OK, so I built a pally/sorc gish before, but i'm trying to create a better build. The focus is mainly buff spells and some battlefield control (Toppling Magic Missile is great), so I wanted some advise when it came to feats and spells. The 2-level pally dip gives me my cha to my saves, which is much needed and makes my charisma that much more relevant. So I'm looking at missing out on 3 caster levels total for the purpose of spells.
For bloodline I'm choosing the Verdant Bloodline (Photosynthesis is a very nice ability: No need to eat/drink, only 2 hours of sleep needed), and Entangle/Barkskin as free spells (I really like being able to cast barkskin as a gish. Entangle can be decent battlefield control. Getting Toughness or extend spell for free is nice too. Everything else is bad)
My level choices are P2/S6/EK10/S2, P2/S7/EK10/S8, and P2/S8/EK10
I'd rather go for the second choice simply because i can get the lv7 sorc feat (of course, toughness and Extend Spell are the only viable choices for feats).
Anyway, so this is the build i have
Race: Human
(Legend:
LV: Character Level/Class Level
BAB: Base Attack Bonus
CL: Caster Level
F/R/W: Fort/Reflex/Will Saves
HSp: Highest Spell level
Ab: Abilities)
LV1:P1, BAB:1, CL:0, F/R/W: 2/0/2, Ab: Smite Evil, Detect Evil 1/day
Lv2:P2, BAB:2, CL:0, F/R/W: 3/0/3, Ab: Divine Grace, Lay On Hands 1d6
LV3:S1, BAB:2, CL:1, F/R/W: 3/0/5, Ab: Spells, Eschew Materials, Tanglevine, Arcana (Personal spells = AC bonus)
LV4:S2, BAB:3, CL:2, F/R/W: 3/0/6, Ab:
LV5:S3, BAB:3, CL:3, F/R/W: 4/1/6, Ab: Photosynthesis, Spell: Entangle
LV6:S4, BAB:4, CL:4, F/R/W: 4/1/7, Ab:
LV7:S5, BAB:4, CL:5, F/R/W: 4/1/7, Ab: Spell: Barkskin
LV8:S6, BAB:5, CL:6, F/R/W: 5/2/8, Ab:
LV9:S7, BAB:5, CL:7, F/R/W: 5/2/8, Ab: BL Feat, Spell: Speak W Plants
LV10:EK1, BAB:6/1, CL:7, F/R/W: 6/2/8 , Ab: Diverse Combat Training, Bonus Combat Feat
LV11:EK2, BAB:7/2, CL:8, F/R/W: 6/3/9, Ab:
LV12:EK3, BAB:8/3, CL:9, F/R/W: 7/3/9, Ab:
LV13:EK4, BAB:9/4, CL:10, F/R/W: 7/3/9, Ab:
LV14:EK5, BAB:10/5, CL:11, F/R/W: 8/4/10, Ab: Bonus Combat Feat
LV15:EK6, BAB:11/6/1, CL:12, F/R/W: 8/4/10, Ab:
LV16:EK7, BAB:12/7/2, CL:13, F/R/W: 9/4/10, Ab:
Lv17:EK8, BAB:13/8/3, CL:14, F/R/W: 9/5/11, Ab:
LV18:EK9, BAB:14/9/4, CL:15, F/R/W: 10/5/11, Ab: Bonus Combat Feat
LV19:EK10, BAB:15/10/5, CL:16, F/R/W: 10/5/11, Ab: Spell Critical
LV20:S8, BAB:16/11/6/1, CL: 17, F/R/W: 10/5/12, Ab:
So obviously, the reflex save is laughably low, and tanglevine doesn't scale well, making it bad after level 9 (until which point is pretty fun to use). Divine Grace helps offset the saves (At least Will remains good, Fort is a close second)
We always roll for stats, so I design with 2 good stats in mind. 3 at most. I wanna avoid MAD. For this character I'm looking at STR and CHA as mains, with Dex and con being at least a +1
My main issue is the feats: Obviously I'm gonna be using a 2handed weapon for the power attack bonuses so What I'm looking at so far is
LV1: Power Attack, Improved Initiative
LV3: Furious Focus, Eschew Materials
LV5: Combat Casting
LV7: Toppling Spell
LV9: Spontaneous Metafocus (Magic Missile), Toughness
LV11: Quicken Spell
I also want to cram in Critical Focus, one of the crit feats, and I thought about putting diverse training for good use (Fighter Feats). I also considered item creation feats since I ave ~5 hours a day i got nothing to do.
