Ok, so I have a few questions here.
1. How do the feats Bashing Finish and Bull Rush Strike interact?
Bashing Finish: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon, you can make a shield bash attack against the same target using the same bonus as a free action.
Bull Rush Strike: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon, you can make a shield bash attack against the same target using the same bonus as a free action.
2. If fighting with a heavy shield (one handed weapon) in your off hand and a one handed weapon in your other hand what would your penalties to attack in each hand be when using the Shield Master feat?
Shield Master: You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield’s enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls made with the shield as if it were a weapon enhancement bonus.
3. Is it possible within the RAW for one to fight with two shields using Two Weapon Fighting and bash with each of them in a full attack?
I have a feeling that the answer to this is yes but a line has been pointed out to me in the Core Rule Book (page 152, I couldn't find it in the PRD) that states you can only shield bash with your off-hand. So if that is true does that mean that one would not be able to switch their mainhand weapon to their "off hand" and their shield to their "main hand" and then perform the bash?
Ooops, nevermind on question 3. I think. Well, anyway I found this in the FAQ:
If I make a shield bash (page 152), does it always have to be an off-hand attack?
The text for a shield bash assumes you're making a bash as an off-hand attack, but you don't have to. You can, for example, just make a shield bash attack (at your normal, main-hand attack bonus) or shield bash with your main hand and attack with a sword in your off-hand.
Update: Page 152—In the Shield Bash Attacks section, in the first sentence, delete “using it as an off-hand weapon.”
—Sean K Reynolds, 08/31/11
Nothin on this? It is sorta important to me for a build I had in mind.
I had the text wrong on Bull Rush Strike in my first post. I think the copy didn't work when I copied the second bit of text and accidentally just reposted the first text. I'd like to repost it here since I can't edit my original post:
Bull Rush Strike: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee attack, you can push your opponent back, in addition to the normal damage dealt by the attack. If your confirmation roll exceeds your opponent’s CMD, you may push your opponent back as if from the bull rush combat maneuver. You do not need to move with the target if successful. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Also, I feel I left an important detail out. The other item to be added to this equation is if the character has the Shield Slam feat as well:
Shield Slam: Any opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack, substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check (see Combat). This bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Opponents who cannot move back due to a wall or other surface are knocked prone after moving the maximum possible distance. You may choose to move with your target if you are able to take a 5-foot step or to spend an action to move this turn.
And again for reference:
Bashing Finish: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon, you can make a shield bash attack against the same target using the same bonus as a free action.
So say I score a critical hit with my weapon triggering Bashing Finish so that I can make a shield bash which triggers Shield Slam making that attack also a bull rush. That part is easy. Now add in Bull Rush Strike which triggered at the same time as Bashing Finish. So what happens with the Bull Rush Strike? Does my opponent get double bull rushed?
To further complicate things I understand that if I do this on my turn then I can choose to move with my target or even to just 5' step along with them. But what if it happens out of turn by being triggered by an AoO? Shield Slam says I can move if I have movement to spend "this turn". What does that mean when it isn't my turn? Am I not able to move with them as I have no movement when it isn't my turn (aside from feats like Step Up or something perhaps?)? Bull Rush Strike doesn't have this wording and says that it functions like a normal bull rush. It says that I don't have to move with them, but that implies that I still can if I so choose. Does that mean I can move outside of my turn when I use it? Does this affect my movement on my turn? If I do choose to move with my target does the movement in doing so provoke AoOs (I know that the action itself doesn't, but what about the movement from it?)?
1) Actually, the two are different. I'll quote them here.
Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon, you can make a shield bash attack against the same target using the same bonus as a free action.
Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee attack, you can push your opponent back, in addition to the normal damage dealt by the attack. If your confirmation roll exceeds your opponent's CMD, you may push your opponent back as if from the bull rush combat maneuver. You do not need to move with the target if successful. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
So, basically, the two feats would allow you to make two attacks after a critical hit. So, let's say you are wielding a sword and a shield and you score a crit with your sword. If you have both feats, you can make a shield bash attack (usually just deals some damage unless you have shield slam) and get a free bull rush attempt.
The bull rush attempt from Bull Rush Strike is based on your confirmation roll vs their CMD, instead of a normal CMB vs CMD roll, and thus does not benefit from things like Improved Bull Rush and take a penalty for being Large instead of a bonus, but it benefits from Critical Focus. It's an odd thing, but those are the rules.
EDIT: Since you mentioned having shield slam (and why wouldn't you have this for this build), you would be allowed to make two bull rush attempts provided your opponent was still in range to bull rush. While both attacks are free actions, they don't occur simultaneously. So, you'd basically get two attempts to bull rush your opponent. The shield slam bull rush would be based on the attack roll (not the confirmation roll), which means that it gains all the normal bonuses to the attack roll (such as the enhancement bonus on the weapon), but not things like Improved Bull Rush, which add to Bull Rush attempts.
2) I think this was clarified in an FAQ or maybe just by one of the Devs, but essentially you take the normal TWF penalties for the sword but no TWF for the shield. If you have the feat for Two Weapon Fighting (which is a pre-requisite for lots of the shield fighting feats anyway), you would take a -4 penalty for your sword and no penalty for your shield. The shield is still a one-handed weapon, which determines the penalties for both hands. The feat just reduces the penalty for the shield.
If you choose to make your shield your main weapon, you would take a -4 for a one-handed off-hand weapon, and a -2 if you opted to go with a light off-hand weapon. In either case, your shield would take no penalty.
1. I posted the wrong wording. My fault. Please read my latest post.
2. Ok. Now what if both of the weapons are heavy shields?
3. Nicos, I'm in that thread quiet a bit. I also posted after my initial post saying I found the answer to it already. Thank you for re-pointing it out though.
Mauril, thanks for the post. Yeah, I caught my mistake. Please see my repost as it includes the missing bit that you already guessed: shield slam. If you don't mind could you please repost your conclusion with that feat also being considered?
Also, if you dont mind, please re-answer 2 considering both weapons are shields.
You ninja'd me with an edit. Which in turn caused me to edit my post.
If both weapons are heavy shields, then you take no penalties to the attack rolls for either weapon, since both weapons are shields and thus fall under this feat.
To respond to the question you asked at the end of the previous post:
The current wording on the PRD about Bull Rush states, "You can move with the target if you wish but you must have the available movement to do so." I take this to mean that if you could not normally move, either because you have expended your total movement on your turn or because you are in a situation where you could not normally move, you don't move with your target. Barring a specific feat or ability, you cannot move when it is not your turn. Basically, the wording of Shield Slam adds an unnecessary restriction since you really can't move much outside of your own turn on a bull rush anyway.
By "no penalties" do you mean even the normal penalties for TWF? I think that can't be right at least. Wouldn't it at least be -2/-2? Or even -0/-2?
Also with movement out of turn is anyone aware of any ability that would allow you to move with your target out of turn? I'm not so sure Step Up would do it due to the wording of that feat.
By no penalties, I mean no penalties. The feat says that you take no penalties on the shield when two weapon fighting with a shield. The standard consensus is that you only take the TWF penalty on your non-shield weapon. Since you have no non-shield weapon, you take no penalties. Obviously this is probably not the RAI, but it is the RAW.