Help me out with my Barbarian / monk


Advice


So I'm running a barbarian monk up to level 12 for pathfinder society. I've got the build fully planned out and I just want to know if there are any suggestions or things I missed. 20 point buy.

Lvl 11 Barbarian/ 1 Martial Artist

1 Barbarian
2 Barbarian
3 Martial Artist
4 Barbarian
5 Barbarian
6 Barbarian
7 Barbarian
8 Barbarian
9 Barbarian
10 Barbarian
11 Barbarian
12 Barbarian

Half- Orc
Toothy Racial features

Class Feature +1 Round Rage/day/level

Traits
Beserker of Society (+3 rage rounds)
Indomnitable Faith (+1 will)

Str 26 (20 start +2 (level 8, 12) +4 (enhancement)
Dex 10
Con 18 (13 start +1 (level 4) +4 (enhancement))
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 10

BAB 11
AC (Before Rage) 19
AC (During Rage) 20
HP (Before Rage) 135 (82 Barb + 5 Monk + 48 Con)
HP (During Rage) 171 (82 Barb + 5 Monk + 84 Con)

Saves (before rage)
Fort 16 (7 Barb + 2 Monk + 4 Con + 3 Enhancement)
Ref 8 (3 Barb + 2 Monk + 3 Enhancement)
Will 9 (3 Barb + 2 Monk + 3 Enhancement + 1 Trait)
(+4 vs spells, spell like)

During Rage
Fort 19
Ref 8
Will 12

Rage Features
2: Lesser Beast
4: Superstition
6: Beast
8: Roused Anger
10: Greater Beast

Rounds Rage 38 (5 level 1 + 3 Beserker of Society + 30 (10 levels))

Feats
1: Weap Foc (Nat)
3: Feral Combat Training (Bite)
3 (Monk Bonus): Dodge
5: Power Attack
7: Feral Combat Training (Claws)
9: Dragon Style
11: Dragon Ferocity

WBL: 108000
Equipment:
Belt of Physical Might +4 (Str, Con) (40,000) 40,000
Amulet of Mighty Fist +3 (45,000) 85,000
Cloak of Resistance +3 (9,000) 94,000
Boots of Striding and Springing (5,500) 99,500
Mithral Breastplate +2 (8,500) 108,000

Attacks (All Raging, all Power Attack, Bite first)

(Charging)
(2) Claw +25 (11 BAB + 11 STR + 1 Weap Foc + 2 Charge + 3 Mighty Fist)
1d8 + 25 (16 STR + 6 Power Attack + 3 Mighty Fist) x3

Bite +25
1d4 + 34 (22 STR + 9 Power Attack + 3 Mighty Fist) x2

Full Round (Flurry)
(3) Claw +21
1d8 +25

Bite +21
1d4 + 34

Suggestions? Thoughts?

Edit: Move Speed: 50
Darkvision: 60


did I make it too long? I tried to be thorough and show all of my math.

Liberty's Edge

Looks like a scary beast of a half orc.
I pitty the poor creatures your going to tear limb from limb.


Make it a superstitious Barbarian? You get more initiative to remove trapsense. Doesn't look like something you're using anyways.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:


Feats
1: Weap Foc (Nat)
3: Feral Combat Training (Bite)
3 (Monk Bonus): Dodge
5: Power Attack
7: Feral Combat Training (Claws)
9: Dragon Style
11: Dragon Ferocity

From what I understand you have to select a natural attack to focus into, such as Bite, Claw etc.

Searched

I would also suggest against Roused Anger. It's interesting, but if you for some reason drop out of rage again you'll be exhausted for 10 minutes per round afterwards. The only reason I've ever dropped out of rage as a barbarian was to conserve rounds early levels or because I was knocked unconscious. Raging Vitality might not be a bad option.


You do indeed need to separate weapon focuses for both FCT's. However, I have another concern, is FCT legal to take twice? I saw an argument earlier that makes me unsure of that legality.


Malfus wrote:
You do indeed need to separate weapon focuses for both FCT's. However, I have another concern, is FCT legal to take twice? I saw an argument earlier that makes me unsure of that legality.

I would allow it, even though it doesn't say you can take it multiple times. It's a helluva feat dump for a rather little gain.


I should say, "is it legal for PFS?"


Malfus wrote:
I should say, "is it legal for PFS?"

D'oh, forgot context. You're correct, PFS wouldn't allow it. I've been spoiled by my Homebrew upbringing.