Ultimately, assuming i pick those feats, (and I think I can drop Combat Casting to be honest) I have 3 bonus combat feats and 4 regular feats I can use
Also, what spells are must-have? (I'm not using arcane armor training because I like my swift Action)
I plan on using Mage Armor, shield, Magic Missile, greater magic weapon, and eventually overland flight.
I also try to avoid a lot of the mass buff spells since then the party see me as a buffbot and expect me to spend my turns casting spells on them. (i played a gish before using some of the similar stuff and another player expected me to cast barkskin on him every time, then if people expect me to cast haste, etc i reach a point where I *Have* to cast those spells and i dont get a turn to actually fight). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for teamwork, but I'm not a fan of "OK, just stay back there and let us handle it...just buff us" every time.
Anyway, that's what I got so far and how i feel about some of the aspects of the build. Help with Feats and spells please :D
|
Might be just a little level crazy, but consider a level of Oracle of Lore or Nature. Access to the cleric list for wands, Side step secret for using charisma instead of dex for AC and Reflex saves. Suddenly, your reflex saves don't seem so bad anymore. Alternatively consider 2 levels in ninja. 2nd level you get a charisma base Ki Pool, access to forgotten ninja trick, and 2 haste like abilities, such as an extra attack on a fullround action and +20 movement for 1 round as a swift action.
Whatever you decide, keep in mind that at the higher levels your going to have a hard time hitting things because of BAB loss for the Sorceror levels, so be sure to know a few self buffs that will help your BAB. Heroism is going to be your best friend in the long run. I would also recommend eagles splendor over bull's strength. A single casting, with the oracles sidestep secret would net you a + 2 to all DCs for spells cast, +2 AC from Cha bonus to dodge, +2 Fort and Will and +4 Reflex. Good stuff!
well...I dont think that I should be dipping into more classes because Oracle is 3/4 BAB (so is ninja) so i'm dropping my BAB even more.
Also, it interferes with my spellcasting (lv17 casting at lv20 is as low as i'm willing to compromise...my CL also suffers which affects
Hell, only reason I did Pally 2 instead of Fighter 1 or Barbarian 1 is for the bonus to saves (which I hope will be +5 at least at high levels)
I agree Heroism is awesome.
What i'm looking for is help picking the feats
I'll of course be taking Power Attack, Toughness, Improved Initiative, and Furious Focus. I was thinking of taking toppling spell and maybe Spontaneous Metafocus (Magic Missile), but as fun as it is, i think that is something better suited for wizard/fighter builds using the trip feats.
|
Oracle and Ninja are 3/4 BAB, but Sorceror is 1/2 BAB. Replacing 2 levels of Sorc with 2 of either of those could only help your BAB, couldn't it?
Personally, if you're liking the idea of controlling the battlefield with Entangle-like abilities, and you're focusing on Strength and Power Attack, I'd say Improved Bull Rush might be worth it. Remember, you can choose whether or not you move with the target, so you can either shove an enemy away from a squishier party member and stay up in his face for melee, or shove him straight into your Black Tentacles or whatnot while you stay behind where it's safe. Preexisting terrain hazards only compound the hilarity.
Also, what armor are you wearing? If you're casting arcane spells in armor, you may want Arcane Armor Training (or Still Spell?)
Mirror Image is a must have. MY Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4's favorite.
Instead of Mage Armor, I've opted for Arcane Armor Training/Arcane Armor Mastery, and mithril breastplate (mithral full plate is expensive).
Eldritch Heritage (Arcane Bloodline) would give you an extra spell per day at your highest level, and let you upgrade your weapon cheaply... Improved Eldritch Heritage could then get you 3 more spells known, over time. Also Improved Arcane Bond (from Wayfinder volume 3) is neat, if your GM allows it...
Spell Penetration/Greater Spell Penetration might be nice...
STR: 15 [7] DEX 14 [5] CON 13 [3], INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 14+2=16 [5]
Sorcerer: Arcane Bloodline [Bonded Item: Ring]
Why Arcana bloodline?
