I'm curious which is the better strategy in regards to the restless dead: a large amount of weak minions or one big super minion? This is as a player with access to the spells Animate Dead and Create Undead. I've got an Oracle of Bones who just got Animate Dead and I'm wondering if I should just keep a small herd of zombies with me or save up my HD of controlled undead for a big monster.
Here's what I see so far:
Quality
-Less paper work
-Probably cheaper in terms of black onyx stones, though I haven't done any math
-Can easily keep up with other monsters increasing CR by buffing it
-Once its gone, everything I've invested in it is gone
-Arming the big guy would be fairly cheap
Quantity
-More paper work (depending on how many I've got and if they're different types of undead)
-Possibly more expensive in black onyx stones
-More actions per turn (BIG benefit, as far as I can tell)
-Makes life easier around the camp (zombies can fetch firewood, set up tents, etc.)
-Arming all of them could be expensive
-Don't think it would keep up with the increase in enemy CR
If anyone has any math they've done or suggestions on how to buff one's minions, I'm all ears!
Add a con to the quantity a horde of zombies could be taken out by blasting easily oh I just fireballed all your skeltons.
Add a con to the quantity a horde of zombies could be taken out by blasting easily oh I just fireballed all your skeltons.
Woops, my bad! Forgot one of the main disadvantages. :P
Quality always beats quantity unless your goal is using your minions to chop firewood and trigger traps ahead of the party.
Enemies scale too much for lower level undead to be effective.
If you are planning to use them in combat, Quality is probably the way to go.
I mean, sure, a horde brings a lot of actions. But those actions aren't going to really matter. Their attacks are too weak and inaccurate to pose a significant threat to a CR appropriate foe, even in great numbers. They are extremely vulnerable to blasting, which enemies tend to have a lot of. And, since they are mindless, you can't get particularly clever with them. Massive use of combat manuevers and aid another could be cool, but the tactics are complicated enough that your GM may call foul.
Having a few low-HD skeletons around isn't a bad idea as a supplement, though. They can be pack mules and servants, and spam nets or something in a fight. And, when the fireball hit, you'll only lose a few hundred GP, instead of a thousand-plus for a true horde.
If you are planning to use them in combat, Quality is probably the way to go.
I mean, sure, a horde brings a lot of actions. But those actions aren't going to really matter. Their attacks are too weak and inaccurate to pose a significant threat to a CR appropriate foe, even in great numbers. They are extremely vulnerable to blasting, which enemies tend to have a lot of. And, since they are mindless, you can't get particularly clever with them. Massive use of combat manuevers and aid another could be cool, but the tactics are complicated enough that your GM may call foul.
Having a few low-HD skeletons around isn't a bad idea as a supplement, though. They can be pack mules and servants, and spam nets or something in a fight. And, when the fireball hit, you'll only lose a few hundred GP, instead of a thousand-plus for a true horde.
Ok, so one big zombie and a little skeleton for a pack mule/servant. Sounds like a good idea, I like it. Who needs Unseen Servant when I've got Animate Dead!
Now what about Create Undead? I know your options are a LOT better, but you don't have automatic control over them. Is that really as big of an issue as it looks? Channeling to control the undead every so often doesn't sound like that big of a problem and as long as you're not a complete jerk to your minion I don't think it would be a problem.
Tuckers zombies?
Quality is the way to go for not making each round super long and tedious for the party and the game master. Better in the interest of time to have 1 out, maybe 2 tops.
Necromancy is lame.
Quality every time. By the way a 5th level caster under a desecrate spell can animate a 20HD undead creature, not too shabby.
A couple of things I have thrown at the game as a Necromancer, both as a GM and a Player.
Swarm of Speedbumps: Just because your Skeletons and Zombies are all 1 or 2 HD does not make them useless. Put them in an important room people rarely go into, add a timer-trap of some description and then lock the doors and leave.
Yes that annoying band of heroes/thieves can probably chew through 10 zombies or 20 skeletons fairly quickly, but within 5 rounds the room starts to fill with water and the door behind them snaps shut, or the statues randomly start casting Cone of Cold, then the Undead have done their job long enough to keep the PCs pinned down long enough to let the real danger do it's work.
Say hello to my little friend: Zombie Dragon. Bag of Holding. Instant meatshield and something hilariously fun to pull out in the middle of an antagonistic meeting to get people to pay attention. A live Dragon is impressive. A dead Dragon is damn near terrifying because it means YOU killed one of the most powerful creatures on the planet. "You will ALL be civil to each other or I let Smaug the Lesser here have some fun. And you do NOT want to meet Smaug the Greater, I assure you."
!@#$ upkeep: A particularly ghoulish choice, but still fun, is to use your large swarms of Skeletons or the right kind of Zombie to do repetitive chores such as digging tunnels or trenches. Hell, you have enough of them armed with Mithril picks and shovels and you can theoretically dig your own Strip-mine esque crater down to the Darklands!
I BELIEVE I CAN FLY!:
Aforementioned Zombie Dragon is useful, especially if it's Large size and can carry A necromancer and his pal, but what about the rest of the party? Transmute a couple of dead horses into Half-Dragon or Half-Fiend Horses, then cast the relevant Spell. Bang. Flying Zombie Horses. Especially tough Zombie horses with some elemental resistances and increased ability scores. And in a pinch, they make fantastic blitz-units for your Necromancer to throw at an otherwise untouchable enemy.
HABIB!:
Evil, definitely, but stuff the Zombie full of Alchemist Fire and Explosives, then send the damn thing charging the gates. Assuming the impact doesn't set it off, having a friend use a Flaming Arrow to set the Zombie on fire, and then detonate, is always hilarious fun.
Guards on top of the gate are going "Seriously, what did that serv-OH GODS, FIRE!"
Undead Nightmares are good as steeds, they keep their supernatural ability to fly and you should be able to animate enough to supply the whole party (if a PC) or your best minions (if an NPC)
Go with quality.
Undead Revisited says you can make a JuJu zombie with animate dead and enervation. Just get someone to cast it, and make sure that you are under a desecrate spell, and boom! Now you have a 20hd PC zombie under your control (just make sure they didn't dump CHA) Who needs leadership when you can have a JuJu Zombie Cavalier 20 at level 5?
Go with both. It's not like you have to keep them controlled all the time. When you are on light patrol keep the bruiser in an extra-dimensional space, with the army out. If things look important switch them places. Use the command undead class feature to help out too.
Always, always, ALWAYS, cast desecrate before animating. Not Only can you then animate 4x your caster level in HD (the maximum you can control) but your new minion(s) get an extra hit point per hit die, or 2 extra if there is a permanent alter to your god, though I'm not sure how that works with Oracles. Desecrate is a good spell to buff in combat too, though it is fixed on an area therefore will not travel with you.
Creating a Bloody Skeleton will save you a lot of onyx in the long run. Their deathless ability to come back to unlife after an hour is frankly awesome in a long campaign. I know bless or positive energy can destroy them permanently, but how many bad guys have easy enough access to these things that they would want to waste them on mooks anyway?
Sweet, thanks for the advice everyone! My DM is letting me use Libris Mortis from 3.5, so I've got the Corpsecrafter feat which gives all undead I create +2 Str and another HD.
Does anyone have any good ways to buff minions? Are the variants like Fast Zombie and Bloody Skeleton alright? And is Create Undead worth it?
Create undead I would avoid as you do not automatically control them. Even if you do take control, they get a new save to break free every day.
Fast Zombie essentially gives you a permanently hasted minion (though it loses it's damage reduction). Plague Zombie sounds ok but you do not control anything it spawns.