| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Can you ignore the caster level prerequisite for making constructs such as golems (such as needing to be caster level 14th for a stone golem) by simply adding +5 to the Craft/Spellcraft DC? Or does that rule only apply to spell prerequisites?
On a similar note, can my 5th-level caster make a +4 suit of armor by upping the DC by 5 (for not having a caster level of 12)?
|
Per the rules yes
Quote:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion items without meeting its prerequisites.
1) It's debatable whether or not a construct is a magical item. If it is considered a magical item for creation purposes, then yes. If it's not, then no. It seems they aren't held to the same standards as magic items, so I'm thinking that by RAI that's a "no", but I see no logical reason for this to be (unless they're awakened somehow, thus having a "soul").
2) And, as noted, it's theoretically possible. Keep in mind that failing the check nets a cursed item and, if I recall (though I could be wrong), you don't get to make that roll, so you won't know.
|
|
Creating magic armor and weaponshas a special prerequisite: The reator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met. Magic armor or a magic shield must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any armor or shield special abilities.
I would say no, you can't make a +4 suit of armor at CL 5 by adding a +5. But I know that other people has a different opinion.
I thought it is +5 for each thing you do not have so caster level 5 and need 12 is short 7. 7 time 5 = 35 add to the DC.
Yes, you can. You can bypass everything in the Requirements section other than the necessary feat by adding +5 to the DC to make. In general, you do not need to meet the CL of the item unless it is in the requirements section. This has been clarified by SKR in a FAQ about pearls of power.
Magical Arms and Armor have some weird thing about needing to meet the caster level requirements. Constructs do not.
I can't wait for them to re-do the crafting rules.
Yes, you can. You can bypass everything in the Requirements section other than the necessary feat by adding +5 to the DC to make. In general, you do not need to meet the CL of the item unless it is in the requirements section. This has been clarified by SKR in a FAQ about pearls of power.
Magical Arms and Armor have some weird thing about needing to meet the caster level requirements. Constructs do not.
I can't wait for them to re-do the crafting rules.
So according to SKR there is an "unmentioned prerequisite" of needing to be high enough level to cast the spells?
So if I have a CL 10 item with 3 spells (which I'm not high enough level to even cast), the DC would be 35 (15 base, +5 for each spell, +5 for not being high enough to cast the spells).
That seems like a double dip penalty to me and is wholly unsupported in the RAW as far as I can tell.
If it's true, one could interpret it as a double dip penalty for EACH missing spell, making the DC 45 for the above example (+16 for not casting the spells, and +15 for not being powerful enough to cast the spells).
I just don't think that's correct, or right.
I believe the last sentence of the first paragraph refers just to pearls of power.
Cheapy, I'm not sure that Golems count as magic items. That's the thing here: I don't believe they do. In which case, that ruling doesn't apply.
IF they do, I'd say the rule does. And Ravingdork, if you disagree... well, you're free to, but that's their conclusion and presentation. Honestly, it makes sense. Penalties usually stack (unless you're applying them to an enemy) - these penalties don't even have a type. This is just another example of that.
Edit: to clarify, I don't believe the rules treat golems as magic items, but instead as creatures. I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.
Who would've thunk that reading the rules explains this situation?
Clearly not I when I originally posted.
Building and Modifying Constructs from UM
The DC to craft a construct is 5 + the default caster level of the construct, just like for a magic item. Like when crafting magic items, a creator with a sufficiently high skill bonus may ignore these requirements. Each missing requirement increases the Craft DC by 5. Regardless, the creator must meet all item creation feats and minimum caster level requirements.
There you go, rules ironclad written out. You cannot bypass the caster level requirement by adding +5.
NICE! Okay, so I'm wrong. Thanks, Cheapy!
*Hugs Cheapy*
Thanks buddy! I can't believe I had forgotten about that!
First time I've seen people happy over finding out they can't bypass pre-requisites. :)
EDIT : Caster Level pre-requisites that is
"Caster level prerequisites for constructs only" that is :)
What about other magical items? I've hear people say you can't skip out on the special caster level prerequisite on armor and weapons since they aren't listed in the requirements section, but elsewhere.
Does anyone know if that's true? If so, what about bracers of armor and cloaks of resistance?
I can't say anything with confidence about magical armor and weapons, although I believe that you can't bypass them since it says you must meet the CL.
For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.
Wondrous Items? You don't need to meet the CL of the item, as the FAQ listed above mentions (somewhat indirectly).
What is funny is while you can't bypass the caster level requirements if you can manage to have a caster level without having anything else you can craft a golem.
What is funny is while you can't bypass the caster level requirements if you can manage to have a caster level without having anything else you can craft a golem.
Yeah. I keep telling one of my fellow players that he doesn't need animate object in order to craft an animated object with the Craft Construct feat.
Gonna have to bump this, because it seems unclear—by "minimum caster level requirement", it could mean one of two things to me:
Glass Golem
CL 10th; Price 33,000 gp (glass); 39,400 (stained glass)
Construction
Requirements Craft Construct, animate objects, flame strike, geas/quest, spell turning, creator must be caster level 10th; Skill Craft (sculptures) DC 17; Cost 17,000 gp (glass golem); 20,200 gp (stained glass golem)
So, does the rule refer to both, or just the second item? If it's both, it seems weird that they would note it twice.
Well, "necromance" might be a fairer verb...
Alright, that's kinda what I figured. Thanks!