1) Bloodline arcana gives +1 to effective spell level for using metamagic; this makes up for using lower CHA for save DCs.
2) Bloodline 3rd level special ability allows one metamagic casting at no casting time penalty.
Traits: History of Heresy [Will Save booster], Magical Lineage [Scorching Ray]
Favored Class: Sorcerer
Fighter 1st (BAB +1), Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus: Greatsword.
HP 10+1+3=14
Melee: +1+2+1-1=+3 to hit for 2d6+3+3
After 1st adventure, buy masterwork greatsword.
After 3rd adventure, sell off armor, and spend 2 PA for a wand of Mage Armor.
Sorcerer 1st (BAB +1, CL 1st), +1 HP (FavClass)
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Prestidigitation
1: Shield, Magic Missile
HP: 14+4+1=19
Melee: +1+2+1+1-1=+4 to hit for 2d6+3+3.
WBL: 1500 of 3000 max
Expected PA: 4/6 (500 max)
Sorcerer 2nd (BAB +2, CL 2nd), Fleet I, +1 HP (FavClass)
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze
1: Shield, Magic Missile
HP: 19+4+1=24
Melee: +2+2+1+1-1=+5 to hit for 2d6+3+3+1
Ranged: Magic Missile
Equipment: +1 enchantment on sword.
Expected PA: 7/11 (3,000 max)
Sorcerer 3rd (BAB +2, CL 3rd), +1 STR, Grease, Identify, +1 HP (FavClass)
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze
1: Shield, Magic Missile, Identify (BL), True Strike
HP: 24+4+1+1+1=31
Melee: +2+4+1+1-1=+7 to hit for 2d6+6+3+1
Ranged: Magic Missile x2
Equipment: +2 STR Belt (first big purchase)
Expected PA: 12/16 (5,250 Max)
Sorcerer 4th (BAB +3, CL 4th), Still Spell, 1x 1st level spell (FavClass)
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze, Mending
1: Shield, Magic Missile, Identify, True Strike, Expeditious Retreat (FC)
2: Still Scorching Ray*, Still Shield*, Still Magic Missile*, Still Expeditious Retreat*
HP: 31+4+1+1=37
Melee: +3+4+1+1-1=+8 to hit for 2d6+6+3+1
Ranged: Still Magic Missile x2, or Scorching Ray at 3+2=+5 vs Touch AC
Equipment: Sash of the War Champion, MW Breastplate.
Expected PA: 17/21 (8,000 max)
Sorcerer 5th (BAB +3, CL 5th), 1x 1st level spell (FavClass)
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze, Mending
1: Shield, Magic Missile, Identify, True Strike*, Expeditious Retreat (FC),
Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement (FC)
2: Still Scorching Ray*, Still Grease*, Still Shield*, Still Magic Missile*, Still Expeditious Retreat*, Still Ray of Enfeeblement*, Protection From Arrows#, Invisibility (BL)
HP: 37+4+1+1=43
Melee: +3+4+1+1-1=+8 to hit for 2d6+6+3+1
Ranged: Still Magic Missile x3, or Scorching Ray at 3+2=+5 vs Touch AC
Equipment: Enchant bonded item as Ring of Spell Storing (lets me use up 3 of my 1st level spell slots any time I'm out of armor by pre-casting them.) 9,000 GP because this is the only item enchantment allowed in PFS rules.
Expected PA: 23/27 (11,750 max)
Sorcerer 6th (BAB +4, CL 6th), Toppling Spell, 1x 2nd level spell (FavClass)
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze, Mending, Detect Poison
1: Shield, Magic Missile, Identify, True Strike*, Expeditious Retreat (FC), Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement (FC)
2: Still Scorching Ray*, Still Grease*, Still Shield*, Still Magic Missile*, Still Expeditious Retreat*, Still Ray of Enfeeblement*, Protection From Arrows#, Invisibility (BL), Stone Call (FC)
3: Resist Energy (communal)#, Still Stone Call*, Still Toppling Magic Missile*, Still Invisibility*
HP: 43+4+1+1=49
Melee: +4+4+1+1-2=+8 to hit for 2d6+6+6+1.
Ranged: Still Magic Missile x3, or Scorching Ray at 4+2=+6 vs Touch AC
Equipment: +2 CHA circlet, Robe of Eldritch Heritage.
