Is a natural 20 on a skill check automatic success?


Rules Questions


Thankee.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

No, it is not.
The same that a 1 is not an automatic failure on on a skill check.


No. Only saving throws and attack rolls have any rules for automatic failure and success.

Dark Archive

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As above, but easily illustrated by trying to jump to the moon as an acrobatics check. If any character can successfully jump to the moon with a 5% success rate, there should be a whole lot of dead people on the moon.

Silver Crusade

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Mergy wrote:
As above, but easily illustrated by trying to jump to the moon as an acrobatics check. If any character can successfully jump to the moon with a 5% success rate, there should be a whole lot of dead people on the moon.

On the other hand, having a 5% chance of hitting the moon with a bow and arrow is entirely realistic.


Thanks. Now that that's clear, is this house rule reasonable?

"If you fail a knowledge check, you may retry it by making use of a library. There are many different types of library, such as public school and university libraries, public libraries, privately owned libraries, and so on. If you have access to a library you may take 20 on your knowledge check by spending 1d4 hours reading. A library may not cover the topic you are looking for. For example, a medical university may have a library that lacks information about the history of witchcraft. The GM decides whether or not a library does not cover a specific topic. If it does not cover the topic, you may not use it to take 20 on a knowledge check, but may still use it to retry a check."

Libraries are fairly common in my homebrew campaign setting, so it makes sense for a character who needs to know something to visit one, and I'd like it clear what the effect of that is. I know the CRB has rules for libraries, but I prefer the take 20 and retry house rule.


Fromper wrote:
On the other hand, having a 5% chance of hitting the moon with a bow and arrow is entirely realistic.

The moon is outside a bow's maximum range increment.


Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

Thanks. Now that that's clear, is this house rule reasonable?

"If you fail a knowledge check, you may retry it by making use of a library. There are many different types of library, such as public school and university libraries, public libraries, privately owned libraries, and so on. If you have access to a library you may take 20 on your knowledge check by spending 1d4 hours reading. A library may not cover the topic you are looking for. For example, a medical university may have a library that lacks information about the history of witchcraft. The GM decides whether or not a library does not cover a specific topic. If it does not cover the topic, you may not use it to take 20 on a knowledge check, but may still use it to retry a check."

Libraries are fairly common in my homebrew campaign setting, so it makes sense for a character who needs to know something to visit one, and I'd like it clear what the effect of that is. I know the CRB has rules for libraries, but I prefer the take 20 house rule.

That's quite a bit more generous than the normal library rules.

"Untrained: You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10. If you have access to an extensive library that covers a specific skill, this limit is removed. The time to make checks using a library, however, increases to 1d4 hours. Particularly complete libraries might even grant a bonus on Knowledge checks in the fields that they cover."

Maybe a happy medium, allow a retry at each library, if the library may contain the info you need. And a highly specialized library granting +2 or +5 to the check.


Sounds eerily similar to:

Knowledge skill wrote:
Untrained: You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10. If you have access to an extensive library that covers a specific skill, this limit is removed. The time to make checks using a library, however, increases to 1d4 hours. Particularly complete libraries might even grant a bonus on Knowledge checks in the fields that they cover.

House rule not necessary! Yay!

Silver Crusade

Grick wrote:
Fromper wrote:
On the other hand, having a 5% chance of hitting the moon with a bow and arrow is entirely realistic.
The moon is outside a bow's maximum range increment.

It's also outside the maximum jumping range with an acrobatics check. I wasn't trying to say that you could hit it. I was merely pointing out the flaw in the analogy.


Buri wrote:

Sounds eerily similar to:

Knowledge skill wrote:
Untrained: You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10. If you have access to an extensive library that covers a specific skill, this limit is removed. The time to make checks using a library, however, increases to 1d4 hours. Particularly complete libraries might even grant a bonus on Knowledge checks in the fields that they cover.
House rule not necessary! Yay!

Except my house rule allows you to take 20 instead of providing a bonus, and allows retries on failed checks (Which makes sense. If you don't know something you needed to know, you'd look for a book with it.).


"On the other hand, having a 5% chance of hitting the moon with a bow and arrow is entirely realistic"

lol brilliant!


Fromper wrote:
I was merely pointing out the flaw in the analogy.

Perhaps a better analogy would be "a 5% chance to hear a bow being drawn on the moon." (Which we all know doesn't happen, they use Harpoons up there.)

Grand Lodge

To the moon!

The Exchange

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
Buri wrote:

Sounds eerily similar to:

Knowledge skill wrote:
Untrained: You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10. If you have access to an extensive library that covers a specific skill, this limit is removed. The time to make checks using a library, however, increases to 1d4 hours. Particularly complete libraries might even grant a bonus on Knowledge checks in the fields that they cover.
House rule not necessary! Yay!
Except my house rule allows you to take 20 instead of providing a bonus, and allows retries on failed checks (Which makes sense. If you don't know something you needed to know, you'd look for a book with it.).

Wouldn't a Take 20 take 20d4 hours? yeah, that works for me I would think. average of 50 hours to take 20 on a library search. not sure about the rest.

I would think that it would be more fun (and I'm always about fun) to have the rule give a chance of finding a book on the subject be part of a Perception roll, much as Tracking might be. The Profession Librarian then becomes something like a Ranger - and if you have a lot of Libraries in your home game your players might like to work at one (by a "Book Ranger".

Librarians could be consulted to offer a +2 (aid) on the search - with the number of persons aiding limited by the DM (big Lib. = lots of researchers) and thus having a "research assistant" becomes a good thing.


Once a particular character's bonus on a skill reaches the DC-1, it's pointless having hir roll for it unless doing significantly better helps in some way.

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