Hello all,
I am a GM and had a question regarding evasion and how it works for you. If a cleric casts fire storm and the rogue in question makes his saving throw he does not take any damage? Is this correct?
Thanks!
Yes.
Master Arminas
If the spell in question grants a reflex save for half and the character with evasion makes the roll then they managed to dodge out of the way in time taking no damage unless otherwise specified.
Wow that ability is way to strong! An ancient dragon can breathe whatever and the rogue makes his roll and nothing? Wow...
Wow that ability is way to strong! An ancient dragon can breathe whatever and the rogue makes his roll and nothing? Wow...
And then the next turn the ancient dragon pounces and munches on a nice rogue sandwich. It's a great ability for what its worth. However, almost every character is the king of his castle in one area and mediocre or poor in others. Rogues dodge, Alchemists eat poisoned m&ms, and paladins mock the wicked fear powers of the BBEG. Everybody has their own bailiwick.
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Well those are words I never thought I'd hear.
What I should of said is that there is no fear for a rogue opening a door or chest as a 7th level Cleric spell Fire Storm does 0 points of damage if he makes a saving throw when the Rogue is only second level...
Thanks for all your help!
Well... you still have to make that save throw. But yeah as long as you do that and stay in light or no armor you've got it made.
What I should of said is that there is no fear for a rogue opening a door or chest as a 7th level Cleric spell Fire Storm does 0 points of damage if he makes a saving throw when the Rogue is only second level...
Thanks for all your help!
No, the barbarian is the one with nothing to fear. If the rogue fails his save, he's dead. If the barbarian fails his save, he calls for the cleric to be healed.
Evasion's alright, but it doesn't come up often enough to matter. A Gm can make it come up often, but in my experience they don't bother. Plus all the really nasty stuff is fort or will.
What I should of said is that there is no fear for a rogue opening a door or chest as a 7th level Cleric spell Fire Storm does 0 points of damage if he makes a saving throw when the Rogue is only second level...
Thanks for all your help!
I have a rogue in a pbp RotRL game I run that is 6th level and he rarely makes ref saves, even though it's his best save. But boy, can he make will saves, even though he only has a 10 wis. It's a running gag with the character.
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Four years? Darn it, I missed the 2012 Summer Olympics!
"Do you think a Ninja should have Evasion as a trait".
"I think Evasion as a Ninja Trick option is a reasonable houserule."
I think the ninja already has too much over the rogue. If a ninja want evasion he/she should get a ring like everyone else.
Well in my opinion
I agree with Haldrick. Ninjas already get ALL the nifty stuff compared to rogues. They want evasion, they can get the ring of evasion for 25K or multiclass.
As mentioned by the last two, ninja's do have a lot of options that rogues do not, so evasion should not be easy to add.
Also, ninja's have a built in method to gain evasion. It's one of the Master Ninja Tricks, so it can be taken at 10th or higher as is.
No, the barbarian is the one with nothing to fear. If the rogue fails his save, he's dead. If the barbarian fails his save, he calls for the cleric to be healed.
I can't help but wonder what kind of ridiculous traps are being assumed here. Are they designed specifically to murder a d8 (maybe d10) character in a single trigger, and punish anyone who dares be so bold as to open doors when they don't have d12 hit dice? Why would the GM build a trap like this? Why is it the assumption that the hypothetical GM has done so?
No, the barbarian is the one with nothing to fear. If the rogue fails his save, he's dead. If the barbarian fails his save, he calls for the cleric to be healed.I can't help but wonder what kind of ridiculous traps are being assumed here. Are they designed specifically to murder a d8 (maybe d10) character in a single trigger, and punish anyone who dares be so bold as to open doors when they don't have d12 hit dice? Why would the GM build a trap like this? Why is it the assumption that the hypothetical GM has done so?
Easy solution: use traps that even barbarians are afraid of.
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No, the barbarian is the one with nothing to fear. If the rogue fails his save, he's dead. If the barbarian fails his save, he calls for the cleric to be healed.I can't help but wonder what kind of ridiculous traps are being assumed here. Are they designed specifically to murder a d8 (maybe d10) character in a single trigger, and punish anyone who dares be so bold as to open doors when they don't have d12 hit dice? Why would the GM build a trap like this? Why is it the assumption that the hypothetical GM has done so?Easy solution: use traps that even barbarians are afraid of.
** spoiler omitted **
Symbols immediately come to mind.
Also trapdoors. Doesn't matter how much HP you have afterward if you can't get to the fight.
Bestow Curse, stat drains, silent alarms, trap doors that divide the party, poison gases that flood the entire area, green slime, etc.
With a little creativity, the barbarian will soon wait patiently for the party trapper to give the all clear.
Wow that ability is way to strong! An ancient dragon can breathe whatever and the rogue makes his roll and nothing? Wow...
It's not actually that strong.
Reflex is generally considered to be the least useful of the three saves, in part because failing a Reflex save will not often kill you. It generally does an annoying but not fatal amount of hit point damage (for example, a fireball from a comparable level wizard will not typically kill a rogue even if the save is failed), and is often elemental damage so it's very easy to prepare against (if you are going up against a red dragon and you don't have some sort of anti-fire spells prepared, you're an idiot, and the coroner's report will read 'death by self-inflicted immolation')
By contrast, a failed Fortitude save will often kill you (such as most poisons) or render you effectively helpless (blind, paralyzed, level drained, whatever). A failed Will save may render you helpless but will often, worse, make you into an active danger to your own party (for example, confusion or dominate person).
AND evasion only applies when you already made your save, so all it really does it make a nuisance less so.
So, it's a conditional boost against something that wouldn't have been more than an annoyance anyway.
Reflex is generally considered to be the least useful of the three saves, in part because failing a Reflex save will not often kill you....other stuff....
It used to hold true that Fort and Will saves were the king of locking down/instakilling a character and Reflex was relagated to half damaging hords of mooks. Not true anymore. Metamagic changed all that. Now a wizard can throw out a dazing fireball (or alter it to cold or acid or electricity for those who scream fire sucks). Now you gotta make that Reflex save or be dazed for a minimum of 3 rounds (more if they heighten it up to a higher level spell). It will probably mean the death of your character and if your whole party fails, 3 rounds of daze is a TPK.
Now evasion / improved evasion won't negate that particular tactic because a failed save is still going to inflict damage and thus the daze effect. Still it makes a good point that Reflex saves are no longer the least important save.
Reflex is generally considered to be the least useful of the three saves, in part because failing a Reflex save will not often kill you....other stuff....It used to hold true that Fort and Will saves were the king of locking down/instakilling a character and Reflex was relagated to half damaging hords of mooks. Not true anymore.
Only if you specifically build to that.
If you look at the composition of Paizo published material, whether individual adventures or full adventure paths, Dazing Spell is almost conspicuous by its absence. On average, players need defenses against dazing spell metamagic less often than they need protection against sonic energy....
Now you gotta make that Reflex save or be dazed for a minimum of 3 rounds (more if they heighten it up to a higher level spell). It will probably mean the death of your character and if your whole party fails, 3 rounds of daze is a TPK.
.... which, as you point out, evasion has no effect on.
I recommend people try to avoid posting irrelevant stuff. I also recommend that people avoid posting stuff that is outright wrong. I even more strongly recommend you going for the pair (as you did here).