well after my paladin's career was cut short due to a sinking boat, i decided to make a magus for my next pfs character.
Elf magus 1
str 11 (+0)
dex 19 (+4)
con 12 (+1)
int 16 (+3)
wis 10 (+0)
cha 7 (-2)
hp 10
traits: magical lineage(shocking grasp)
insider knowledge (+1 diplomacy class skill)
3. spell shield
6. arcane accuracy
9. spell blending
12. accurate strike/critical strike
1. weapon finesse
3. dervish dance
5. spell penetration
5. extra arcane pool
7. intensify spell
9. greater spell penetration
11.improved critical (scimitar)
11.?
diplomacy 3
knowledge(arcana) 7
perception 3
perform(dance) -1
spellcraft 7
spells for today
-0
acid splash, detect magic/read magic, light
-1
shield, shocking grasp
if other fighters, ill go archer and prepare reduce person
spells
lvl 1
color spray
ray of enfeeblement
reduce person
shield
shocking grasp
true strike
rapier
shortbow
Arrows(20)
studded leather
Scrolls burning hands and infernal healing
Im going for the dervish build. At level three im going to swap the rapier for a scimitar. Im not sure if i should get arcane shield or accuracy first. Im a little concerned about ac with low hp, but also afraid im going to miss a lot taking the -2 from spell combat.
One of my first purchases is going to mithral chain shirt to free up weight, loose armor penalties, and allow more dex at higher levels. Until then i hope to use the bow more than my sword.
Any thoughts or glaring weakness?
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Well it does look like you took most of the standard dervish dance build but tacked on a few sub-optimal choices.
Spell shield is an expensive option for very little gain at your level, (if you are worried about your AC use the actual shield spell much cheaper and lasts 10 times as long)
Arcane Accuracy should always be your first arcana if you intend to actually hit your opponents. That +Int bonus to hit is godly at low levels.
Spell Penetration at 5th is a bad placement. The number of challenges with SR (especially in PFS) is extremely low before tier 9-11 so that feat won't give you anything for several levels. I'd wait to take it until you actually start encountering SR critters (and at that point I'd just use different types of spells instead, SR is usually a high level option and PFS isn't.)
Acid Splash is a waste, take Arcane Mark instead so you can spell combat every round. Also look into taking Vanish and Warding Weapon, they are far more useful for positioning, defense and spell casting.
Lastly ask yourself this question, Do I want to be a nova character and only be good for 1-2 fights a day or do I want to be able to contribute for every challenge/feat/etc.
The Dervish dancer is really good at annihilating 1-2 big challenge each day but is really lacking in staying power since it always has lower HP's, spells per day, total spells known and Concentration skills.
PFS scenarios tend to be 1 long adventuring day and you may find yourself out of gas after the first encounter with this build. Now if you can handle being stingy with your abilities until the big fight you'll be great, just learn to pace yourself.
I went hexcrafter because I hate holding back on every fight.
thanks for the warning about spell shield and spell penetration.
i was going to switch to arcane mark or light for spell combat and spell strike at level two. at level one without spellstrike, neither would offer damage would they?
I would suggest selecting mnemonic enhancer as a spell blending spell that the Magus can get good use out of at higher levels in general and allows more consistent damage output for your shocking grasp focused build specifically.
At lower levels you might want to look at opening volley to provide a +4 bonus to hit on your melee attack. It will require you to think about your next round actions constantly to make optimum use of the feat so your YMMV.
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thanks for the warning about spell shield and spell penetration.
i was going to switch to arcane mark or light for spell combat and spell strike at level two. at level one without spellstrike, neither would offer damage would they?
No bonus damage but there are much better choices, I prefer Daze myself. Spell combat it and every round your target has to save or stand there doing nothing for a round. Great for upping your survivability.
The issue with Acid Splash is it's a ranged touch spell and you are a melee character. You will get at best 1 round out of it before you are in melee and if you try to use it then you get an AoO every time you cast it.
