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Okay, my PC asked me a question here.
If all actions are supposed to happen simultaneously then he would like to know about the below scenario.
If player A is flanking monster B and player C spring attacks in then player C gets flanking. Right? Well if everything happens simultaneously then would player A also get the flanking bonus after player C spring attacks in? I personally said no, but his argument is in the Flat Footed section it says that you are flat footed until you act in combat. So in theory just as if Player A and Player C BOTH hit the flat footed monster because he hasn't acted yet, then so should the flanking apply. Because otherwise after Player A hits the monster he shouldn't be flat footed anymore because he is aware of combat.
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If all actions are supposed to happen simultaneously then he would like to know about the below scenario.
His premise is mistaken. All actions during combat happen in a definite order and are not simultaneous. A creature only gets a flanking bonus if its enemy is threatened by an ally at the moment when it makes its attack. Nor can a creature split its turn and allow others to act, except by defined actions such as readying and immediate actions.
A creature remains flat-footed until it has its turn to act - it can certainly be aware of combat but still flat-footed.
The game simulates simultaneity by breaking down actions into sequential choices. Really, the intention is that each PC/NPC/monster is acting at the same time but not that everything they do happens at the exact same instant.
Forget flat-footed for a moment. Assume everyone is alert and ready to fight.
The spring-attacker gets a flanking bonus because the simulation rules say so. To break that out into "reality", the moment he swings, his target is distracted.
The flanking partner does not because at the particular moment he takes his swing, the spring-attacker has either not yet arrived or is already receding. To break that out into "reality", the moment he swings, the target is either not yet worried about the spring-attacker or has dismissed that threat as no-longer-a-threat.
To bring in the flat-footed discussion, what that simulates is combat-readiness, not awareness. If the initiative calls for C then A then B, the monster remains flat-footed until its turn. Once again because that's what the simulation rules state. In "reality" it's because A and C "got the jump" on the monster. It might well be aware they're there and even hostile, but it's not ready for them. It needs some time to inhale before its breath attack, or to get its clawed arms into a combat position from the gesturing-while-speaking position they're in or... whatever. It's not ready.
Basically if you follow the rules the game works just fine. It even models reality reasonably well.
The rules say you get a flanking bonus if there's a flanking partner when you attack. They say you're flat-footed until your turn. Go with those rules. If your players want/need a little illustration what usually works best is to imagine the simultaneous actions being measured with very, very fine decimal accuracy. A and C don't attack literally at the same moment. Very, very close but six seconds is a long time when you're paying attention in tenths of a second.
Finally, my best advice is to keep in the back of your head that it's a game. Nobody complains about the realism of the rules of Monopoly. Why? Because they're so astoundingly not even vaguely realistic that nobody tries to turn it into anything but a game. D&D is so good at modeling a complicated combat that people start getting nit-picky when things aren't perfect. Let the little stuff go and remember it's a game.
I am confused by the discussion of being flat footed. If you want to flank with a Spring Attacker who does not remain adjacent to the monster after his or her attack then you'd have to ready an action to hit the monster when one of your allies moves into flank. This would mean getting just a single attack instead of a full attack, but I'd think it should work.
I am confused by the discussion of being flat footed. If you want to flank with a Spring Attacker who does not remain adjacent to the monster after his or her attack then you'd have to ready an action to hit the monster when one of your allies moves into flank. This would mean getting just a single attack instead of a full attack, but I'd think it should work.
The flat-footed discussion isn't directly related to the flanking discussion. Ossian's player - as far as I can tell - noticed that if a monster is flat-footed and attacked by two PCs, it stays flat-footed until its turn. Ergo the two attacks must be happening at the same time, right? Otherwise the monster would be "aware of combat" and stop being flat-footed after the first attack is made. The player then tried to apply that "same time" logic to give both PCs flanking bonuses even though one has spring-attacked and left the flanking position.
The player got it wrong as to what flat-footed represents. That's all.