as i understand and read this spell and spell combate and spellstrike the fallowing would occure for a magus threw level 7
round one
use spell combat and spellstrike
-2 melee attack cast chill touch (check) deliver via -2 melee
strike
round two
use spellstrike to deliver secound charge
repeat round two till one charge left
last round deliver last charge of chill touch via spell combate
-2 to that attack and cast next chill touch (check)
with spell strike.... repeat?
do i have that right
at level 8 would it not go like
round one
use spell combate and spellstrike
-2 melee / -2 melee / cast chill touch (check) deliver via -2
melee strike
round two using full attack action with spell strike
melee attack and chill touch charge at normal att bns /
secound melee attack and another chill touch charge
thrid round same fourth round same
fifth round spell combate and spellstrike
last melee with chill touch at -2 and then new melee delivered
spell via spell strike
or at any time before use spell strike to cast a new spell and end
chill chain
is this wrong or right
Can you reformat this?
as i understand and read this spell and spell combate and spellstrike the fallowing would occure for a magus threw level 7
(round one)
[use spell combat and spellstrike]
-2 melee attack / cast chill touch (check) deliver via -2 melee
strike
(round two)
[use spellstrike]
deliver secound charge
repeat round two till one charge left
(last round)
[use spell combat and spellstrike]
deliver last charge of chill touch via spell combate
-2 to that attack / cast next chill touch (check)
with spell strike
.... repeat?
do i have that right
at level 8 would it not go like
(round one)
[use spell combate and spellstrike]
-2 melee / -2 melee / cast chill touch (check) deliver via -2
melee strike
(round two)
[using full attack action with spell strike deliery]
melee attack and chill touch charge at normal att bns /
secound melee attack and another chill touch charge
(thrid round same fourth round same)
(fifth round)
[spell combate and spellstrike]
last melee with chill touch at -2 and then new melee delivered
spell via spell strike
or at any time before use spell strike to cast a new spell and end
chill chain
is this wrong or right
I mean format so it goes all the way across the page. You can hit the preview button ahead of time. It will make people be more likely to respond.
That's not how Chill Touch works. You cast it, then use it on x enemies per level that are within melee touch range of you. It doesn't last until the all of charges are spent. In fact, Chill Touch is one of those touch spells that isn't allowed to hold a charge past one round.
i was reading on another thread that said spellstrike only counts the turn you cast the spell.... if thats so then chill touch would have to be used as if it where an off hand touch attack each round after the first as a standard action... this would make the spell worthless when placed beside shocking grasp; unless the target had er elec. but if like sub says above you get to use up as many charges as you can the first time you cast it on targets in range: does that mean you get to use spellstrike for all the attacks or just the first... i think that would be way over powered. Or does it mean you get to male one attack with spellstrike and the rest off handed
@Talandor: Yes, you can use Chill Touch up to one time per level, but it doesn't mention anything that changes the normal rules for touch attack spells. If you successfully touch something, the charge goes away. You don't get to keep making touch attacks over multiple rounds until your "one time per level" uses run out. The "one time per level" refers to the "target: creatures touched (one per level)."
@Talandor: Yes, you can use Chill Touch up to one time per level, but it doesn't mention anything that changes the normal rules for touch attack spells. If you successfully touch something, the charge goes away. You don't get to keep making touch attacks over multiple rounds until your "one time per level" uses run out. The "one time per level" refers to the "target: creatures touched (one per level)."
Please show me rules or FAQ stating this. As it stands there are no rules against holding the charge on such spells, and NPCs have been used in APs from what I remember that indeed use it over multiple rounds.
Here's the problem with your interpretation. A touch attack spell provides for 1(one) touch attack as a free action during the round in which the spell was cast. If the caster has to surround himself with enemies to take advantage of the spell, but can then only attack one of them, what sense does that make?
A spell with a range of touch allows you to touch up to 6 allies with it with completion of the spell, but someone who doesn't want to be touched would require a touch attack and only 1 is provided free with the casting of an offensive touch spell.
The spell extra states you can use it up to one time per level.
Where would be the sense in this if its all wasted after one touch or even round?
Chill Touch is one of the better spells because its a severe debuff over time, -1 to STR with each hit and lost save.
Rogues and ninjas can do something like that without save and on DEX or STR.
Chill Touch is a spell that you cast once to get 1 touch charge per caster level. You can deliver these touches as you wish, though remember that a held charge (which you keep until they're all burned off) discharges on anything you touch, be it friend, foe or object.
thanks everyone for their comments i feel much better about using it now. i'm going to add it to my must take spell list for magus :) ty
Chill Touch is a spell that you cast once to get 1 touch charge per caster level. You can deliver these touches as you wish, though remember that a held charge (which you keep until they're all burned off) discharges on anything you touch, be it friend, foe or object.