@Narrater, Opening Volley is a horrible waste of a feat. To get any use out of it he'll have to be constantly jumping out of melee range to rattle off a 1D3 acid splash just to get a +4 on 1 hit the following round.
Better to stay toe to toe and spell combat/spellstrike for 2D6+2x (eventually getting arcane accuracy for a +int on EVERY attack that round) and save his feats for something reliable.
so acid splash would provoke since it is a ranged touch, but daze would not even though it is ranged, but requires no roll to hit? ok. i forgot that acid splash would provoke. even though daze only works once on a creature per minute, if it lands no action for a round is nice.
is there a rule that blocks it? i was under the impression that in pfs, gms couldnt block stuff just because they think its cheese...not like i have an animal companion using a gun or something. im pointing out flaws in my enemy's defenses...or calling where my next blow lands.
taking a -2 on my attacks doesnt seem that cheesy for an extra attack...no different than two weapon fighting, instead of another sword im attacking with the same sword and spell. plus i have to make a check to even cast the spell. if instead i picked up another sword, i get the free attack without the extra check.
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I don't allow the Arcane Mark cheese routine as a PFS judge. Others might feel the same way, so I wouldn't rely on it. I would also suggest taking your dex down one point and buff your con and Str with the points that are freed up.
In your home games you are perfectly within your rights to disallow Arcane Mark spellstriking, however in PFS it is completely RAW and YOU are breaking the rules by disallowing it. Not knocking on you but I hear this come up on the boards so much even though in pfs RAW is the only law. Judges aren't allowed to make this ruling and I hate arguing about it.
I tend to go Hexcrafter though, it lets me spam Brand instead and actually do damage with the spell as well. It really is the exact same spell but it does a point of damage instead of carving dirty words on your target.
@HowlingWolf, yeah, since their is no attack roll the caster just needs to succeed on a casting defensively check to avoid provoking. Well that or a 5'step and cast.
At lower levels the Magus won't have multiple attacks using your 5 foot step between your ranged touch and attack actions to get that +4 is certainly a viable tactic.
For example your in melee combat use your spell combat to attack and cast ray of frost. Role to cast defensively. strike with your melee make your 5' step use ranged touch. Next round either the enemy steps up to you to stay in melee or he moves away at the sweet spot when you have spell strike as well it is still possible to make use of your 2d6+2x but now at a higher to hit. This is also assuming your already in melee if you start out at range shoot as a standard action move in to attack next round with the bonus. You could charge to get that +2 but it also opens you up by providing your enemies a +2 to hit you. When facing multiple opponents the feat becomes even better.
I would also like to point out you don't have unlimited uses of your 1st level 2nd level etc spells you can however spam your cantrips to make use of this extra +4 to hit all day long. They are your saving grace at lower levels.
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At lower levels the Magus won't have multiple attacks using your 5 foot step between your ranged touch and attack actions to get that +4 is certainly a viable tactic.
For example your in melee combat use your spell combat to attack and cast ray of frost. Role to cast defensively. strike with your melee make your 5' step use ranged touch. Next round either the enemy steps up to you to stay in melee or he moves away at the sweet spot when you have spell strike as well it is still possible to make use of your 2d6+2x but now at a higher to hit. This is also assuming your already in melee if you start out at range shoot as a standard action move in to attack next round with the bonus. You could charge to get that +2 but it also opens you up by providing your enemies a +2 to hit you. When facing multiple opponents the feat becomes even better.
I would also like to point out you don't have unlimited uses of your 1st level 2nd level etc spells you can however spam your cantrips to make use of this extra +4 to hit all day long. They are your saving grace at lower levels.
If you're only going to play a 1st level game this would be a useful trick. As soon as you hit 2nd level you get spell strike and you start spamming Arcane Mark/Brand (both zero level spells) and getting 2 melee attacks each round for higher damage & higher crit chance.