Flurry of blows only works with monk weapons or unarmed attacks. Natural weapons aren't unarmed attacks (Pulled from d20pfsrd.com "A monk with natural weapons cannot make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks").

So that might change things as well.


Cainus wrote:

Flurry of blows only works with monk weapons or unarmed attacks. Natural weapons aren't unarmed attacks (Pulled from d20pfsrd.com "A monk with natural weapons cannot make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks").

So that might change things as well.

That is what Feral Combat Training is for


Malfus wrote:
Cainus wrote:

Flurry of blows only works with monk weapons or unarmed attacks. Natural weapons aren't unarmed attacks (Pulled from d20pfsrd.com "A monk with natural weapons cannot make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks").

So that might change things as well.

That is what Feral Combat Training is for

All righty then.

Moving on.


There is good news and bad news.

Bad: You can't have FCT twice

Good: You have an extra feat to decide upon


Just to note, if you went MA5/B7 (max 12 in PFS if I remember), then you'd be ignoring fatigue. Probably something like B1/M1/M2/M3/M4/M5/B2/B3/B4/B5/B6/B7. It would be a lot of investment up front, but the ability at level 6 to ignore fatigue from raging could make it worth it. Especially given that you could really (ab)use those once per rage powers.


kk thanks guys. I didn't know you couldn't use the feral combat training more than once. I'll probably be switching it around and trading out the bite attack for a +1 to all saves as its damage during rage just dumped to +20. Thanks for the suggestion with the superstitious barbarian :)


Barbarian (Superstitious)

Racial Feature
Sacred Tattoo

Feats
1 Weap Foc (Claw)
3 feral Combat training (claw)
3 Dodge
5 Power Attack
7 Raging Vitality
9 Dragon Style
11 Dragon Ferocity

Rage Powers
2 lesser Beast
4 Superstition
6 Beast
8 Ghost Rager (or Possibly Reckless Abandon, not decided yet)
10 Greater Beast

All During Rage, same equip
HP 183
AC 20

Fort 21
Ref 9
Will 13

Claw 21
1d8+34 x3

2x Claw 21
1d8+25 x3

Further I'm not sure if I should trade the armor out. His AC is very low anyways so I'm considering trading it out and getting enlarge person permanency. Is that allowed in PFS?


Can't flurry in armor.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Further I'm not sure if I should trade the armor out. His AC is very low anyways so I'm considering trading it out and getting enlarge person permanency. Is that allowed in PFS?

No permanency in PFS... or rather I *think* you could get Permanency, but it would expire at the end of the adventure just like all other spell effects and durations do which makes it about the worst resource expenditure ever. (Or does it not even work at all?)

And as Khrysaor just said:

d20pfsrd.com wrote:
When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.


Dump armor, dump int, dump cha and put your wis up to 16 on creation is an option. Then again I don't like dumping stats.


CyderGnome wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Further I'm not sure if I should trade the armor out. His AC is very low anyways so I'm considering trading it out and getting enlarge person permanency. Is that allowed in PFS?

No permanency in PFS... or rather I *think* you could get Permanency, but it would expire at the end of the adventure just like all other spell effects and durations do which makes it about the worst resource expenditure ever. (Or does it not even work at all?)

And as Khrysaor just said:

d20pfsrd.com wrote:
When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.

lol thank you. then its official Armor goes out the window! giving me 8500 more to spend :P. What do you think of trading the belt of physical might +4 (40,000) out for a belt of giant strength +6 (36000), a pink rhomboid stone (+2 con) (8000), and a lens of detection (3500)? just for that bonus to perception and to pop my damage and to hit

Liberty's Edge

I have a very similar character in PFS (he's currently level 8) and I thought I'd chime in with my experience.

*Do not forsake AC. Your character as you've laid him out is a lot like my version (Ursus, the Breaker is the alias). PFS loves their 'army of mook' encounters. Having horrendous armor class really hurts in these situations. I suggest dropping your strength down to an 18 and getting some Dex/Wis.

*Raging Vitality is a must. Without it you're going to die to random silly things. This feat is almost a tax. Learn to live with it.

*You're an excellent duelist but not a real 'tank'. You stand on the front lines but you're by no means a 'front-liner'. Without viable AC you're going to get pummeled. A lot. HP is nice but it's often not enough.

If you're going to theory-craft your character for PFS I suggest you look at snapshots from multiple level bands. You essentially retire at level 12 so stats at that level are largely pointless.


Feral wrote:

I have a very similar character in PFS (he's currently level 8) and I thought I'd chime in with my experience.

