What is the range of Form of the Dragon's frightful presence?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What is the range of Form of the Dragon III's frightful presence? Is it 300 feet like most huge dragons? Or is it 30 feet like what it says in the Bestiary's Universal Monster Rules section?

Grand Lodge

The range is 30 feet as per the description of the ability. You're not a true dragon with these spells, you're wearing a dragon suit and like any other polymorph spells as you the RAW Meister would know, what you get is limited by what the spell effect specifically describes.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What description? The spell doesn't give a range for frightful presence.

(Bringing this up again because it's come up in game again.)


30 feet. The dragon's frightful presence is 30 feet x the age category. If the spell gave you an age category, I'd say use the dragon one. Otherwise, use the 30 feet as state in the universal monster rules.


Generally polymorph spells that don't specify a new value for the caster's new form, it uses the actual creature's value. As such, it seems like it would be pretty easy to figure out the range of the frightful presence for whatever age of dragon you polymorphed into. Just look up the youngest dragon of that kind that is the appropriate size, and use its range.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That would make it 300 feet Dominigo.


But it only works with LoS/LoE doesn't it?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Any word yet on what the RAW/RAI is on this?

Grand Lodge

I was wrong before. Form of the Dragon follows the generic rules of polymorph spells.

If the ability is not in the spell package you don't get it no matter what creature you turn into. Since the spell does not have Frightful Presence, you don't get it at all.

Text of the spell below:


You become a Medium chromatic or metallic dragon. You gain a +4 size bonus to Strength, a +2 size bonus to Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus, fly 60 feet (poor), darkvision 60 feet, a breath weapon, and resistance to one element. You also gain one bite (1d8), two claws (1d6), and two wing attacks (1d4). Your breath weapon and resistance depend on the type of dragon. You can only use the breath weapon once per casting of this spell. All breath weapons deal 6d8 points of damage and allow a Reflex save for half damage. In addition, some of the dragon types grant additional abilities, as noted below.

Black dragon: 60-foot line of acid, resist acid 20, swim 60 feet

Blue dragon: 60-foot line of electricity, resist electricity 20, burrow 20 feet

Green dragon: 30-foot cone of acid, resist acid 20, swim 40 feet

Red dragon: 30-foot cone of fire, resist fire 30, vulnerability to cold

White dragon: 30-foot cone of cold, resist cold 20, swim 60 feet, vulnerability to fire

Brass dragon: 60-foot line of fire, resist fire 20, burrow 30 feet, vulnerability to cold

Bronze dragon: 60-foot line of electricity, resist electricity 20, swim 60 feet

Copper dragon: 60-foot line of acid, resist acid 20, spider climb (always active)

Gold dragon: 30-foot cone of fire, resist fire 20, swim 60 feet

Silver dragon: 30-foot cone of cold, resist cold 30, vulnerability to fire


FotD III does give you frightful presence - otherwise I'm with Dominigo on this

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Frightful Presence wrote:


Frightful Presence (Ex)

This special quality makes a creature’s very presence unsettling to foes. Activating this ability is a free action that is usually part of an attack or charge. Opponents within range who witness the action may become frightened or shaken. The range is usually 30 feet, and the duration is usually 5d6 rounds. This ability affects only opponents with fewer Hit Dice than the creature has. An opponent can resist the effects with a successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the frightful creature’s racial HD + the frightful creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). On a failed save, the opponent is shaken, or panicked if it has 4 Hit Dice or fewer. An opponent that succeeds on the saving throw is immune to that same creature’s frightful presence for 24 hours. Frightful presence is a mind-affecting fear effect.

Format: frightful presence (60 ft., DC 21); Location: Aura.

The bolded parts are what I would use for the frightful presence ability, since you don't get an age category when you use the spell. So, 30ft range, 5d6 rounds.

Grand Lodge

Spell just lists the ability with no qualifiers so I'd go with Cartman's answer which is only for the Form 3 spell.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It looks to me like the only way to remain consistent on the issue.


LazarX wrote:

Frightful Presence (Ex)

This special quality makes a creature’s very presence unsettling to foes. Activating this ability is a free action that is usually part of an attack or charge. Opponents within range who witness the action may become frightened or shaken. The range is usually 30 feet, and the duration is usually 5d6 rounds. This ability affects only opponents with fewer Hit Dice than the creature has. An opponent can resist the effects with a successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the frightful creature’s racial HD + the frightful creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). On a failed save, the opponent is shaken, or panicked if it has 4 Hit Dice or fewer. An opponent that succeeds on the saving throw is immune to that same creature’s frightful presence for 24 hours. Frightful presence is a mind-affecting fear effect.

Format: frightful presence (60 ft., DC 21); Location: Aura.

I'm resurrecting an old thread because I didn't see an answer to my question elsewhere. I have a question about factoring a PC's hit dice into the save for Frightful Presence. For a PC using Form of Dragon III, PC's normally don't have racial hit dice, right? They have hit dice based on class. So would the PC be able to add 1/2 the total of their hit dice, or does that part of the save not apply because the PC does not have racial hit dice?


And a follow up question; can a dragon choose to not have the Frightful Presence Aura active? Like turn it on and off?


Golgathar wrote:
And a follow up question; can a dragon choose to not have the Frightful Presence Aura active? Like turn it on and off?

Read the general rules quoted above, it is a free action to activate.


Golgathar wrote:


I'm resurrecting an old thread because I didn't see an answer to my question elsewhere. I have a question about factoring a PC's hit dice into the save for Frightful Presence. For a PC using Form of Dragon III, PC's normally don't have racial hit dice, right? They have hit dice based on class. So would the PC be able to add 1/2 the total of their hit dice, or does that part of the save not apply because the PC does not have racial hit dice?
CRB magic - polymorph wrote:
The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

Your HD as a PC transformed into a dragon does not affect the DC, you use the DC of the spell you are using (18+relevant spell casting modifier for FotD III).

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