I agree... Though I would also add two things:
1) Held charges disappear as soon as you cast another spell.
2) The Spellstrike magus class feature is only stated as working with the 1 free melee touch attack granted by casting the spell. Therefore the Magus can deliver one charge via Spellstrike on the round he first casts Chill Touch, but there after would have to deliver the remaining charges via actual touch attacks (which would not use Spellstrike and would eat standard attacks).
Though totally unsupported by the rules (and quite possibly quite damaging to game balance) from a purely aesthetic perspective I would like to see the Magus able to deliver remaining charges through his weapon on subsequent rounds... via normal attacks (not extra attack granted by Spellstrike). But like I said, this last idea is just for aesthetic reasons and probably wouldn't balance out well.
Well, you guys can think your way, and I'll think mine. Personally, they should just rewrite the spell so there is no confusion.
Also, @meatrace: It says pretty clearly in the rules that a touch spell goes away after successfully touching something, even accidentally. That's how they work. I don't think there is a "problem" with my interpretation at all. You get one chance to successfully touch with the spell just like any other touch spell.
The spell doesn't say "rounds per level" anywhere, just targets/uses per level. To me, the "uses per level" part seems to apply directly to the "creatures per level" part, and implies that you have to touch all creatures with your free action at the same time in the same round. If you can show me anywhere that states you can actually use this spell over multiple rounds, then I'll join the crowd. But I don't feel that the line "uses per level" implies this at all.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
You get one chance to successfully touch with the spell just like any other touch spell.
Every touch spell stays until discharged, or you cast another spell. There is no limit on the number of chances you have to touch something. "You can continue to make touch attacks round after round."
The spell doesn't say "rounds per level" anywhere, just targets/uses per level. To me, the "uses per level" part seems to apply directly to the "creatures per level" part, and implies that you have to touch all creatures with your free action at the same time in the same round.
Chill Touch: "Targets - creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)"
Touch Spells in Combat: "You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll."
You do not get 10 free action attack rolls as a result of casting Chill Touch at CL 10. Instead, you obey the normal rules that you get one free touch attack as a result of casting the spell. After that, further touch attacks cost a standard action.
The only time you can touch more than one target is when the targets are willing. (IE: Teleport)
If you can show me anywhere that states you can actually use this spell over multiple rounds, then I'll join the crowd. But I don't feel that the line "uses per level" implies this at all.
You're not going to find that, the spell is not very well written. Even James Jacobs don't really know how it works. (But he supposes it works the same way we do, you get a certain number of touches, once you've used them (or cast a spell) then the spell is discharged.)
If you run it your way, nothing says it must be different targets, so a level one spell lets you touch someone ten times (at CL 10) for 10d6 plus up to 10 strength damage. For a level 1 spell! Add Elemental Touch first, that's 20d6+Str+extra in one round.
The spell is unclear, but run it your way and it's useless or completely broken. Run it the other way and it's balanced. Shocking Grasp for the big damage all at once, or Chill Touch for the little damage spread over time. Conserve spells or actions. Good stuff.
The only time you can touch more than one target is when the targets are willing. (IE: Teleport)
If you can show me anywhere that states you can actually use this spell over multiple rounds, then I'll join the crowd. But I don't feel that the line "uses per level" implies this at all.You're not going to find that, the spell is not very well written. Even James Jacobs don't really know how it works. (But he supposes it works the same way we do, you get a certain number of touches, once you've used them (or cast a spell) then the spell is discharged.)
Actually that first part is incorrect. And yes, it can be shown where in the rules it says you can touch multiple targets in the same round and specifies how it works IF the spell says you can touch targets over several rounds, which Chill Touch does not.
From the PRD under Magic, Range:
"Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action."
Thus Chill Touch allows you to touch up to 1 target per level on the round it is cast and then it is exhausted. Still a poorly written spell, but unfortunately they didn't improve the mechanic when they wrote Frostbite which reads the same way.
So really they need to either rewrite the duration to be 1 rd/lvl with the usual 1 touch per round, or faq how this works with spellstrike. With just the spell, it really isn't a big deal since the damage is small and you can only touch a few targets generally. But with Spellstrike, some interpretations say you can use your weapon for each touch and get 1 attack per level if enough targets are there. That seems outrageously effective to me. Frankly I also would errata Spellstrike so that it does not work with cantrips.
Chill Touch allows you to touch up to 1 target per level on the round it is cast and then it is exhausted.
I don't see how the rule you quoted supports that conclusion.
You get one per level, if you only use one, then the spell is not yet discharged. A touch spell that is not discharged is held, per Holding the Charge. Thus, you make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged.
Frankly I also would errata Spellstrike so that it does not work with cantrips.
Using a cantrip (and making concentration checks) to get the benefits of Two-Weapon Fighting is overpowered, but granting someone [caster level] free touch attacks in one round is fine?