So I've looked through the forum and the FAQ, and I seem to be finding differing advice. I'm hoping someone can set me straight on what is or isn't the official rules here.
So it says in the FAQ a Cleric can use a weapon and shield and just switch the weapon to his shield hand (a free action) to cast his spells. So my Eldritch Knight, when he scores a critical hit, can switch his weapon to his shield hand to cast the crit-enabled spell?
And if that's true, then why can't he use a two-handed sword and simply let go with one hand (I'd assume another free action) to cast his spell? I thought it said he couldn't when I looked it up earlier, but that doesn't make sense and I'm hoping someone can help me know if that's right or not. I think that ruling had to do with attacking with a gauntlet and a polearm at the same time and a Magus' combat casting, but would it apply to an Eldritch Knight who fights with a standard action, then casts with a swift action?
Anyone?
That doesn't make sense to me. The cleric isn't casting and attacking in the same round, so it doesn't matter if he switches his weapon to his off hand to cast, but the magus or eldritch knight is casting and attacking; I think they'd need to have the off hand free to do that, meaning no shield larger than a buckler.
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The difference is that in one situation you use a standard action to do the switch and cast the spell, in the other (the eldritch knight Spell Critical) you get a swift action to cast a spell in the moment in which you confirm the critical.
You can do that only at that time and not after performing other things.
You don't have the time to switch the weapon between your hands, let it go of the weapon handle or any other action, even a free one.
You either immediately cast the spell or you lose the opportunity.
So, as a GM, I would not allow you to cast the spell if you are using a 2 handed weapon or a shield and a weapon (a buckler is an exception as it leave your hand free).
The two handed weapon casting makes more sense than the shield casting. Personally I like power gaming so I would allow the two handed weapon casting and simply house rule a 20% spell failure for casting with a sheild hand. But ultimately whenever this has come up we've let the DM make his own decision and abided by it.
Is there anything official though? Or is it just a DM decision? I agree the switching hands feels lame, but from what I saw that was closer to being allowed than simply taking one hand off your sword to cast, and that doesn't feel right.
Of course, Eldritch Knight is an odd niche class to begin with. It's so hard to make them valid next to straight wizards and maguses, so I will admit I'm looking for whatever bones I can get.
Is there anything official though? Or is it just a DM decision?
The rules don't specify whether you can take a free action between confirming the critical and casting the spell. Thus it is up to your DM.
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Thinking about it, the rules say something about that, Grick:
Spell Critical (Su): At 10th level, whenever an eldritch knight successfully confirms a critical hit, he can cast a spell as a swift action.Swift Actions
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.
From the above statement I infer that:
1) Spell critical is a swift action;2) you can't take a free action and a swift action at the same time;
from that it follow that:
3) if you take the free action to free a hand to cast you have already lost the possibility to cast the spell.
Just to add problems, spell critical has an added problem: "The caster must still meet all of the spell's components and must roll for arcane spell failure if necessary."
Retrieving them from a spell pouch is a free action, but then we are adding another free action to our mix of actions .....
Sometime you get weird results with the spell mechanics, but at the same time hand waving this kind of problems away for free is one of the reasons why people feel that spellcasters are overpowered.
...From the above statement I infer that:
1) Spell critical is a swift action;
2) you can't take a free action and a swift action at the same time;...
your number 2 has no foundation in the quote above, therefore your statement number 3 has no basis. In fact, after thinking about it
...You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions...
This seems to contradict what you said
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...From the above statement I infer that:
1) Spell critical is a swift action;
2) you can't take a free action and a swift action at the same time;...your number 2 has no foundation in the quote above, therefore your statement number 3 has no basis. In fact, after thinking about it
...You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions...This seems to contradict what you said
So you are arguing that it is possible to rake multiple free actions at the same time (a swift action is a more restrictive form of a free action)?
I would make people taking them in sequence. Simultaneity don't exist.And please, the second piece you quoted is a part of the rules, not so statement of mine, so change your citation.
Even as it was was in my post, its value is as rule citation (edited =PRD in the original post).
...From the above statement I infer that:
1) Spell critical is a swift action;
2) you can't take a free action and a swift action at the same time;...your number 2 has no foundation in the quote above, therefore your statement number 3 has no basis. In fact, after thinking about it
...You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions...This seems to contradict what you said
So you are arguing that it is possible to rake multiple free actions at the same time (a swift action is a more restrictive form of a free action)?
I would make people taking them in sequence. Simultaneity don't exist.And please, the second piece you quoted is a part of the rules, not so statement of mine, so change your citation.
Even as it was was in my post, its value is as rule citation (edited =PRD in the original post).
He's quoting the wrong section to prove his point, but the point is still valid. You can take only one swift action per round (unless you sacrifice a move or standard action for it) but you can do as many free actions as you want. That's why I'm asking this, as switching hands, drawing from spell pouches, and other free actions don't count at all towards your total of one swift, one move and one standard action per round.
For balance's sake I'm inclined to believe you can't take the free actions between the attack and swift crit-spell (it's not in the wording at all so techincally RAW seems to say you can, but it makes sense if you couldn't and I might as well build for it.) It's not a big deal, it just means the Eldritch Knight needs a lot more planning and mathematics to figure out how exactly you're going to overcome things like max actions per round, arcane spell failure, armor and stuff like that.
I like the Eldritch Knight class, but it's so easy to get wrong and end up with a brokenly bad build if you're not careful. It takes a lot of pre-planning with the still spell feat, arcane armor feats, deciding when you'll be hitting level 10 Eldritch Knight, and whether or not you want to build towards using the spell-crit feature before level 20.
You can take only one swift action per round (unless you sacrifice a move or standard action for it)
I don't think it says anywhere you can 'trade down' a standard or move to a swift.
you can do as many free actions as you want.
"You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM."
So you are arguing that it is possible to rake multiple free actions at the same time (a swift action is a more restrictive form of a free action)?
I would make people taking them in sequence. Simultaneity don't exist.
I don't know who is right or who is wrong, I'm just saying you have no supporting documentation for your comments.
I could really point out casting fireballs isn't really, neither are dragons. The rules are for balance. So however the developers wanted them its for balance reasons. Not for realistic reasons.
PS. I don't know how it works, this was about supporting your conclusions.
You can take only one swift action per round (unless you sacrifice a move or standard action for it)I don't think it says anywhere you can 'trade down' a standard or move to a swift.
I'm pretty sure you can, you just only trade down (standard for move, not move for standard. Move or standard for swift but not the other way.)
You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM."
Aaand I guess that's the end-all of it. It really just depends on if the DM is going to let you take that many free actions in your round.
You know, there's a 3rd-party feat that lets you pick up, sheath, and do other such tradings as a free action. Maybe as a DM I'd make someone take that feat before they could hit and cast like we're discussing? Eh, I guess that's all up to the DM, according to the rules.
I'm pretty sure you can, you just only trade down (standard for move, not move for standard. Move or standard for swift but not the other way.)
"You can perform only a single swift action per turn."
Action Types: "You can always take a move action in place of a standard action."
It doesn't say that for any other kind of action.