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I'm reluctant to use the term tank, but in effect that's what I'd like to play for my next pathfinder character. I'm thinking the armor master fighter archetype might be a good way to go. It might not be the best type of fighter, but it sounds interesting, and the group I play with could use someone capable of standing up and taking a lot of punishment, either through HP or AC. Anyone have any advice on feats, or even a different class?
Paladins make excellent tanks.
Levels 1-4 are pure gold.
Feats
Bolstered Resilience
You can dramatically increase your damage reduction in exchange for its temporary loss.
Prerequisite: Damage reduction.
Benefit: As an immediate action, you can double your DR against a single attack, to a maximum of DR 20. The type of the DR remains unchanged. If the attack you are guarding against is not successful, the increased damage reduction persists until you are hit with an attack or until the start of your next turn, whichever happens first. At the start of your next turn, you become fatigued. You cannot use this feat while you are fatigued.
Stalwart
You adopt a defensive stance that allows you to absorb and redirect hits.
Prerequisite: Diehard, Endurance, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: While using the total defense action, fighting defensively action, or Combat Expertise, you can forgo the dodge bonus to AC you would normally gain to instead gain an equivalent amount of DR, to a maximum of DR 5/—, until the start of your next turn. This damage reduction stacks with DR you gain from class features, such as the barbarian's, but not with DR from any other source. If you are denied your Dexterity bonus to AC, you are also denied this DR.
Improved Stalwart
You can roll with the punches while simultaneously striking back at your attackers.
Prerequisite: Diehard, Endurance, Stalwart, base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: Double the DR you gain from Stalwart, to a maximum of DR 10/—.
Go Human for the alternate Racial Trait..
Heart of the Fields: Humans born in rural areas are used to hard labor. They gain a bonus equal to half their character level to any one Craft or Profession skill, and once per day they may ignore an effect that would cause them to become fatigued or exhausted. This racial trait replaces the skilled racial trait.
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Run it as a dwarf if you don't mind race; all the AC and hp in the world won't help if you lack saves.
Dwarf Armor Master
Str: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 16
Chr: 5
Tower Shield and Heavy Flail. Heirloom weapon the flail for +2 trip, and the dwarves "perception as class skill"
1) Combat Expertise, Agile Manuevers
2) Improved Trip
3) Combat Reflexes
4) Combat Patrol.
5) Improve dwarf save bonus to +4
6) Improved Trip
So this guy is going to sit on the line with his tower shield and full plate and trip out anyone trying to get by. Eventually he'll go on combat patrol and keep a wide range of people back (to hit isn't as important for the manuever master). His amazing saves will keep the mages from breaking him from the line. Meanwhile by about level 3 he'll be batting a 25 AC without any magic items, and by 5 he should be 27-28 with DR 3/-
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Errr, is heavy flail 2-handed? No, then regular flail it (or really any trip weapon, for the option of dropping it if you fail). Good setup on the build; those stats will make you very survivable, especially at 4 when you get a 20 con.
Sounds like fun; getting on the front line is always good. And yes, it makes the whole dwarven bonus +4 instead of +2; so applies to poisons / diseases as well.
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Pallies are the best tanks because of lay on hands, and because smite gives AC bonus. Consider this setup:
Human Pally
Str: 17 (18 @ 4)
Int: 8
Wis: 13
Dex: 13
Con: 12
Chr: 20
Wielding a mancatcher (+2 trip)
Feats) Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
3) Combat Reflexes
At level 4, he has 7 lay-on-hands, which translates to 4 smites (+5 to hit, damage, and AC vs any threatening evil), and 3 times if he is hit he can swift action gain 2d6 hp (3d6 at 5).
These free hp (as it does not take an action) translate into more tank potential, and with a smite his 20 AC (Full plate becomes a 25). Further, thanks to his reach weapon anyone attempting to get to him will take an AOO (a trip attempt, with +4 BAB +2 heirloom +4 Str +2 feat = +12 CMB).
Also, Str-building (not caring as much about AC, as you have so many hp options) let's you do more damage when you want to. Finally, that 20 Chr translates to +5 on all saves, so good luck with spells on him.
This total package of great saves and no-action healing is what makes them the best tanks in the game.
