I am really trying to understand how empower spell works so here are my questions:
1) 10th level evoker casts an empowered fireball, the spell normally deals 10d6+5 but what happens now that it's empowered?
2) 10th level evoker/1st level crossblooded (red dragon/primal fire) sorcerer casts an empowered fireball, the spell normally deals 10d6+25 but what happens now that it's empowered?
Diced based varibility is empowered. Everthing else such as static bonuses from magic missile or bonuses based on caster level or items are not.
Diced based varibility is empowered. Everthing else such as static bonuses from magic missile or bonuses based on caster level or items are not.
Nope, they went ahead and changed this back to the same way it worked in 3.5
Q: Empower Spell (page 122): If I use Empower Spell on a spell that has a die roll with a numerical bonus (such as cure moderate wounds), does the feat affect the numerical bonus?
A: (Official Update 7/8/11) Yes. For example, if you empower cure moderate wounds, the +50% from the feat applies to the 2d8 and to the level-based bonus. [source]
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Diced based varibility is empowered. Everthing else such as static bonuses from magic missile or bonuses based on caster level or items are not.
The FAQ has clarified that this is not the case.
Empower Spell (page 122): If I use Empower Spell on a spell that has a die roll with a numerical bonus (such as cure moderate wounds), does the feat affect the numerical bonus?
Yes. For example, if you empower cure moderate wounds, the +50% from the feat applies to the 2d8 and to the level-based bonus.
—Sean K Reynolds, 07/08/11
I think there's another issue here--when the spell itself has a static value in it, I think we all agree that it gets increased. But in this case, we're not talking about that, we're talking about a damage bonus added to spell from class features.
Further, Intense Spells, the Evocation School special ability, specifically mentions that Empower does not work with it:
"Whenever you cast an evocation spell that deals hit point damage, add 1/2 your wizard level to the damage (minimum +1). This bonus only applies once to a spell, not once per missile or ray, and cannot be split between multiple missiles or rays. This bonus damage is not increased by Empower Spell or similar effects." (Emphasis mine)
The Draconic/Primal Bloodlines' Arcana are a little less clear:
"Whenever you cast a spell with an energy descriptor that matches your [dragon/elemental] bloodline’s energy type, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled."
Does that get empowered? According to the text of Empower Spell:
"Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half including bonuses to those dice rolls." (Emphasis mine)
So, well, yes, it does.
To answer your specific questions:
1) 10th level evoker casts an empowered fireball, the spell normally deals 10d6+5 but what happens now that it's empowered?
15d6+5
2) 10th level evoker/1st level crossblooded (red dragon/primal fire) sorcerer casts an empowered fireball, the spell normally deals 10d6+25 but what happens now that it's empowered?
15d6+35
1) 10th level evoker casts an empowered fireball, the spell normally deals 10d6+5 but what happens now that it's empowered?15d6+5
2) 10th level evoker/1st level crossblooded (red dragon/primal fire) sorcerer casts an empowered fireball, the spell normally deals 10d6+25 but what happens now that it's empowered?15d6+35
Actually it would be (1.5*10d6)+5 in the first case and (1.5*10d6+20)+5 in the second.
the reason you don't just want to assign the extra dice (even though the average works out the same in the end) is because spells are not always cast with even numbers of damage dice (an empowered 7 die fireball deals 1.5*7d6, for instance, not 10d6+1d3).
Actually it would be (1.5*10d6)+5 in the first case and (1.5*10d6+20)+5 in the second.
the reason you don't just want to assign the extra dice (even though the average works out the same in the end) is because spells are not always cast with even numbers of damage dice (an empowered 7 die fireball deals 1.5*7d6, for instance, not 10d6+1d3).
The majority of my experience with Empower Spell comes from 3.5, and it was officially done (via errata) by actually rolling 50% more dice (rounded down for odd numbers of initial dice).
I did not really think about it being any different in Pathfinder, but I suppose since it was built off of the SRD, which did not always include all the clarifying text and errata and whatnot, that it could be done differently.
I wonder, has this ever been clarified by the developers? Did they want to go by what the 3.5 developers claimed they intended, or change it to an actual multiplication?
Really? where in the 3.5 errata would that be? it is not in the 'updated' errata released in Feb 2006, nor in the FAQ anyplace that I could find. Doing it that way (50% more dice rounded down for odd numbers) would mean that empowering a magic missile, cure light wounds, or any other spell that did one die of damage would have no effect on the spell, which I am positive isn't correct.
Really? where in the 3.5 errata would that be? it is not in the 'updated' errata released in Feb 2006, nor in the FAQ anyplace that I could find.
I remembered doing it that way and that it was the correct way, so I searched for it to see why I thought that way and found this post, so I said, "ok, case closed, this guy must be correct," because, you know, it was plausible and confirmed what I already thought.
But, yeah, it's not from errata, and I actually can't find anywhere that confirms this. I looked in my PHB 3.5, and it actually uses Magic Missile as an example and tells you to literally multiply.
So, anyway, after digging, it turns out we did it this way because of the 3.0 PHB which did not contain such an example, and the logical chain that goes something like this:
"Well, if a crit with a great axe deals 3d12 rather than (1d12)x3:, then obviously an Empowered Fireball that normally does 10d6 should deal 15d6, rather than (10d6)x1.5."
So, weird.
Thank you all.