Two of my favorite tropes. In my homebrew campaign setting I want to invoke them heavily. I already have a couple ideas (Change always X alignment to almost always x alignment in all cases, even outsiders with an alignment subtype, and remove the connection between color and alignment with dragons, for instance), but I'd love to hear ideas from you guys for dark is not evil and light is not good monsters.
Now, this doesn't mean dark is good or light is evil. There will still be plenty of evil dark monsters or good light monsters. It's just that I want to greatly increase the number of good or neutral dark and neutral or evil light monsters.
I'm also tweaking domains like sun, darkness, and the like to be alignment neutral, but I don't need help with that part.
*blink*
HI TOZ!
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Reminds me of a book series I read awhile ago. The saga Recluce by L.E. Modesitt.
There are two types of magic. Order magic which is associated with black (think lawful and organized but people tend to think of it as good magic even if it isn't necessarily). Chaos magic wich is associated with white (think chaoticly random and people tend to think of it as evil even though it might not be).
Like the Angels from DnD 4e?
D&D 4e angels are too varied to count, I think.
There are both good and evil ones. Also, I would like to see a god with the Darkness domain and a Good alignment after seeing the Demon Lord Nurgal in Pathfinder, the first ever (not sure actually) Evil deity to have the Sun domain that I know of.
My advice:
Go onto the internets. Look up everything you can about the second-greatest game world AD&D ever created, Planescape. Make with the thieving.
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Two of my favorite tropes. In my homebrew campaign setting I want to invoke them heavily. I already have a couple ideas (Change always X alignment to almost always x alignment in all cases, even outsiders with an alignment subtype, and remove the connection between color and alignment with dragons, for instance), but I'd love to hear ideas from you guys for dark is not evil and light is not good monsters.
Now, this doesn't mean dark is good or light is evil. There will still be plenty of evil dark monsters or good light monsters. It's just that I want to greatly increase the number of good or neutral dark and neutral or evil light monsters.
I'm also tweaking domains like sun, darkness, and the like to be alignment neutral, but I don't need help with that part.
A desert setting, where the sun is harsh and unforgiving, and 'life comes out at night,' under the shelter of darkness, would be a place where such a place. A gentle goddess of succor and surcease would govern the night hours, a being of playful mystery, and chaotic good nature. A cruel and judgemental 'all-seeing eye' who 'burns the weak' with his fiery gaze would be the lawful and evil sun god.
Angelic servants of the night-goddess might have all-concealing hooded cloaks, that may drape over those afflicted with sunstroke or heat exhaustion, to heal their wounds, rehydrate their bodies and conceal them from the burning gaze of the cruel sun. Under their cloaks, their bodies would remain always in shadow, although their cloaks can be stripped away, and a night-servant whose cloak has been stolen is at the mercy of the sun (not that it has any), if she can't find cover.
Diabolic servants of the sun-god would carry hot chains, and be cruel judges and slavers, deeming those found weak and stricken by the sun's rays to be their property, judged unfit to be anything other than slaves, by the all-seeing eye. Their own forms would be burned, but the masses of scar-tissue covering them would somehow protect them from the rays of the sun, and they would wear only scant protection, proudly showing their burned flesh as sign of how they have been purified and judged worthy to survive the harsh light of day.
The sun-servants would see the servants of the night as lazy and dissipated and weak, serving a pathetic goddess of indolence and comfort and respite, while they serve the lawmaker and the builder of great things, who toil under the sun to build monuments to his glory. They would also regard her servants as treacherous and false, hiding under their cloaks and scurrying about under cover of night, concealing their movements from the all-seeing eye, rightfully fearing the judgement to come, which they will not be able to avoid forever, especially if the sun-slavers get ahold of them and drag them from the darkness...
Even in a non-desert society, a society that have slavers and inquisitors (such as Cheliax) would likely have some association between cover of night and a respite from slavers and inquisitors. The Bellflower Network probably does the vast majority of its slave-freeing operations at night, and an angelic (or azatan) creature sent to help cloud the eyes of those who would seek them out, or call up fogs to obscure their passage, or send a cloud over the bright moon to deepen the shadows, could be a welcome ally to an operative attempting to smuggle some slaves across the border into Andoran. Since Asmodeus is associated both with fire and law and with a ruthlessly nosy inquisition rooting out heresy, the underclasses of Cheliax may well find the 'light' to be an unwelcome thing, bringing with it the torches of the Hellknights and the unfriendly eyes of those who stand ready to report others to advance their own fortunes.
