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A couple of weeks ago I posted a little question with regards to the magical mysteries of the Oracle spells list – particularly at what level to consider bonus mystery spells that are either higher level (of other classes) than the Oracle has access to or spells that are different levels for different classes.
The general consensus on this board was to consider those bonus spells to be the highest level that the Oracle can cast. This is a fair interpretation of intent, but I found some … hiccups –in regards to the Haunted Oracle Curse (since it also adds spells to the Oracle’s spell list).
First off, at level 1, the haunted Oracle gains Ghost Sound and Mage Hand as bonus spells. If we follow the above logic, that would mean that these two Sorcerer / Wizard Cantrips are level 1 spells for the Haunted Oracle (which I might be able to accept, as those spells are outside of a Cleric’s usual bag of tricks, but even then hardly comparable to a Cure Light Wounds.
Now, let us consider the Gnome’s Favored Class option for Oracle, in which they can add +1/2 level to the effective level of their Oracle Curse. So, in this scenario, a level 10 Oracle, considered level 15 for the purposes of his curse, and thus would add Reverse Gravity (level 7 Wizard Spell) to his oracle spell list. If we go with the above logic once again, this particular Oracle would continue its amazing career casting Reverse Gravity as a level 5 spell.
Or, consider this, a level 1 Haunted Oracle (lets say Lore) switches careers and becomes a Bard. Upon hitting the 8th level of Bard, he is now considered level 5 for the purposes of his curse, and would add Levitate and Minor Image to his spells known (as a level 1 Oracle Spell?). Of course there are likely bigger concerns at level 19, but this same character would be casting Telekinesis as a level 1 Oracle spell as well (?) – and making quite a business making one of a kind wands of Telekinesis.
I enjoy the Oracle. I have a long standing weak spot for spontaneous casters. All the flavor of the Oracle is right on the money – but some of the finer points of the mechanics have ended up being … undefined.
Is there an official answer to this issue?
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A couple of weeks ago I posted a little question with regards to the magical mysteries of the Oracle spells list – particularly at what level to consider bonus mystery spells that are either higher level (of other classes) than the Oracle has access to or spells that are different levels for different classes.
The general consensus on this board was to consider those bonus spells to be the highest level that the Oracle can cast. This is a fair interpretation of intent, but I found some … hiccups –in regards to the Haunted Oracle Curse (since it also adds spells to the Oracle’s spell list).
First off, at level 1, the haunted Oracle gains Ghost Sound and Mage Hand as bonus spells. If we follow the above logic, that would mean that these two Sorcerer / Wizard Cantrips are level 1 spells for the Haunted Oracle (which I might be able to accept, as those spells are outside of a Cleric’s usual bag of tricks, but even then hardly comparable to a Cure Light Wounds.
Now, let us consider the Gnome’s Favored Class option for Oracle, in which they can add +1/2 level to the effective level of their Oracle Curse. So, in this scenario, a level 10 Oracle, considered level 15 for the purposes of his curse, and thus would add Reverse Gravity (level 7 Wizard Spell) to his oracle spell list. If we go with the above logic once again, this particular Oracle would continue its amazing career casting Reverse Gravity as a level 5 spell.
Or, consider this, a level 1 Haunted Oracle (lets say Lore) switches careers and becomes a Bard. Upon hitting the 8th level of Bard, he is now considered level 5 for the purposes of his curse, and would add Levitate and Minor Image to his spells known (as a level 1 Oracle Spell?). Of course there are likely bigger concerns at level 19, but this same character would be casting Telekinesis as a level 1 Oracle spell as well (?) – and making quite a business making one of a kind wands of Telekinesis.
I enjoy the Oracle. I have a long standing weak spot for spontaneous casters. All the...
I think you just need to shift your understanding very slightly - bonus spells should be the highest level a normal, single classed oracle would be able to cast. That solves all of your problems except the one with cantrips.
True - and I know this really only impacts the Haunted Oracle, but I am not sure there is much that is game changing about a Gnomish Oracle gaining Telekinesis as a level 3 Spell. At the cost of at least 6 HPs or Skill Points.
The haunted Spells are not super wow game breakers.
I'd say that just because you gain it as a bonus spell doesn't mean you have any spell slots to cast it. It would, however, now be on your spell list, so you could use it in spell-trigger form.
I've never considered this. When I've played the Haunted Oracle we just assumed that the bonus spells (mage hand, mirror image, reverse gravity, etc.) were of the level you would find them on a class that gets them regularly. So mage had would be 0th level, and so on and so forth. It hasn't caused any problems at our table.
the oracle seems to be built about with a sorcserer class in mind (what with added spells from mystey\bloodline at same levels. gaining new power of spell levels at same levels and amount of spells to cast each day. known spells etc)
well lets cut these questions of yours into parts:
1- "The general consensus on this board was to consider those bonus spells to be the highest level that the Oracle can cast. This is a fair interpretation of intent, but I found some … hiccups –in regards to the Haunted Oracle Curse (since it also adds spells to the Oracle’s spell list)."
1-beside the haunted curse the normal spells you get are like the sourcerer bonus spells from bloodline. they each go to the spell level that was last opend to you(i would put that as the last level you got a cure\cause wound. but power level 9 doesn't have any).
2- "Or, consider this, a level 1 Haunted Oracle (lets say Lore) switches careers and becomes a Bard. Upon hitting the 8th level of Bard, he is now considered level 5 for the purposes of his curse, and would add Levitate and Minor Image to his spells known (as a level 1 Oracle Spell?)."
2- if he took oracle as fevord class and then took levels in bard. why should he even get the oracle favored class bonus? you need to take a level in the fevord class to gain the bonus. that is why a half elf who get to pick 2 is off better (if you get the favord class bonus on no matter what actual class the level you took is in,the half elf racial power of multi-talanted is nulled).
in your case he would be a level 1\8 oracle\bard with 1 level of favored class oracle bonus as 0.5 to his oracle curse level. not very effective.
3- now haunted curse is not much of a probelm. most of the spells there have the same spell level for all caster's lists who get them - 0 for the first pair, 2 for the second pair and 5 for telekinesis.and these spells are gained at levels a normal sourcerer would get them. the problem is with reverse gravity as it is a droid level 7 spell and a mage level 8. AND the level mantioned is 15. not 14 who would have been optiaml in case the droid is the right one and 7th level nor 16 which would have made sense as a sourcerer. should it have been a level 16 power i would have instantly say it is 8th level spell . but since all the other seplls the huanted gives are castable when he gets them, id have to put that as a level 7 spell( and maybe the reason he get it at level 15 and not level 14 like the other spells is to balance the fact that normal sorcerer would cast it as a level 8 spell)
4- as for a gnome increasing his oracle caster for the curse powers. most other curses powers that don't give spells are just gained earlier.
the other hounted powers as well. BUT the fact that he gain a spell to his spell list earlier doesn't mean he can cast it. he should get it as a spell leveled as the spell a normal hounted oracle of same level overall level get it(if he count as a 4th level oracle he get it at the same spell level as said oracle.) he can't cast it before he can cast spells of said level tho.this should work like the cure\cause spells the oracle get.he gain them when he is able to cast spells of said level.
(the reason i didn't use this logic in the revorse gravity spell is simple. that spell is given at an "early" level for sorcerer in the curse itself. it is not gained earlier by an effect from a nother srouce,like a racial power, so it should have worked out from the start, not as after-process.)