Eldritch Knight 1 (BAB +5, CL 7th): +1 CON, Arcane Strike,
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze, Mending, Detect Poison
1: Shield, Magic Missile, Identify, True Strike*, Expeditious Retreat (FC), Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement (FC)
2: Still Scorching Ray*, Still Grease*, Still Shield*, Still Magic Missile*, Still Expeditious Retreat*, Still Ray of Enfeeblement*, Protection From Arrows#, Invisibility (BL), Stone Call (FC),
3: Resist Energy (communal)#, Still Stone Call*, Still Toppling Magic Missile*, Still Invisibility*
HP: 49+6+1+1=56
Melee: +5+4+1+2-2=+9 to hit for 2d6+6+6+2+2.
Ranged: Still Magic Missile x4, or Scorching Ray x2 at 5+3=+8 vs Touch AC
Equipment: Improve STR belt to STR+CON belt; improve sword to +2.
Eldritch Knight 2 (BAB +6, CL 8th): Vital Strike.
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze, Mending, Detect Poison
1: Shield, Magic Missile, Identify, True Strike*, Expeditious Retreat (FC), Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement (FC)
2: Still Scorching Ray*, Still Grease*, Still Shield*, Still Magic Missile*, Still Expeditious Retreat*, Still Ray of Enfeeblement*, Protection From Arrows#, Invisibility (BL), Stone Call (FC), False Life##
3: Resist Energy (communal)#, Still Stone Call*, Still Toppling Magic Missile*, Displacement*, Still Invisibility*
HP: 56+6+1+1=64
Melee: +6+4+1+2-2=+11 to hit for 4d6+6+6+2+2, or +11/+6 to hit for 2d6+6+6+2+2
Ranged: Still Magic Missile x4, or Scorching Ray x2 at 6+3=+9 vs Touch AC
Equipment: Mithral Full Plate +1 or +2
Eldritch Knight 3 (BAB +7, CL 9th):
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze, Mending, Detect
Poison
1: Shield, Magic Missile, Identify, True Strike*, Expeditious Retreat (FC),
Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement (FC)
2: Still Scorching Ray*, Still Grease*, Still Shield*, Still Magic Missile*, Still Expeditious Retreat*, Still Ray of Enfeeblement*, Protection From Arrows#, Invisibility (BL), Stone Call (FC), False Life##
3: Resist Energy (communal)#, Still Stone Call*, Still Toppling Magic Missile*, Still Invisibility*, Displacement*
4: Dimension Door*
HP: 64+6+1+1=72
Melee: +7+4+1+3-2=+13 to hit for 4d6+6+6+3+2, or +13/+8 to hit for 1d10+6+6+4
Ranged: Still Magic Missile x5, or Still Scorching Ray x2 at 7+3=+10 vs Touch AC
Equipment: Enchant sword to +3, CHA circlet to +4, Enchant Armor.
Eldritch Knight 4 (BAB +8, CL 10th): Empower Spell
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze, Mending, Detect
Poison
1: Shield, Magic Missile, Identify, True Strike*, Expeditious Retreat (FC),
Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement (FC)
2: Still Scorching Ray*, Still Grease*, Still Shield*, Still Magic Missile*, Still Expeditious Retreat*, Still Ray of Enfeeblement*, Protection From Arrows#, Invisibility (BL), Stone Call (FC), False Life##
3: Resist Energy (communal)#, Still Stone Call*, Still Toppling Magic Missile*, Still Invisibility*, Displacement*, Lightning Bolt,
4: Dimension Door*, Still Lightning Bolt*, Still Empowered Scorching Ray*,
Melee: +8+4+1+4-3=+14 to hit for 4d6+6+9+4+3, or +14/+9 to hit for 2d6+6+9+4+3.
Ranged: Still Magic Missile x5, or Still Empowered Scorching Ray x2 at 8+3=+11 vs
Touch AC, or 10d6 Still Lightning Bolt at a save DC of 10+3+5+1=19
Equipment: Enchant sword to +4.
