL of the games that I have ever participated since 3rd edition was introduced, the DM has been the one who made your cohorts and your followers--I have NEVER seen a player custom build their cohorts in the manner that so many people on these boards suggest is happening in day-to-day games.
No sir. Leadership is not something I would spend a precious feat slot on.
Master Arminas
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I am a hero. I don't need someone to shore up my weaknesses and share the glory. My PARTY already does that. I never liked the idea of gaining followers and having to care and provide for them (the little free-loading weaklings!).
See, this doesn't quite make sense to me. I see the cohort as a Party member, but unlike the other player's characters, I am 100% certain of the cohort's loyalty. - The only character I can be 100% certain does not have ulterior motives, and the only character who mechanically *Can't* betray me. That sort of loyalty has a value, not just the mechanical use of the cohort.
Additionally, if you took a monstrous cohort, you don't need to go in on gear.
Finally, one of my favorite character archetypes doesn't usually get much support, and I think I'm currently using the only way you can do it in pathfinder: The Packmaster/Kennelmaster.
A character who generally cares more for beasts than other people, and, say: "Leads a pack of Wolves" or dogs. Its basically a concept that needs at least 3 cohorts.
Your main character directs and fights alongside the beasts.
Besides, in ALL of the games that I have ever participated since 3rd edition was introduced, the DM has been the one who made your cohorts and your followers--I have NEVER seen a player custom build their cohorts in the manner that so many people on these boards suggest is happening in day-to-day games.
No sir. Leadership is not something I would spend a precious feat slot on.
In this case I'd say it depends on if the GM makes an NPC that fits the role youre attempting to fill by taking leadership. In my case, a CR 7 wolf creature. I'd have been perfectly happy with a GM built equivalent, or an advanced monster, or maybe even a winter wolf, if the GM had required it.
However if the next session he showed up with a gnome basketweaver, I'd get myself a new GM, because this GM's goal is clearly to mess with his players.
...Additionally, if you took a monstrous cohort, you don't need to go in on gear...
I've always found that even monsterous cohorts need at least semi level appropriate gear. Their AC is usually low. They usually have at least 1 if not 2 really bad saves (letting your cohort get dominated and beat on you really sux). Many can't get past any DR (lots of low damage attacks). If they have much in the way of special abilities, they seem to have really low HP for thier level equivalent.
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I propose a Master Summoner who takes Leadership and gets as his cohort a Master Summoner who takes Leadership and gets as her cohort a Master Summoner ... ad nauseam.
You win any fight by attrition because once you have positioned all your Master Summoners and their summoned creatures, there is not enough space/minis left for the opponents.