Your recommendation is to use one of the very few feats a magus on a trick that's only valuable at at 1st level and can only be used inside of charge range AND will be replaced at 3rd level with Arcane Accuracy which gives the same bonus but on every attack and doesn't require you to worry about provoking AoO's????
Seems sub-optimal for this character.
Judges are definitely allowed to make this rulling as Arcane Mark isn't an attack spell and it's been clearly stated that it was not intended to give a magus free two weapon fighting at first level without resource expenditure.
Actually no they can't, remember PFS is a separate system and functions under the RAW rules. Plus the only one who can errata how RAW works in PFS is the PFS Coordinator Michael Brock. Until he updates the errata on how this ability works in PFS you aren't authorized to overrule RAW on this.
Arcane Mark has no attack roll listed so you'd have to ask the GM if you could deliver it as an attack. He says no and that's that. The PFS GM isn't changing the rules, he's just not allowing you to use a non-attack spell as an attack spell, which is fine.
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well after my paladin's career was cut short due to a sinking boat, i decided to make a magus for my next pfs character.
Any thoughts or glaring weakness?
Nothing that hasn't already been said here. You may find some useful advice here.
As for the arcane mark/spellstrike debate, here's my thoughts. While there's nothing in the RAW preventing this, we have to remember the ever important spirit of the rules. Does it make sense for your spell/sword dual wielding to be wielding a spell each round? Flavor wise, yes. But in the spirit of the rules I think that we can all realize that they likely didn't intend the Magus to be played that way, and if they did, I wouldn't play that way.
Your magus can be zorro, mine will be cool.
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Arcane Mark has no attack roll listed so you'd have to ask the GM if you could deliver it as an attack. He says no and that's that. The PFS GM isn't changing the rules, he's just not allowing you to use a non-attack spell as an attack spell, which is fine.
There is absolutely nothing under the spellstrike description saying ANYTHING about spells needing an attack roll.
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack.
The only requirement listed is that it needs to be a spell with the range of touch. Anything else you want to require from it is a house rule and has no place in PFS.
Sadly I've read through that section of the PHB again in detail and it looks like it does apply to Arcane Mark, so I guess I have to go with it (I only play PFS). It bugs me, but better I came across it here than mid game as my natural inclination was to say no.
Once a Magus gets spell recall he can do it pretty much all the time with 1st level spells anyway.
Judges are definitely allowed to make this rulling as Arcane Mark isn't an attack spell and it's been clearly stated that it was not intended to give a magus free two weapon fighting at first level without resource expenditure.I don't allow the Arcane Mark cheese routine as a PFS judge. Others might feel the same way, so I wouldn't rely on it. I would also suggest taking your dex down one point and buff your con and Str with the points that are freed up.In your home games you are perfectly within your rights to disallow Arcane Mark spellstriking, however in PFS it is completely RAW and YOU are breaking the rules by disallowing it. Not knocking on you but I hear this come up on the boards so much even though in pfs RAW is the only law. Judges aren't allowed to make this ruling and I hate arguing about it.
I would like to see a link to where this is so clearly stated.
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James Jacobs has said it in his 'Ask James Jacobs' thread (I found it earlier today searching for other relevant posts on the subject).
That said, for all of his Pathfinder 'street cred', James is not a rules developer and has been known to get rules wrong.
would it make people feel better if i used light instead? it has a range of touch too. i guess it comes down to marking your kills or lighting up targets for the rest of the party.
If you're only going to play a 1st level game this would be a useful trick. As soon as you hit 2nd level you get spell strike and you start spamming Arcane Mark/Brand (both zero level spells) and getting 2 melee attacks each round for higher damage & higher crit chance.Your recommendation is to use one of the very few feats a magus on a trick that's only valuable at at 1st level and can only be used inside of charge range AND will be replaced at 3rd level with Arcane Accuracy which gives the same bonus but on every attack and doesn't require you to worry about provoking AoO's????
Seems sub-optimal for this character.