Eldritch Knight 5 (BAB+9, CL 11th): +1 CHA, Weapon Spec: Greatsword
0: Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze, Mending, Detect
Poison
1: Shield, Magic Missile, Identify, True Strike*, Expeditious Retreat (FC),
Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement (FC)
2: Still Scorching Ray*, Still Grease*, Still Shield*, Still Magic Missile*, Still Expeditious Retreat*, Still Ray of Enfeeblement*, Protection From Arrows#, Invisibility (BL), Stone Call (FC), False Life##
3: Resist Energy (communal)#, Still Stone Call*, Still Toppling Magic Missile*, Still Invisibility*, Displacement*, Lightning Bolt,
4: Dimension Door*, Still Lightning Bolt*, Still Empowered Scorching Ray*,
5: Stoneskin (communal)#, Still Empowered Stone Call*,Empowered Lightning Bolt,
Melee: +9+4+1+5-3=+16 to hit for 2d10+6+9+5+3+2, or +16/+11 to hit for
1d10+6+9+5+3+2.
Ranged: Still Magic Missile x5, or Still Empowered Scorching Ray x3 at 9+3=+12 vs Touch AC, or 10d6 Still Lightning Bolt at a save DC of 10+3+6+1=20
Equipment: Manual for +1 CHA.
Notes on Spells:
*: No Arcane Spell Failure Chance, either inherent to the spell or through Still Spell
#: Spell with a duration of 10 minutes per level; take off armor, cast, put armor back on.
##: Spell with a duration of 1 hour per level; take off armor, cast, put armor back on.
Swapping out Fighter 1 for Paladin 1 and 2 just moves everything down one level; after EK has run its course, it is worth it to take at least one more level of Sorcerer for the Bloodline Feat and the extra use of the 3rd level ability. It's not in the initial build because this is for Pathfinder Society, which has a level cap of 12.
Stone Call is an adequate substitute for Entangle; it works in more locations, and is almost as bad for messing up movement.
Priority was given to spells that can be cast out of armor with long durations, or spells that don't trigger ASF, for most of the spells for spell slots of 2 and higher. The major exception is Lightning Bolt, and may be better off being replaced with Haste in this build.
Still Spell is much more useful than Arcane Armor Training/Arcane Armor Mastery. It's one less feat and lets you cast in full armor. When combined with the Arcane Bloodline, the fact that you're getting +1 on save DCs with metamagically cast spells, and get to do one (and later two with the robe) metamagic spells as standard actions per day, it seems like a no brainer to me, plus get to cast one extra spell per day, is a no brainer. (The fact that enchanting a bonded item ring is the only item creation allowed in PFS is an incentive you don't have.)
This works for any bloodline, but the selling points of Arcane bloodline are pretty good.
This build is meant to rock hard on metamagically enhanced magic missiles and scorching rays.
I would routinely have two Shield spells and one Expeditious Retreat spells stored in the ring of spell storing; I'd prioritize getting a Ring of Wizardry type II to complement it; having 13 still scorching rays per day means never having to say you're sorry...
I like what I see. And I appreciate that you typed it all neatly like that :)
However,
1) The reason I did Paladin 2 was mostly for the bonus to saves as I said earlier. I also thought about Fighter 1 instead for the bonus feat (I also considered Barbarian 1 for rage lol). Also, Smite evil is a very nice 1/day pally ability, as it allows me to overcome any and all DR
2) I think that the Magical Knack trait is a must have for this type of character. A lot of spells and abilities scale with Caster Level. I know that it's banned in PFS, however I'm not in a PFS game so it doesn't matter.
3) I wanted to use the verdant bloodline due to story-related reasons (specifically, i had previously made a gish using pally and verdant sorc, so just in case my current character died, i wanted my other character to make a comeback...with a few improvements). Also, Barkskin. However, I do think that Arcane is superior now that you've listed those abilities
With that in Mind, would it be better to use the Sage Archetype to make spellcasting and all sorc abilities int-dependant?
4) I'm not a fan of vital strike. I used to be, but in practice I felt like it is not that great. The extra die from Vital Strike is used once, maybe twice, during a fight, due to having to pick between a full round attack action and a vital strike attack. Once you add the bonuses from stuff like Power Attack, my Str, etc, Vtal strike is severely lacking.
Well our current game goes up to lv16, and I think our next is going to 20
When you have CL5+, Arcane Strike is worthwhile (+2 damage; equal of weapon spec).