Fiendish template fire elementals that appear as searing columns of light could be used in the prisons of Cheliax, to burn 'the truth' from those accused of crimes against the state. Smaller versions might be able to fly (mix of air and fire elemental stats, with the fiendish template), and be mistaken for lantern archons, by the unsuspecting...
Minor Azata with black peacock feathered wings could work with the Bellflowers, able to either fly with a single person, or shelter a group of up to four under its wings, while walking, sharing it's own natural concealment (and immunity to divination spells) with those it 'harbors.' If attacked, it can brush it's wings across another's eyes as a touch attack, afflicting them with a blindness spell that turns their eyes solid black, affording itself and its charges time to escape from their now-blinded pursuers.
Creatures associated with sleep, dreams, respite, hiding from danger, protecting the weak, resisting tyranny, etc. could all be associated with darkness, while being good in nature.
Milani, for instance, is a CG goddess associated with resisting tyranny who has nothing to do with light or the sun, and whose followers tend to have to live in hiding and gather under cover of darkness, if part of an oppressive society. Tweak Milani to have the Darkness Domain, and she's a perfect fit.
Desna, goddess of dreams and the stars, among other things, is another good 'night' goddess, of sorts, although she also doesn't have Darkness (and, like most extreme-aligned gods, has two of her Domain slots eaten up by Chaos and Good, giving her less thematic versatility than a neutral god would have).
Night and the dark are often feared because a person *doesn't know what's out there,* and their fears and anxieties can prove more dangerous than what is really making that noise they can't identify. Light strips away all of that mystery and terror, revealing the mundane truth. Night creatures might thrive on that mystery, and have powers that only function when they aren't clearly seen, or remain at least partially obscured, to be stripped away if some sort of magical illumination (or even mundane light source, for weaker creatures) strips away their cover of darkness, 'outing' them as much smaller and weaker creatures than they seemed to be, under cover of night. (Using shadow magic creatures, doing full damage under concealment, but only 20% damage when revealed, is a quick and dirty way to do this.)
I do believe that aside from the alignment domains, all domains are alignment neutral. although some may have leanings do to certain spells.
I'm also tweaking domains like sun, darkness, and the like to be alignment neutral, but I don't need help with that part.
Nope. The darkness domain has spells with the evil descriptor, and James Jacobs confirmed that this is why we will not see a good Pathfinder deity with the darkness domain. A cleric or other domain possessing character of such a domain would be prevented from using some domain spells, which would nerf the character a bit. I intent to go through each domain and remove all spells with an alignment descriptor from non-alignment based domains and replace them with spells that lack alignment descriptors.
It's funny how James talked about that, yet admitted that the tweakings made to Pharasma's Death domain (and some of the sub-domains) are PFS canon and play. I call hypocrisy and favouritism on his account. Besides, he never objected to the fact that the Shadowdancer makes an exception with it's Shade companion (normal Shades are Neutral Evil, the Shade that a Shadowdancer has matches alignment with its owner)
Nope. The darkness domain has spells with the evil descriptor, and James Jacobs confirmed that this is why we will not see a good Pathfinder deity with the darkness domain.
I took a quick look at the the darkness domain, and the only evil spell is "Summon Monster V (1d3 shadows only)". Change the shadows in the same way as the shadowdancer prestige class did, and there are no more evil spells.
And apparently, they changed their minds; the Dragon Empires Gazeteer has a good god with the darkness domain.
[Insert rant on the subject of "shadows shouldn't be undead in the first place."]
Light is not good. Let's think about it... Oh, yeah, certain Lightbringer comes to mind.
During our previous D&D campaign party Cleric/Radiant Soul Of Pelor was reincarnated as half-orc and then drew random effect (Deck Of Many Things or something like that) that shifted her alignement to Lawful Evil... Just before the campaign ended and becoming sun god in place of her patron.
So now, in our current D&D campaign, we have stern, cruel and unforgiving dual-faced good aasimar/evil orc solar goddess that occasionally demands mortal sacrifices (a la Mezoamerican deities). Thankfully only once or twice per year.
It's funny how James talked about that, yet admitted that the tweakings made to Pharasma's Death domain (and some of the sub-domains) are PFS canon and play. I call hypocrisy and favouritism on his account. Besides, he never objected to the fact that the Shadowdancer makes an exception with it's Shade companion (normal Shades are Neutral Evil, the Shade that a Shadowdancer has matches alignment with its owner)
Shhh... When Pathfinder v2.0 comes out this that might change!
Shadowdancer is one of my favorite classes I would love to play next. Probably full BAB into the PrC.
You know, this whole "dark is good/light is evil" trope is old by now. Can we go back to what was before? ;-)
I got another idea.
