Magus Advice-From a Roleplaying Perspective


Advice

Liberty's Edge

I need some advice.

when Pathfinder first started, a couple friends of mine gave me a great character idea, that I started playing, when I started into Pathfinder Chronicles. Something no one would expect...an Orc Wizard. He's a Universalist, with a Bonded Item, which is a Falchion, of course.

I am a whole-hearted Roleplayer, not a rules lawyer, or a min-maxer.

When people started asking what I was, I just answered Orc, after sharing my character sheet with the guys and gals who ran the games he's played in. At my last event, I was asked "are you a Magus?"

Crap, I missed the perfect class. I have been toying with rewriting him, but I've decided not too. He's just going to multi-class into Magus, when he hits his next level (7). This gives me a couple of options that I see.

#1 Add a one-handed weapon to my weapon, I already carry a Great Axe, and a Falchion, I figure a Bastard sword would be fine.

#2 Take Quick Draw, and figure out the mechanics of continuing to use my falchion for my primary bladed weapon.

What I need assistance is the following:

#1 What are the negative modifiers for using a Falchion as a Magus?

#2 Are there any other LEGAL work arounds?

From a roleplaying standpoint, He sees no problem with changing his "idiom" if he has too, but he'd prefer to keep using his ancestor's sword.

Thank you in Advance.
No Flames please.


Paizo thinks that Falchions are two handed weapons I'd seriously consider swapping it out for something else. I don't think that you could use one with the magus abilities according to RAW.


You can always go the Eldritch Knight Path which you would benefit a lot more now that you are a wizard.


Assuming you are ok with the major power drop of mixing spell casting classes, how do you feel about 3rd party material. In super genius' Magus options there was an arcana you could take as a magus to allow you to use 2handed weapons with the magus features.

Liberty's Edge

I'm playing this character in Pathfinder Chronicles campaign, so I can only use "legal" sources.....

I've been suggested to look at Kensai, but I'm not sure that will work because of the two-handed rule....

I'm strongly considering the Bastard Sword option..for me it's not so much as loosing power, as continuing on the path of the character. I don't care about having the "Most Powerful" wizard on the planet, but I do want the most "distinctive"...


gferguson wrote:

... He's just going to multi-class into Magus, when he hits his next level (7). This gives me a couple of options that I see.

#1 Add a one-handed weapon to my weapon, I already carry a Great Axe, and a Falchion, I figure a Bastard sword would be fine.

#2 Take Quick Draw, and figure out the mechanics of continuing to use my falchion for my primary bladed weapon.

What I need assistance is the following:

#1 What are the negative modifiers for using a Falchion as a Magus?

#2 Are there any other LEGAL work arounds?

From a roleplaying standpoint, He sees no problem with changing his "idiom" if he has too, but he'd prefer to keep using his ancestor's sword.

Spell Combat won't work with wielding a weapon two-handed and I have no idea how to wield a falchion one-handed. Spellstrike works fine with a two-handed weapon, except your Orc Magus won't be able to cast a touch spell while holding the weapon properly. Fortunately, there are strong arguments that the magus can switch his grip between casting the spell and using his weapon to spellstrike.

Quote:
Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action ...

I see two ways to juggle the falchion while using Spell Combat. The magical way is to spend half the orc's wealth to buy a Glove of Storing. If necessary, the Orc Wizard could learn Craft Wondrous Item and make the glove himself. With a Glove of Storing, as a free action he can shrink the falchion so tiny that it disappears into a pocket in the palm of the glove. Before spell combat, he shrinks the falchion away. During spell combat the gloved hand counts as the empty one for spellcasting. He wears a gauntlet on his other hand for a light melee weapon. After spell combat, he restores the falchion as a free action. Technically, the falchion stored in the Glove of Storing is still worn by the wizard, so he won't suffer the concentration penalty for separation from his bonded item.