Arcane Armor Training need only go 1 step; The biggest point of having armor is to fill the slot and enhance the heck out of it. In the higher level game, armor-based AC is overshadowed by things like blink and mirror image. I'd rather have 1-2 more feats and higher movement than 1-4 more points of armor AC.
I understand why you went two levels into Paladin for the saves; this was my PFS build, and getting the save bonus, smite and lay on hands is probably worth it if your game is going to run past 12th level. Smite Evil only overcomes DR on evil creatures, so isn't useful against constructs, by the way.
Magical Knack is better than Magical Lineage in most cases...except for a build where you're going to be using a metamagic feat EVERY SINGLE TIME you cast. Which is the case here.
Magical Lineage lets this character start rocking Still Scorching Ray at 5th level rather than 7th, right about the time they get Sash of the War Champion. I focused on spells that are useful regardless of the caster level. There are a lot of them, but with Arcane bloodline arcana and religious use of Still Spell...it's not really a contest.
Barkskin should be the least of your considerations. There are Amulets of Natural Armor, and with this build, your armor goes to Mithral Full Plate eventually. Between those two, your AC is covered and can't be dispelled.
I think that Displacement is a better defensive spell than Barkskin in general. With this build, you're only going to get two bloodline spells - they should be part of your calculation, but low down on the list. I doubt my build is EVER going to use Identify in a PFS scenario...
Switching to a Sage archetype undermines the benefit of going to Paladin for your first two levels.
- Your bonus to hit and AC from Smite is based off of Cha.
- The number of Lay On Hands slappyheals is based on Cha + 1/2 Paladin level
- Divine Grace is based on Cha.
In return for giving up all of this, you give up the +1 to DC on saving throws in return for +2 on Spellcraft and Know (arcane) and get 2-3 more skill ranks per level, while NOT getting access to all of the Knowledge (x) skills. The build I gave is not a skill-monkey, unless you're comparing him to the Int 7, Cha 7 non-human Fighters with 1 skill rank per level. Then 3 skill ranks per level seems positively luxurious. :)
I'd rather have Arcane Bond and extra spell per day than a ranged touch attack that's like a nerfed Magic Missile. (While that's better than Draconic claws...at least Draconic gets Perception as a class skill.)
I am a moderate fan of Vital Strike for any "mobility fighter" build - and this character is a mobility fighter build. You don't want to cast adjacent to enemies; you're going to start fights using a ranged spell, or casting a buff or two (Displacement or Expeditious Retreat) and move in fast. Vital Strike + True Strike + Arcane Strike + Power Attack means you're not going to miss. While 4d6+16 isn't going to one-shot-kill most monsters at 9th level, when it's done after Scorching Raying them the previous round...it adds up.
That being said, I'd consider Lunge to be at least equal to it, and very very useful when combined with Expeditious Retreat and Fleet I.
I am surprised there were less questions about taking Fleet at 3rd level. It could easily be swapped for something else, Dodge perhaps. I find that when I'm making a mobile striker build, that extra 5' comes in very handy.
I am not convinced Toppling Spell is worth it for this build - not because the effect isn't awesome - but because you're going to have a Caster Level of -1 to your character level with this build (or equal in yours) and a casting stat of no higher than 16 before gearing up. The CMB of your Toppling Spell is Caster Level + Casting Stat - with the build given here, is going to be 6+3+1=+10 at character level 7th. CMDs of comparable opponents are going to be in the low to mid 20s.
The biggest problem with this build is that there are three short duration buffs that you want to have cast, and they eat into the action economy something fierce:
Shield
Expeditious Retreat
Displacement
Of the three, Shield is most important, followed by Displacement. Expeditious Retreat is good to have.
Vitally important is that Ring of Spell Storing on the bonded item; it lets you cycle your otherwise useless 1st level spell slots through the day.
The Toppling Spell issue is valid. I've used it before to great effect because there are 5 tries to trip a single foe (as far as i know that's how it works), but as i said before, it's better suited for a fighter/wizard build using trip feats.
I figured fleet was there for hit and run tactics. And you remind me that one time i tanked a monster with mirror image and it was hysterical. So yeah, you're right on that note. AC is not that important.
Do the Trip feats work with Toppling Spell? I've built a Toppling Spell Magic Missile spamming Sorcerer for PFS as my next character to try - check out my profile for my actives. (The build up above is one I did to see if I could make it work; I've got enough beat-stick characters that I'll hold off on starting this one out for a while.)