*Do not forsake AC. Your character as you've laid him out is a lot like my version (Ursus, the Breaker is the alias). PFS loves their 'army of mook' encounters. Having horrendous armor class really hurts in these situations. I suggest dropping your strength down to an 18 and getting some Dex/Wis.

*Raging Vitality is a must. Without it you're going to die to random silly things. This feat is almost a tax. Learn to live with it.

*You're an excellent duelist but not a real 'tank'. You stand on the front lines but you're by no means a 'front-liner'. Without viable AC you're going to get pummeled. A lot. HP is nice but it's often not enough.

If you're going to theory-craft your character for PFS I suggest you look at snapshots from multiple level bands. You essentially retire at level 12 so stats at that level are largely pointless.

its a good thing you don't consider him a tank because tank wasn't what I was going for. If I wanted a tank I would have made him much tankier. No I made dps and I understand for a barbarian he'll be fairly squishy but I actually made him for the precise purpose of being able to cross the field in one round and eliminate enemy spellcasters.

Scarab Sages

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think this character is illegal.

I believe you can't multiclass Barbarian and Monk, since a Barbarian must be unlawful, and a Monk must be lawful.

No one seems to be surprised by this combination, so I'm probably missing something, what is it ?


Martial Artists don't have Alignment restrictions.


Martial Artist is alignment: any

but I'm also curious
can you take Weapon Focus(claws) before actually getting access to claws at level 2?


Archaeik wrote:

Martial Artist is alignment: any

but I'm also curious
can you take Weapon Focus(claws) before actually getting access to claws at level 2?

I think that depends on the GM's interpretation of "Proficiency with selected weapon" when you don't have the natural weapon in question (since you technically you can't be non-proficient with a natural weapon).


regardless with my original build i did have a natural attack and with the pfs character i do have one. I have a bite attack via the half orc toothy racial trait


I have a few questions. first is why isn't secondary attack damage being applied to the bite.

secondly what is to be gained really for the single monk level. 1 level of flurry is exactly the same as twf and there is a rage power that does that for you. I'm not sure it's even necessary but I may be missing something.


Mojorat wrote:


secondly what is to be gained really for the single monk level. 1 level of flurry is exactly the same as twf and there is a rage power that does that for you. I'm not sure it's even necessary but I may be missing something.

One level dip for a Bonus feat, flurry of blows, stunning fist, unarmed strike and +2 to all saves. Not too shabby! Though he doesn't get to use flurry of blows with that armor.


APG Feats wrote:

Furious: This ability can only be placed on a melee weapon. A furious weapon serves as a focus for its wielder's anger. When the wielder is raging or under the effect of a rage spell, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal. If the wielder has a rage power that gives a skill bonus while raging (such as raging climber, raging leaper, or raging swimmer), the wielder gains an enhancement bonus to that skill whenever the weapon is wielded or held in hand, even when not raging; this bonus is equal to the enhancement bonus of the weapon (including the +2 when the wielder is raging).

Moderate enchantment (compulsion); CL 8th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, rage; Price +1 bonus.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/magicItems/weapons.html

That is probably an enchantment you want for your AoMF. I recently played a similar style character (Barb(x)/Druid(x)), and that was the first big item I purchased, which was a good choice.

Be very mindful of your HP and enemies with low attack bonuses... especially rogues, they will eat you for breakfast (that's how my character died).


Alwaysafk wrote:
Mojorat wrote:


secondly what is to be gained really for the single monk level. 1 level of flurry is exactly the same as twf and there is a rage power that does that for you. I'm not sure it's even necessary but I may be missing something.

One level dip for a Bonus feat, flurry of blows, stunning fist, unarmed strike and +2 to all saves. Not too shabby! Though he doesn't get to use flurry of blows with that armor.

except he's spending two feats just to use nat attacks with flurry and no one will ever fail the save vs stunning blow.. I'm curious what his actual attack scheme is intended to be. if he can't flurry the monk stuff is un necessary. the brawler tree does what he needs.


Savage Barb gets AC with no armor, Dodge bonus at 3, 9, and Nat armor at 7 and 10. So If you grabbed say a want of Mage armor that you got a Wiz to cast for you, by Lv 4, (barb 3 monk 1), your AC is better than if you had Chain shirt (light armor for fast movement) and by the time you'd be able to get a Mythral Breastplate, you may have the nat armor at Lv 8. It trails a bit, but may be worth considering if you want no armor to take advantage of monk abilities...

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