Dragon confusion


Rules Questions


So I've played against dragons a number of times and they just confuse me with their full attacks because I cant picture it in my head.

You stand off to one side of them and they:
hit you with the adjacent and opposing claw
hit you with the adjacent and opposing wing
bite you
tail slap you

You stand in front of them and they still get their wing and tail attacks?

Something just doesn't seem right. Is there a proximity for each attack?


Basically that's how it goes. Things would only become more complicated if we started adding proximitiex to natural attacks. Also, you're trying to apply realism to a creature that breathes fire/acid/whatever and flies faster when it gts bigger.


You are assuming there is such a thing as front/back/left/right/flanks/whatever on the dragon and you are there. Instead realize that it's not facing any where but where it is attacking at the time (and possibly not then either).


Yar, I envision it as the dragon moving around in his (40 ft?) space, just as your PC would move around in his 5 ft space.

Paladin archers vs. dragons, ftw.


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The combatants are not standing in static poses. They are in a "swirling melee". No front, no back, no sides, just ACTION!!!


great thanks guys now every time I fight a dragon I'm going to picture him spinning in place once every 6 seconds. dear lord the epicness is gone -_-' and replaced by hilarity


Go watch some dragon fights in movies -- they don't sit still. In fact watch any animals fight, they are constantly moving about in their space.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Something just doesn't seem right. Is there a proximity for each attack?

Spinning Dragon-fu combo of Colossal bite, claw, claw, wing, wing & tail to the medium face is the price one pays for a game system without combat facing. It is pretty important to NOT spread a monsters attacks out since it is focus fire that drops a target and spreading out the damage lets the cleric heal it too effectively.

Who else remembers that first time players dishearteningly realized Big monsters didn't have to spread their attacks among the party in back in the early days of 3E? No more facing, no more out maneuvering natural attacks. And it's a delightful double whammy since they probably ate an AoO to get up to the critter in the first place :)


Frankthedm wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Something just doesn't seem right. Is there a proximity for each attack?

Spinning Dragon-fu combo of Colossal bite, claw, claw, wing, wing & tail to the medium face is the price one pays for a game system without combat facing. It is pretty important to NOT spread a monsters attacks out since it is focus fire that drops a target and spreading out the damage lets the cleric heal it too effectively.

Who else remembers that first time players dishearteningly realized Big monsters didn't have to spread their attacks among the party in back in the early days of 3E? No more facing, no more out maneuvering natural attacks. And it's a delightful double whammy since they probably ate an AoO to get up to the critter in the first place :)

I seem to remember 3.0 (but not 3.5) still having facing for a dragon to the extent of "here's the areas that these attacks can be made in" - so you had to be standing behind it to get hit by the tail, to the side or back to be hit by a wing, etc. The dragon could change its facing whenever it started attacking, but not during an attack.

3.5 threw out that last vestige of facing.


Quote:
3.5 threw out that last vestige of facing.

3.5 did keep facing as an optional rule in Unearthed Arcana. It even had its own chart to show where a dragon could attack.

3.0 didn't have facing, not even for dragons. I can't even find it as an optional rule. {Which is strange, because 3.0 implied facing, what with creatures having rectangular spaces. A horse took up a 5 foot x 10 foot area, for example, instead of a 10' square.}

3.0 PHB wrote:
Face: “Face” is how wide a face a creature presents in combat. This width determines how many creatures can fight side by side in a 10- foot-wide corridor, and how many opponents can attack a creature at the same time. A face is essentially the border between the square or rectangular space that a creature occupies and the space next to it. These faces are abstract, not “front, back, left, and right,” because combatants are constantly moving and turning in battle. Unless a creature is immobile, it practically doesn’t have a front or a left side—at least not one you can locate on the tabletop.


Jeraa wrote:
Quote:
3.5 threw out that last vestige of facing.

3.5 did keep facing as an optional rule in Unearthed Arcana. It even had its own chart to show where a dragon could attack.

3.0 didn't have facing, not even for dragons. I can't even find it as an optional rule. {Which is strange, because 3.0 implied facing, what with creatures having rectangular spaces. A horse took up a 5 foot x 10 foot area, for example, instead of a 10' square.}

3.0 PHB wrote:
Face: “Face” is how wide a face a creature presents in combat. This width determines how many creatures can fight side by side in a 10- foot-wide corridor, and how many opponents can attack a creature at the same time. A face is essentially the border between the square or rectangular space that a creature occupies and the space next to it. These faces are abstract, not “front, back, left, and right,” because combatants are constantly moving and turning in battle. Unless a creature is immobile, it practically doesn’t have a front or a left side—at least not one you can locate on the tabletop.

Oh, maybe I'm remembering it from UA then. All I knew for sure was that I saw it somewhere, and I hadn't looked at it in years.

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