The orcish way is to hold the falchion uselessly in one hand, cast the spell-combat spell with his other hand, and attack with a natural weapon or unarmed strike. This stretches the exact wording in the Spell Combat text, which specifies that the weapon be in a hand, but it fits the rules of two-weapon fighting, so it is mostly likely a legal option that was not worth spelling out in detail in the Spell Combat text.

Since your magus is an orc, he can take the Razortusk feat from the APG to gain a natural bite attack. That bite attack does have the disadvantage that if he wields a non-natural weapon and a natural attack in the same full attack, the natural attack automatically counts as secondary, taking a -5 to hit and losing half the Strength bonus to damage.

Or with Improved Unarmed Strike the orc magus can attack with a kick while his hands are busy. A kick does not suffer secondary attack penalties. Later your orc could consider the Boar Style feat from Ultimate Combat, an orc-favored combat style, for which Improved Unarmed Strike is a prerequisite.

Spellstrike has no empty hand requirement, but it requires casting a touch spell. I have not checked which touch spells lack somatic components, but I suspect it is none of them. So the magus needs one hand free while casting the touch spell. Hold the falchion in one hand while casting the spell. The rules for delivering the touch attack of a touch spell (Combat chapter of the CRB) allow moving between the spellcasting and the touch attack, so this gives plenty of opportunity for the magus to shift his falchion to a two-handed grip for the spellstrike attack.

Unfortunately, your orc magus won't be able to combine spell combat and spellstrike, a favorite magus trick, while wielding the falchion.

A wizard magus would have plenty of low-level spells. Both spell combat and spellstrike work with wizard-slot spells that are on the magus spell list, so your wizard magus will have plenty of opportunity to use both abilities. However, the magus suffers no chance of arcane spell failure with casting magus spells while wearing light armor, but he does suffer the usual chance of arcane spell failure while casting wizard spells, even ones from the magus spell list. Thus he might want to skip the armor and rely on the wizard's Mage Armor spell.

And this is where Kensai Magus comes in. The kensai gets Uncanny Defense, adding his intelligence to his AC under most circumstances. If your orc has Int 14 or better, this is as good as leather armor. And it stacks with Mage Armor.


You do know you have to Wield a bonded item in order to cast spells with it otherwise take massive penalties, right? With a Falchion as a bonded item you either need still spell meta-magic for all your spells with Somantic components (a lot) or eat the really unpleasant concentration check.

FAQ Arcane Bond

The falchion shouldn't only be a problem for a Magus. :/


Waltz wrote:

You do know you have to Wield a bonded item in order to cast spells with it otherwise take massive penalties, right? With a Falchion as a bonded item you either need still spell meta-magic for all your spells with Somantic components (a lot) or eat the really unpleasant concentration check.

FAQ Arcane Bond

The falchion shouldn't only be a problem for a Magus. :/

gferguson's orc has been using his falchion as a bonded weapon for six levels of wizard already, so he has solved the wielding-the-bonded-weapon problem already. But is that solution compatible with the methods of using spell combat and spellstrike?

Technically, wielding a weapon means attacking or threatening with it. Since non-magus wizards cannot cast spells and make weapon attacks in the same turn, many GMs figure that "wield" in this case means "held in hand." Holding the falchion in one hand counts as held in hand. Does gferguson's GM, like James Jacob in the unofficial FAQ, also insist that the bonded weapon be gripped properly or ready to make an attack of opportunity?

Grand Lodge

Mathmuse wrote:


gferguson's orc has been using his falchion as a bonded weapon for six levels of wizard already, so he has solved the wielding-the-bonded-weapon problem already. But is that solution compatible with the methods of using spell combat and spellstrike?

Technically, wielding a weapon means attacking or threatening with it. Since non-magus wizards cannot cast spells and make weapon attacks in the same turn, many GMs figure that "wield" in this case means "held in hand." Holding the falchion in one hand counts as held in hand. Does gferguson's GM, like James Jacob in the unofficial FAQ, also insist that the bonded weapon be gripped properly or ready to make an attack of opportunity?

