Asphere
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Is a Summoner's Eidolon allowed to select feats from the Monster Feats list? If so, at level 5 couldn't an Eidolon that comes with a bite attack spend evolution points on "Improved Damage" and "Large", and then select the Monster Feat "Improved Natural Damage" to net a total of 3d6 + 1.5*(Strength Mod) per successful single bite attack? That seems way too high for level 5.
| Grick |
Is a Summoner's Eidolon allowed to select feats from the Monster Feats list?
If the DM allows it.
at level 5 couldn't an Eidolon that comes with a bite attack spend evolution points on "Improved Damage" and "Large", and then select the Monster Feat "Improved Natural Damage" to net a total of 3d6 + 1.5*(Strength Mod) per successful single bite attack? That seems way too high for level 5.
Large (Ex): "The summoner must be at least 8th level before selecting this evolution."
| Astral Wanderer |
Given that the GM allows the monster feats, there's a rule that similar effects do not stack, so the Improved Damage evolution and the Improved Natural Weapon feat should not stack, as much as Improved Critical doesn't stack with the Keen special ability.
Despite that, the feat or the evolution, whichever of the two you pick, should stack with the standard damage increase from increased size, like for any creature in the Bestiaries.
| Devilkiller |
Obviously you should have your DM's permission to take any feat, but to me the idea that feats in the Bestiary "are for monsters not PCs" seems like a misconception caused by the fact that they're banned in PFS organized play. It seems clear to me that at least some Monster feats are intended for use by PCs. To this point, some of the Bestiary feats are listed as in thee Core book as feats a Druid's animal companion can take, and some are listed in the APG as feats which a Ranger who selects the natural weapon style can take.
That said, if the DM does allow all the relevant classes, feats, and evolutions I think that they'd stack. Bonuses of the same type don't stack, but I don't know that the die increase from INA is a "bonus", and if so it seems like it would be an unnamed bonus (which stack anyhow). I believe that Improved Critical not working with Keen might be a special case anyhow as it is specifically pointed out in the rules for Imp Crit.
PRD says:
"Improved Critical (Combat)
Attacks made with your chosen weapon are quite deadly.
Prerequisite: Proficient with weapon, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: When using the weapon you selected, your threat range is doubled.
Special: You can gain Improved Critical multiple times. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
This effect doesn't stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon."
As an aside, if you're allowing APG material then Druids probably have access to Strong Jaw, a spell which bumps the damage die for all of a creature's natural weapons up by two sizes. I don't think that there's anything unusual about 3d6 damage at 8th level.
| Astral Wanderer |
I believe that Improved Critical not working with Keen might be a special case anyhow as it is specifically pointed out in the rules for Imp Crit.
Conflicting with that, is the fact that there's plenty of cases where it is specifically pointed out the opposite: that two effects or bonuses do stack. See, for example, Greater Spell Focus: untyped bonus that should virtually already stack by default, and yet it is specified that it in fact does, just to dissipate doubts.
So, since we know that rules are always bent towards not overpowering, it is best to always consider abilities that have the same effects to not stack, unless otherwise noted.Other than that, I think everyone can honestly see that the evolution and the feat are exactly the same thing, only achieved by different means, letting you choose if you either want to spend a feat and keep evolution points for something else or rather spend the evolution points and leave the feat slot free for something else.
Of course, if in a future reprint of the Advanced Player's Guide this thing gets a clear errata about combining the two things in question, it would be a good thing.
| Bobson |
The problem with allowing them to stack is the question of what 2d6 becomes. INA increases it to 3d6. The weapon size charts (which are probably the default rule) increase it to 2d8, which puts it on the alternate track for INA. Thus if you have a 1d8 natural attack (such as a slam), and you apply both, you could end up with either 3d6 or 2d8.