Hello,
i am i a discussion with our GM right now about the monk using Power attack in a flurry of blows (lvl 3 monk of the four winds, BAB+2, Flurry BAB+1)
He states that it isnt possible, while i dont find anything in the rulebooks that would deny that possibility. For a reason he names that, since i already declared Flurry i cant also declare a Power attack on them.
I found some threads, where it was discussed , if the monk can use his Flurry BAB to qualify for that feat at lvl 1(which isnt our Problem and wont convince him), but i dont find anything to convince him that it is allowed to use Power attack on my flurry of blows in general. I am not experienced enough when it comes to rules to stand my ground on this one. If anyone could make this clear for us i would be very thankful.
Furthermore i have the question, if the monk is able to do one flurry attack with a stunning fist /elemental fist and also uses a KI point to make another attack in his flurry in the same round which he also wont accept.
I know that the GM has got the last word on all of that, but since i cant find anything to deny that, i would like to hear some explanation why or why not these two things can be used.
Thanks for your help,
Sebastian
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You can definitely use Power Attack on Flurry of Blows.There is nothing in the rules that states you can or that you cannot.
Well you could make one attack with Elemental Fist but it specifically states you can only make one a round.(You may attempt an Elemental Fist attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (see Special), and no more than once per round.)
Same with Stunning Fist.(You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round.)
Or if you meant you can make a extra attack on top of the Stunning Fist or Elemental Fist I so no reason why you could not.
There will not be a rule saying you can power attack with flurry of blows because no where in the rules does it even suggest you can not do so.
They can not spell out every combination in the game, so if it does not specifically say some combination does not work it does.
You can two weapon fight while flurrying while you power attack and fight defensively, you won't hit a dawn thing but you can do all of it at once.
Agreed. A monk, like any combatant with a few entry-level feats, can simultaneously power attack while fighting defensively with combat expertise.
You can definitely use Power Attack on Flurry of Blows.
Well you could make one attack with Elemental Fist but it specifically states you can only make one a round.(You may attempt an Elemental Fist attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (see Special), and no more than once per round.)
Same with Stunning Fist.(You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round.)
Hi thanks for the quick answer. The problem is, that he wont be convinced by that. Is there anything, in the books that describes why it is possible?
To the second question, i know that i only can do one elemental fist per round, but is it also possible to use one ki point to add another attack to my flurry, while having used elemental first in the same round?
The problem with both seems that the GM states that a flurry attack makes it impossible to use other feats with it since it also uses a full action. Again i am not that good with the rules.
Ok, i hope that will satisfy him. Thanks for the quick answers. Damn you guys are fast!
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You can definitely use Power Attack on Flurry of Blows.There is nothing in the rules that states you can or that you cannot.
Well you could make one attack with Elemental Fist but it specifically states you can only make one a round.(You may attempt an Elemental Fist attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (see Special), and no more than once per round.)
Same with Stunning Fist.(You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round.)
Or if you meant you can make a extra attack on top of the Stunning Fist or Elemental Fist I so no reason why you could not.
+1
I doubt you will find a rule on this as the rules generally point out when a combination is not possible, not when it is possible. It also doesn't say you can use power attack when fighting with two weapons, when making a shield bash, when under the effect of a haste spell, or for that matter, when fighting with a sword.
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You can only do one elemental fist a round, even if you get an extra attack through ki. Same with flurry. However, you can flurry + ki attack + haste using both an elemental fist and a stunning fist (on two seperate attacks). Level 5 is a wonderful level for a four winds monk doing this, as he is getting 4 attacks at full BAB, adding 2d6 damage on one of them while also adding a save or suck to the mix.
I have a lvl 5 monk on a pbp here on the forums that (with enlarge and haste) has the following set of rolls-
Attack 1-
+12 attack, 2d6+7+2d6 damage (average 21)
Attack 2-
+12 attack, 2d6+7 damage (average 14) with a save or suck as well
Attack 3-
+12 attack, 2d6+7 damage (average 14)
Attack 4-
+12 attack, 2d6+7 damage (average 14)
I haven't actually given this monk power attack as i'm holding out for Dragon Style instead- as he frequently has so many attacks I don't particularly want to nerf his to hit.
i am i a discussion with our GM right now about the monk using Power attack in a flurry of blows (lvl 3 monk of the four winds, BAB+2, Flurry BAB+1)
He states that it isnt possible, while i dont find anything in the rulebooks that would deny that possibility. For a reason he names that, since i already declared Flurry i cant also declare a Power attack on them.