You are assuming that using spellstrike is the best thing to use every single round. Some times improving your ability to hit is a better option and before you say you will use Arcane accuracy to improve your ability to hit I would like to remind you that it is a limited resource.
What this means is that I can potentially spam my +4 reliably in every battle multiple times while you can use Arcane accuracy maybe 5 or 6 times in a day not counting what you would use to enhance your weapon. you would also have to have at least an 18 in your intelligence score to match the +4 this feat provides.
Also looking at multiple attacks saying that this feat is useless at 2nd level isn't really true. When you cast defensively at the first few levels their is close to a 50/50 chance you loose the spell meaning you also loose the extra attack that it would generate. I agree that at higher levels once you reach about 8th level and have a true iterative attack its usefulness will drop off somewhat but it can still allow you to have a chance against harder to hit targets but that is nearly half of your possible adventuring career.
It seems to me we are looking at the problem of being able to hit difficult targets in different ways.
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If you're only going to play a 1st level game this would be a useful trick. As soon as you hit 2nd level you get spell strike and you start spamming Arcane Mark/Brand (both zero level spells) and getting 2 melee attacks each round for higher damage & higher crit chance.Your recommendation is to use one of the very few feats a magus on a trick that's only valuable at at 1st level and can only be used inside of charge range AND will be replaced at 3rd level with Arcane Accuracy which gives the same bonus but on every attack and doesn't require you to worry about provoking AoO's????
Seems sub-optimal for this character.
You are assuming that using spellstrike is the best thing to use every single round. Some times improving your ability to hit is a better option and before you say you will use Arcane accuracy to improve your ability to hit I would like to remind you that it is a limited resource.
What this means is that I can potentially spam my +4 reliably in every battle multiple times while you can use Arcane accuracy maybe 5 or 6 times in a day not counting what you would use to enhance your weapon. you would also have to have at least an 18 in your intelligence score to match the +4 this feat provides.
Also looking at multiple attacks saying that this feat is useless at 2nd level isn't really true. When you cast defensively at the first few levels their is close to a 50/50 chance you loose the spell meaning you also loose the extra attack that it would generate. I agree that at higher levels once you reach about 8th level and have a true iterative attack its usefulness will drop off somewhat but it can still allow you to have a chance against harder to hit targets and that is nearly half of your possible adventuring career.
It seems to me we are looking at the problem of being able to hit difficult targets in different ways.
Actually I am not looking at HITTING the target at all, I'm referring to trying to KILL the target. Hitting a target is easy, hitting it hard enough and often enough to kill it is what's important here.
Your method gets 1 real attack every other round and relies on them to actually chase you around the flagpole. Any intelligent foe will grasp that tactic after the first time the step into that hit.My recommendation hits it, HARD, every round and with the Nova potential of the Magus kills it in 1-2 rounds. This is the definition of what a Dervish Dancer build does, it focuses on doing as much damage as possible as quickly as possible so you don't have to spend any more resources then necessary to do it.
Plus if you haven't figured out how to avoid ever needing to cast defensively past 2nd level there are bigger problems at stake here.
I can see that you are not willing to listen to any argument that does not fit your narrow view of things so I will simply save my self the carpel tunnel Mathwei ap Niall and agree to disagree
Your welcome Sobchak I would love to see some different builds out there that goes a different route from the set conventional wisdom.
this character is for pfs, so my group and gm will change each game.
interesting. what spells would you pick up with spell blending?
i tried finding a non magical trait for upping concentration, but didn't see one.
There are several regional feats that provide concentration bonuses but I am not sure if they would be PFS legal check out
archives of Nethys
it is a great resource. The page linked provides a description of many traits and where they originated so you can check its validity in PFS play.
well, looks like i have a few decisions to make. thanks for the advice.
what is the best armor to aim for? i figure mithral chain shirt for the lower levels. in mid to higher levels, i would like to get either an elven chain or mithral breastplate. Celestial armor would be great, but very pricey.
spellstrike to deliver the mark, thus giving you a second attack with your weapon.