The situation is vastly different for a magus than a wizard. The latter does not mix casting and combat in the same round. They either swack or spell. The magus is the unique class that does both so they have a tighter set of restrictions to meet.

Personally for your orc, I'd recommend just sticking it out as a wizard until you get to sixth level spells and can bust out with Transformation (Treantmonk: You know this spell it's the one you've been saving your greatsword for.) given that you're not going to be able to do spell combat with your wizard spells anyway.


Is there really no way to "unbond" an item? And then re-bond with a new one?

Alternatively you could make it a staple to ALWAYS cast Enlarge before combat - that way you can use the Falchion one handed with a -2 penalty (although it'll really suck to have further penalties to your spell combat...).

The Exchange

I'm going to second the suggestion of going Eldritch Knight. Magus is a great class, and would fit with your concept well, but it doesn't work well with a Falchion and wouldn't really add anything to your character at ths point. If you take a level of Fighter or Barbarian, you should qualify for EK the level after that - you won't get to do the funky spell combat stuff, but you'll be a better spell caster and as good a melee combatant as any Magus.

Even if you're not worried about character power, it doesn't really make sense to switch horses at this point. Eldritch Knight is totally legal; the main reason to choose Magus instead is that EK makes you spend several levels as a Wizard before you become a warrior-wizard. You've already done that.


Derwalt wrote:
Is there really no way to "unbond" an item? And then re-bond with a new one?

Yes, there is a ritual to bond with a new item, which unbonds the old item. The ritual costs 200gp per wizard level. However, losing the bond to the falchion, the orc's ancestral weapon, does not fit gferguson's character concept.

LazarX wrote:
The situation is vastly different for a magus than a wizard. The latter does not mix casting and combat in the same round. They either swack or spell. The magus is the unique class that does both so they have a tighter set of restrictions to meet.

I don't follow the logic.

The arcane bond to the falchion is from the wizard's arcane bond ability and has nothing to do with a magus arcane bond, which exists for only the Skirnir and Soul Forger archetypes, not the standard magus. Wizard abilities follow wizard rules, not magus rules.

Let's look at the exact words:

Arcane bond wrote:
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.

The word "wielded" applies to a staff (magic item, not a quarterstaff), wand, or weapon. In the next sentence, the phrase "in hand" is used as a reminder of this condition.

I tried a word search on the PRD to find a definition of "wield." I didn't see a definition. I did see dozens of examples in which "wield" means "use in hand," including wielding a wand and wielding a shield. This use is not necessarily an attack; for example, the Dazzling Display feat lets a character wield a weapon to make an Intimidation check. I also saw many NPC descriptions in which "wields" means "is armed with." I checked the index of my hardcover Core Rulebook: "wield" was not listed there. Equipment chapter in the section "Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons" defines the proper grips for wielding the three types of weapons in combat, but it specifies "in combat," such as a melee attack or combat maneuver.

The dictionary definition, "to use (a weapon, instrument, etc.) effectively; handle or employ actively," is broad.

In the Arcane Bond rules, the world "wielded" is applied to staves, wands, and weapons in the same context, which means it cannot be narrowed down to a meaning of "attack or threaten with." And a wizard cannot use a stave or wand while casting a spell, so it does not mean "actively employ." I think it means "held in hand," like the requirement to use a rod's abilities.

The Exchange

re: the "weapon must be wielded" thing - if "wield" is taken to mean that the item must be ready to attack, and therefore a two-handed weapon must be used with two hand, and therefore the Wizard must take severe casting penalties - then RAW, a Wizard with a bonded staff is a terrible idea.

This is a RAI argument, but I doubt that Paizo intended to make a bonded staff a terrible choice for Wizards. Even in PFS, I can't see a GM making a big deal about a bonded falchion being wielded in one hand for spellcasting, unless the player is trying to pull some kind of sneaky workaround to allow himself to attack with the falchion one-handed or something.