I haven't researched this one specifically, but as a GM, I would be inclined to allow it. Declaring that you are doing a certain type of attack isn't an action, so doesn't take any time. The attack itself has an action type (flurry of blows = full attack), but as long as you aren't trying to stack too many actions in one turn, that's fine. You can power attack on a charge, which is a full round action, so I don't see why you couldn't power attack with flurry of blows.
I found some threads, where it was discussed , if the monk can use his Flurry BAB to qualify for that feat at lvl 1(which isnt our Problem and wont convince him)
You can't use your modified BAB to qualify for a feat, but it sounds like you're already past this point.
Furthermore i have the question, if the monk is able to do one flurry attack with a stunning fist /elemental fist and also uses a KI point to make another attack in his flurry in the same round which he also wont accept
This should also be OK. Using stunning fist is just part of a regular attack (in this case, flurry of blows). It's not a swift action or anything. Do note, however, that you can't use more than one ki point ability per round:
By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack. In addition, he can spend 1 point to increase his speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Finally, a monk can spend 1 point from his ki pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.
EDIT: Ninja'd by a bunch of people. I guess I type too slowly.
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There is not going to be any specific answer in the book, it would be impossible for them to add a disclaimer for every possible combo in the game.
Simply by reading the feat for Power Attack it should be clear that you could use it with Flurry of Blows
Power Attack (Combat)
You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.
Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.
When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2.
You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
And I thought I could be a jerky GM sometimes 8) This guy is just being mean or has to win at all costs me thinks.
Not in the book, but this should be good enough.
Hello again.
First of all, THANKS for solving the problem in 22 minutes. I know where to ask if i have another question.
You guys saved us hours of discussion that we now can use to actually play the game.
The other hints were a great addition to my question and will help beginners like me to understand certain rules regarding the monk a lot better, since there was no thread online answering this problem in general.
Big thanks, problem solved!
Sebastian
EDIT:
(i got ninja'd with every of my comments by at least 2 people. Dont worry, there is always someone like me typing slower than you)
And I thought I could be a jerky GM sometimes 8) This guy is just being mean or has to win at all costs me thinks.
I have to defend my GM here.
1. sometimes its kinda fun to argue about rulequestions
2. In our group we have a little problem with Players trying to make Powerchars so we have to be extra careful :)
3. He already accepted your explanations
Great forum. Enough said!
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I know that it has been answered, but there is also a FAQ on it:
Monk: How does a monk's improved BAB when flurrying interact with feats like Power Attack and Combat Expertise, which have different effects depending on your BAB?
The monk uses his improved flurrying BAB to determine the effect of those feats.
—Sean K Reynolds, 07/08/11
"For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus. "
So the monk doesn't qualify for Power Attack at first level, but does at 2nd level.
As for the rest of your question, there is nothing about 'declaring' in the rules for power attack OR for flurry of blows. It does say that Power Attack needs to be chosen BEFORE you make an attack roll.
Flurry of blows is possible whenever the monk is making a full attack option, just as two weapon fighting is.
Power Attack is possible to activate on your turn before an attack, whether that is a full attack, a standard attack or a flurry of blows.
Since your DM is adding things to the game rules like 'declaring' feats or options being limited, that's his houserules, and nothing in the regular ruleset is going to support or undermine that. If he knows he's houseruling, then he's the only one who can change this. If he thinks he's not houseruling, he should re-read the powers in question.
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2. In our group we have a little problem with Players trying to make Powerchars so we have to be extra careful :)
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It's been my experience that 99% of the time, "power characters" are nothing more than players getting away with violating the existing rules, and the GM not knowing enough about the rules to know better.
The extra 1% of the time, it's due to some ridiculous loophole that only becomes an issue, because munchkins refuse to accept that it should never be allowed to work (see barbarian rage+lance+pounce).
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2. In our group we have a little problem with Players trying to make Powerchars so we have to be extra careful :)
...It's been my experience that 99% of the time, "power characters" are nothing more than players getting away with violating the existing rules, and the GM not knowing enough about the rules to know better.
The extra 1% of the time, it's due to some ridiculous loophole that only becomes an issue, because munchkins refuse to accept that it should never be allowed to work (see barbarian rage+lance+pounce).
Pounce for player characters is the issue. If player characters are allowed to have pounce, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to apply a specific weapon that works well on a charge.
...other than the fact that the extra power behind a charge only realistically applies to one attack. Once the player is at his enemy, any successive attacks don't carry the power of the charge, hence no x2/x3(etc.) damage on iterative attacks.
I don't care what the RAW is being read as on that subject; it's poorly written, it's grossly overpowered, and it shouldn't be allowed to work.
I actually don't have a problem with players having pounce, but IMO, it should only work on one attack after the pounce/charge.