They are very, very powerful tanks
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I'm reluctant to use the term tank, but in effect that's what I'd like to play for my next pathfinder character. I'm thinking the armor master fighter archetype might be a good way to go. It might not be the best type of fighter, but it sounds interesting, and the group I play with could use someone capable of standing up and taking a lot of punishment, either through HP or AC. Anyone have any advice on feats, or even a different class?
It's okay to use the term tank. A tank is a fearsome opponent on the battlefield.
It's NOT okay to use the term meat shield. A meat shield imply something living is useless except as a living shield.
I prefer my tank builds to dish out lots of damage while having an average defense. The reason is that 3.5 and PF are designed so that dishing out lots of damage is usually the most effective way to defeating an opponent. Defense just doesn't quite keep up with offense. Worse, if your offense is really weak, the opponent will lose interest in you and "lose aggro" to borrow the MMO term. An intelligent opponent should be focusing on the most dangerous opponent, so if you are not dangerous, the opponent can bypass you. Even if you go with a really defensive build, make sure you can dish out damage or otherwise warrant attention. Damage is the easiest and cheapest way to achieve these, from a mainly a feat standpoint.
Fighter tanks aren't anything to scoff at though. Their check penalties go down, which is really something (I've seen a paladin really struggle to climb things a few times). Not to mention, they have the feats to up their AC earlier on, and still have enough slots to take weapon focus/spec to keep hitting and doing damage to keep the aforementioned "aggro". That plus Intimidate is nice, but Paladins can do that too.
Or you could go the shield/flail Combat Expertise/Improved Trip route and have a shielded fighter who can trip like a boss. That was my second choice when I made my fighter, but I didn't want to up my INT to 13.
And if you want to do Shield Bashing, the fighter is definitely the way to go.
It's the feats man. So many feats...
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Pallies are the best tanks because of lay on hands, and because smite gives AC bonus. Consider this setup:
Human Pally
Str: 17 (18 @ 4)
Int: 8
Wis: 13
Dex: 13
Con: 12
Chr: 20Wielding a mancatcher (+2 trip)
Feats) Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
3) Combat ReflexesAt level 4, he has 7 lay-on-hands, which translates to 4 smites (+5 to hit, damage, and AC vs any threatening evil), and 3 times if he is hit he can swift action gain 2d6 hp (3d6 at 5).
These free hp (as it does not take an action) translate into more tank potential, and with a smite his 20 AC (Full plate becomes a 25). Further, thanks to his reach weapon anyone attempting to get to him will take an AOO (a trip attempt, with +4 BAB +2 heirloom +4 Str +2 feat = +12 CMB).
Also, Str-building (not caring as much about AC, as you have so many hp options) let's you do more damage when you want to. Finally, that 20 Chr translates to +5 on all saves, so good luck with spells on him.
This total package of great saves and no-action healing is what makes them the best tanks in the game.
They are very, very powerful tanks
Interesting build, though there are a few errors :
- Improved Trip requires INT 13, so you will need to reduce some other ability, either CON and/or WIS but definitely not DEX as you base Reflex save is lower than the other 2
- At level 4, Smite will grant +5 (or likelier +6 because you will have bought a headband of Charisma +2 asap) to attack and AC and +4 on damage against the target of the Smite only, not against "any threatening evil"
- The 8 Lay on hands at level 4 (7+1 because of the headband) translate to 4 additional smites only if you have taken the Oathbound Archetype with the Oath of Vengeance
- The revised Heirloom weapon trait does not work with the Mancatcher as it is an Exotic weapon. Choose a simple or martial Reach weapon instead
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Well, I had 7 lay on hands but 4 actually used as 2 extra smites. That is 4 total smites, which is usually enough where you can use 1 per encounter on the meanest looking evil without sweating it. At 5 you can conceivably smite 6 times, but realistically will probably smite 4 and gain 3d6 hp swift action. This does assume Vengence pally; by far my favorite pally archetype (the Holy tactician being a close 2nd).
Yeah, got int and Wis backwards on that build.
Mancatcher = horsechopper, the actual reach trip weapon (d10 martial melee weapon with trip). I wrote that in a hurry :).
And yeah, target of smite only is the clarify. Against bunches of looks you just attack them down and swift-action heal; you're sti very effective. But against BBEGs you are a devastating monster.