I suggest a smooth transition from magus to wizard. As you level you gain two levels in magus and lose one level in wizard. That way it seems as if your character is developing in the direction they want to. If you care the scimitar is really good because of its crit range and might match the character you want to play. Cheers!


It sounds like Robespierre has the right idea (haven't heard that one since the days of Marie Antoinette!) in that the scimitar is basically (int the context of this game) a one-handed falchion. You could rationalize it as "this weapon was a family heirloom first used by an undersized great-uncle" or just that your character is bigger than his progenitors, and uses his falchion as everyone else uses a scimitar (which is the nigh-universal weapon of choice for magi).

Liberty's Edge

I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions and it's very helpful.

First of all, Most of the GM's I've have had, haven't made a huge issue about my having my falchion in one hand, while I cast. Part of the Somatic component I've assumed is waving around the weapon and having the spell erupt from it.

At this point, I have 3 likely workarounds for the Magus issue.

1. Enlarge- which does deftly fix most issues.
2. Unseen Servent-allowing quick switching of weapons
3. Going home, getting Great Uncle's Bastard Sword...that he took from that Taldorian Noble....

Life would be easier if they would allow Exotic Weapon Prof (Falchion) to use Falchion one-handed, like they already do for the Bastard Sword.

I think More Orcs need to stand up for our ancestral heritage.


Actually your character is broken to begin with :\ its stupid but when you cast a somatic spell it requires one hand free, which means you are only "holding" your falchion and not "wielding" it. So, not even getting into the problems with a 2h'er magus, your wizard should be making conc checks every time he casts a spell SOURCE which is really dumb since it breaks every bow-using wizard ever...

As to how 2hers interact with magus, I thoroughly disagree with anyone who says you can hold a weapon in one hand, cast a spell, and then do a 2h strike while combat casting... this is so clearly not the way it's mean to be used, I don't even care enough to look up the details of the wording: it's like TWF, each hand does ONE thing.

Really, if you want this to work, whether you go wizard or magus, you NEED to redo your bonded item :'( you can always used a 1h weapon as a 2h weapon when you aren't casting to continue to get 1.5xSTR on your damage, so it will only lower your damage die a bit.


Ah just realized that must be you posting last... enlarge would be super awkward, and would be subject to some table variation, since some DMs would rule that the falchion just becomes large when you pick it up. Unseen servant? Maybe... again super awkward. Heirloom weapon was rewritten so you can't get free EWP through it, plus it's debatable whether you can legally get it turned into a masterwork weapon or not - by hiring a spellcaster to cast masterwork xformation on it, RAW it works but it's against explicitly, strongly stated RAI.


As has been said before, Eldritch Knight would be better now than Magus.
The Magus as a moderate spellcasting base class will give you limited selection of 6th level spells at level 20- but you already have taken six levels in a full casting class, so you will rather weaken your both spellcasting capacities-, but with an Eldritch Knight, you gain nearly full progression (only losing two caster levels, one to gain all proficiencies, one at the first level of EK), and on the other hand sdvances as a full BAB/d10 Hitdie class, while the Magus is again a mixed class with 3/4 BAB and d8 Hitdie, i.e. an inferior fighter. Overall, you will lose more from the Magus as it would give you.
The Magus is intended to be used from the beginning, not to be taken mid-game, especially if you are already an spellcaster, this is what the Eldritch Knight as a prestige class is useful for. Should you have taken Magus at first level? Maybe. But now, it is to late. But you can still be an Eldricth Knight.


If it was me and I really get your rp concerns I would re-roll as a magus who uses a falcata (similar to falcion in appearance) and stick close to the characters personality. Giving you access to the magus abilities and not making your dip into a new spell casting class at 1st level.

or

As has been suggested go Eldritch Knight and do what you want.

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