Necromancers.Necromancers that are evil.
You know, this whole "dark is good/light is evil" trope is old by now. Can we go back to what was before? ;-)
I'm not using dark is good or light is evil, as there will still be plenty of evil dark and good light monsters and characters. I'm just making good dark and evil light a bit more prevalent.
You know what's old? That avatar of yours. :P
Your just jealous because there isn't an avatar of your mom.
Holy, THAT opens amazing new venues. For example they could, you know, use negative energy to actually hurt someone!You know, this whole "dark is good/light is evil" trope is old by now. Can we go back to what was before? ;-)I got another idea.
Necromancers.
Necromancers that are evil.
And animate dead stuff to do something besides menial farm/factory labor. I mean, what are peasants for anyway?
Ooh. This gave me a brainstorm: evil orcs. That are perfectly understood.
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And animate dead stuff to do something besides menial farm/factory labor. I mean, what are peasants for anyway?Holy, THAT opens amazing new venues. For example they could, you know, use negative energy to actually hurt someone!You know, this whole "dark is good/light is evil" trope is old by now. Can we go back to what was before? ;-)I got another idea.
Necromancers.
Necromancers that are evil.
EVIL undead? No, please, stop, my brain is blown. I'm sure if you told that to Gygax he would roll on the floor laughing.
...I still intend for the creation of undead to be an evil act.
Always evil orcs, however, are a no. I like Blizzard orcs, and want to use something like of like that.
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Someone message Beckett!Well, nobody mentioned Cleric heavy armor proficiency yet...Man, this thread is full of vintage things...You know what's old? That avatar of yours. :PYour just jealous because there isn't an avatar of your mom.
Is there a CODzooky?
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And apparently, they changed their minds; the Dragon Empires Gazeteer has a good god with the darkness domain.
1. THANK GOD. Finally! :D
2. I really need to get clearance from our Jade Regent DM to read that book.
Light is not good. Let's think about it... Oh, yeah, certain Lightbringer comes to mind.
Still the number one example of that trope.
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Still the number one example of that trope.Light is not good. Let's think about it... Oh, yeah, certain Lightbringer comes to mind.
Depends on which interpretation.
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My advice:
Go onto the internets. Look up everything you can about the second-greatest game world AD&D ever created, Planescape. Make with the thieving.
The busen were great for this. Benign oil-black slime-(sometimes)humanoids creatures that could harden and weaponize their pseudopods. Generally peaceful. Lived in Arcadia IIRC.
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Depends on which interpretation.
Still the number one example of that trope.Light is not good. Let's think about it... Oh, yeah, certain Lightbringer comes to mind.
Vertigo/Mike Carey's Lucifer am best Lucifer.
Constantine movie Lucifer maybe not so much
Vertigo/Mike Carey's Lucifer am best Lucifer.
Or, if my friend was here it could be AMY LUCIFER - as Lucifer in her WoD game was taking the shape of a young girl.
You dare summon me? You do know who I am, do you not?
Oh my, whole 3 minutes... Uh, wait, is it certainly AM LUCIFER and not AMY LUCIFER?
Quite certainly. I may not type in all capital letters using horrid grammar like my pigheaded cousins (there is a reason I am the mistress of Hell and AM BARBARIAN is not), but I most certainly am Lucifer.
Why, yes, Lucifer is a woman. Did you honestly expect me to be a man?
I still use some Dark is Evil and Light is Good examples in my campaigns too. After all, Sarenrae and Pelor are still Neutral Good. And most necromancers ARE evil, just like MOST (not ALL) orcs are still insane evil barbarians. Of course, I also like to reverse those situations SOMETIMES.
Anyway, did someone say Good-aligned Deity with Darkness domain?!
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Dragon Empires Gazeteer. Page 63.
Tsukiyo, Prince of the Moon
LG god of jade, the moon and spirits
Domains: Darkness,Good, Law, Madness, Repose
He's the Osiris of Dragon Empires. Lover of the Sun Goddess, killed by his jealous evil brother and resurrected. It's also the first time I can recall a good deity with the madness domain.
I am not sure, but I think I read about some Aztec deities who wanted to do Good things for Humanity, but required the sacrifices to do so. I really need to read into Aztec myths better.
Quite certainly. I may not type in all capital letters using horrid grammar like my pigheaded cousins (there is a reason I am the mistress of Hell and AM BARBARIAN is not), but I most certainly am Lucifer.
Why, yes, Lucifer is a woman. Did you honestly expect me to be a man?
Hm, both actually, or neither.
Let's see... Satan?