The third level and seventh level feats in this build are open for change (as is the 9th level feat, where you get access to combat feats with a BAB +6 pre-requisite. Vital Strike and Lunge are the two best choices there.)
Two interesting choices for those two feats are Dazzling Display (at 3rd, you already have Weapon Focus) and Intimidating Prowess at 7th.
It costs a precious, precious action, but you can crank Intimidate sky high, and have a high CHA and STR with this build. And then do a full round action to give everyone within 30' of you the Shaken condition, before casting something that requires a save. Shaken gives a -2 to hit and all saves; the Arcane bloodline gives anything you cast with a Still metamagic feat +1 DC; those two combined are effectively "Generic -3 to your saves."
Alternately, Spell Penetration at 3rd and Piercing Spell at 7th. (I so hate Spell Resistance, though this build at least has the option of "OK, my magic doesn't work, I can still beat you to death with my sword.")
Another fun possibility - replace the third level, seventh level and EK bonus feat at eighth with Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack.
+1 AC, and Expeditious Retreat suddenly becomes a LOT more powerful. Spring Attack does NOT let you use Vital Strike with it, so...not quite as fun as it could be.
In re-reading Fleet, it looks like when you get the Mithral Full Plate, Fleet stops working because it says "Light or no armor" and Mithral Full Plate is medium, which due to the Fighter level and Sash of the War Champion, you get to move full speed in due to Armor Training. So Fleet stops being useful (or you stop at Mithral Breastplate for armor). I suspect most GMs would house rule it, though.
(That's one advantage of the Fighter version of this over the Paladin version - Armor Training rocks.)
I'm p sure they do...I don't see why not
Would you actually burn two feats (Combat Expertise, then Improved Trip) on a Wizard to improve the CMB of this trip attack when you're already getting it at INT Bonus + Caster Level?
The thing I like about Toppling Spell + Magic Missile is that Magic Missile lets you target each missile at a separate target - multiple trip attempts per turn, no miss chance short of total concealment, and its actually beneficial to throw it at opponents your melee buddies are engaged with...
Oh - two other options for that last 12th level feat in the build I put up:
1) Critical Mastery - you'll have BAB 9 and a Combat Feat ready to happen.
2) Disruptive - You've got 6 levels of fighter right there...
On a wizard, no.
On a fighter/wiz gish? probably. Denying them a move action and running up to them to make provoke if they move up is too nice to pass up. Esp since later on there are creatures with bonuses against trip
Since we're talking also about hit and run tactics, would spring attack work if you are flying? I dont think I saw anything in the rules against it. I mean it's 3 feats for essentially flyby attack
I see my Magic Missile Spamming Sorcerer (build is Nasir al-Mardani as someone who knocks people over while they're engaged with other combatants. I keep trying to fit two (or three) more feats and a 13 INT into the build and...it's not really making sense.
Is giving up 1 more HP per level (going from CON 14 to CON 12) to gain INT 13 (and 1 more Skill Point) and the ability to take two of those three feats worth it for PFS? Not sure yet. It's certainly not worth giving up my CHA of 20. :)
Well if you have a sorcerer, then you're already using your full CL, with 5 cha, your "CMB" to trip w toppling magic missile is already CL+5, do you don't really have to go for the feats. Expect to miss, but it won't be uncommon of you to trip, which is what matters in the end.
Really, the only feat aside from toppling spell you may want to cram is Spontaneous focus, and that's only if you really care that mych about having a move action
I had not been aware of that feat; I think it's going to go on my EK build up above...
yeah...now you can trip and then run up to them should they provoke :D
yeah...now you can trip and then run up to them should they provoke :D
For my dedicated Sorcerer, no. Now I trip them, and move farther away so that I can keep combat at a nice, civilized distance of 75 feet or more, and where my friends can carve them into chutney.
For my EK build, it means I can cast Expeditious Retreat from the ring of spell storing in the surprise round, move 60 feet into Scorching Ray range, and let fly a Still Scorching Ray at 5th level.
Later on that turns into a Still Empowered Scorching Ray that goes out to 55 feet. 4d6*1.5 for two (and later three) ranged touch attacks with a to-hit mod of around +12 doesn't suck...
so...spring attack + Fly = Flyby attack? :D