Sorry to use the word "tank" but that's what one of my fellow players wishes to do - by which they mean they want to soak damage. I keep saying to her that she will need to be threatening for people to wish to attack her, and in our first session the GM has been nice and made stuff attack her, but yeah, he's going to use intelligent combat whenever we're against intelligent foes.
We're starting at level 7 for the adventure path. I don't have access to the build til our next session, however I am helping to put the character together and was hoping to find something to suddenly make her character concept work. Stats are something like:
STR: 10 (spend 0)
DEX: 16 (spend 7, 4th level add 1)
CON: 12 (spend 2)
INT: 9 (recover 1)
WIS: 14 (spend 5)
CHA: 12 (spend 2)
First, what's the consensus around here on clerics trying to be a fighter? What about if the cleric's character concept was completely against buffing?
Second, what sort of things can you do to mitigate combat casting, as her health isn't awesome and she might want to heal/cast in combat.
Third, she's trying to use damage spells as a Positive Energy cleric, I'm guessing that's kind of gimped?
Since I am one of those who believe the action economy penalizes healing in combat, I have no problem with clerics taking on melee roles and have played tanking or even melee combat clerics many times. It is almost always the case that well-chosen buffs cast before combat is a better use of spell casting than casting heals during combat, and if the cleric isn't casting heals and has already contributed buffs to the team, then laying about with a mace or scimitar is a perfectly acceptable activity for a cleric imho.
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(The OP's point-buy adds up to 17...?)
they want to soak damage. I keep saying to her that she will need to be threatening for people to wish to attack her, and in our first session the GM has been nice and made stuff attack her, but yeah, he's going to use intelligent combat whenever we're against intelligent foes.
Don't be a cleric; be a paladin:
20pt:
STR:14
DEX:14
CON:14
INT:12
WIS:07
CHA:17 (all bumps)
Primary weapon: bardiche
01 pala1 Combat Reflexes, Stand Still
02 pala2
03 cava1 [Gendarme][Power Attack], Pushing Assault
04 (rest paladin)
-- Basically you're a glueball with reach, and have Lay-on-Hands to ease away all that damage you're going to eat.
When I played a cleric, I was reasonably proficient with melee, but I found that casting a spell or channeling energy was almost always a better choice in any given round than swinging my scimitar. When not swapping spells for heals, I used things to debuff: Doom, Bestow Curse, Prayer, etc. Anything that lowered saves was great; anything that lowered attack, damage, or Strength was incredible.
Hmmm, sort of some of the things she was thinking of. She started off talking about "tanking" in the middle of the battlefield by casting spells, so that would fit her theme. Maybe intelligent creatures might perceive an offensive spellcaster who's easy to get at as a good target.
Combat Casting is generally all you need.
Ah yes, that's where the other spare feat should go - thankyou.
There's nothing keeping a cleric from doing all of these things to some degree; my cleric used Fireball and Wall of Fire quite frequently as domain spells. But he couldn't quite blast as effectively as the wizard. He never really got around to melee, there was too much to do that was more effective. Heals, of course, he was ridiculously good at, simply by being a cleric.
That's certainly encouraging for her - I'll let her know, good to hear people have already done what she's trying and found out a few things. I'm just trying to prevent her getting bored - I feel I would with a "tanky" setup.
For a "tanking" cleric, consider:
-Shield Other: Can be used to make Channel Energy more efficient, if someone else is under attack.
-Command: Use to control the battlefield. Keep opponents away from the casters by making them "approach." Note that the target can take no other actions, so even if you command a foe to take a 5-foot step toward you, that's all he can...
Yeah, very true about Shield Other - protection of allies and all that. Also never heard of using Command like that - dunno why I've never thought of it.
Since I am one of those who believe the action economy penalizes healing in combat, I have no problem with clerics taking on melee roles ... *snip* ... well-chosen buffs cast before combat is a better use of spell casting than casting heals during combat *snip*
Aye, but refusal to buff anyone at all seems a little odd. With the action economy that does hold until boss fights/final encounters. Most of the boss fights we have (we play at the Challenging level) the bosses can two-hit dead our fighters and can take a lot of damage so healing and distractions are an absolute necessity.
(The OP's point-buy adds up to 17...?)
Sorry, yes, I just forget exactly what it ended up being. I think she's playing a human so she's allocated 2 points somewhere (maybe CHA) and I think she dumped INT to 8 - I should have been more accurate but I was just leaving work for the day when I posted it, I was guaging whether it would be better to focus on STR or DEX with a 15-point buy.
You raise a darn good point about paladins, but no, she wants to play cleric. If she shows any sign of changing classes your post will be very helpful - thanks.
I would have them look at an Oracle of Battle. Can make a VERY effective tanking cleric type. The battle Oracle can get abilities to avoid AoO's when they cast healing spells on themselves.