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Howdy, the games I'm playing in pretty much screech to a halt as soon as grapple comes up. I've been workin on this here grapple flow chart based on some of the other charts I've seen.
I would greatly appreciate some help error checking this chart. Please do post if you find any and I will make the necessary corrections.
The d20pfsrd charts are / were out of date, so if you were basing it off of those from...the past 6 months or so...they don't apply.
And is it so much to ask for a character who specializes in grappling to have the rules memorized? Especially after a year and a half of playing the character? :(
I've (hopefully) corrected any out-of-date rules from the old charts.
And yeah I suppose someone playing a character that is made to grapple should know the rules fairly well. But what about the random wizard who wants to know what he can do when a bugbear hugs him.
I was just ranting about personal experiences, nothing really related to this.
It looks good, real good.
However, on page 199 under “performing a combat maneuver” it states the if the AOO hits, the attacker takes the damage taken as a penalty to his CMB roll. That should be added to the attack of opportunity box.
Also, while not strictly required, it would be nice if some mention of grab/grapple based special abilities of monsters was mentioned:
Constrict – constrict damage is added to grapple damage
Blood drain – drains blood at the end of turn if grappling
Grab – controlling creature may take -20 on CMB checks to not gain the grappled condition (handy with multiple attacks)
Rake – only possible if attacker starts the turn grappling (pounce is an exception)
Swallow whole – only possible if attacker starts turn grappling, make a new check as if trying to pin
All of these come from the Universal Monster Rules in the Bestiary 2.
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Thanks! I really do appreciate the help. I've added the attack of opportunity rule and adjusted the layout to make it all fit.
I really like the idea of adding monster grapple abilities and I did try to fit them in. Sadly there were just too many for the amount of space that was left. It does make me think of making up a sheet just for those though, that I may or may not actually get to.
Again, if you find any errors or have a suggestion please post.
I don't know if it is common enough to be worth putting in the chart but your round 3 chart doesn't account for the greater grapple feat.
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I created some grapple flowcharts a few weeks ago and you can find the forum thread here : Grapple Flowcharts
Here are the files:
----------PF Grapple Flowcharts v0.97-------PDF Version PF Grapple Flowcharts
----------------------------------------------------
Rehosted as images:
How does one dot a thread?
How does one dot a thread?
You just did!
OH MY GOD SO DID I!
tom, John Reyst also showed this flowchart to the d20pfsrd community, and they had a few things to mention:
Round 2:Defender may...
...attempt to cast a spell. Defender
makes a concentration check (DC 10 +
initial attackers CMB + spell levelIt's not only missing a closing parenthesis, but is also inaccurate, as you may only casts spells without somatic components during a grapple.
Round 3: Attacker may...
...Tie the Defender up
Attacker makes a CMB check -10 vs.
the Defender’s CMD.
The tie-up mechanics don't seem laid out well to me... There doesn't need to be a box for "Is the Attacker grappling the Defender?" because that is already known to be true from earlier in the flowchart. Instead, the arrow should go straight to "Attacker makes a CMB check -10 vs. the Defender’s CMD."Other than that, it all seems mechanically correct to me. In my game, I would rule that the defender can't take control of the grapple on an Escape Artist check, but that doesn't appear to be RAW.
It would be nice to explicitly state which actions are specifically standard actions (CMB checks to start/maintain/escape/control grapple) and which are not necessarily (an action requiring only one hand could be immediate, free, swift, move, standard, full-round).
The errata we have on the combat page says that, for the defender "any action that only takes one hand to perform" should be "any action that *does not take two hands* to perform," and "make an attack with a light or one-handed weapon" should be "make an attack *or full attack* with a light or one-handed weapon." Those changes should be incorporated to the flowchart.
I wonder what the rules for multi-armed creatures are, regarding grapples... How many arms is a marilith allowed to use to perform an action while it is the defender in a grapple?
"Attacker may release grapple at any time."
-No, it's a free action. During controller's turn only."Attackers turn complete. Attacker gains a +5 bonus to CMB checks to grapple."
-ONLY to maintain grapples."Defender is now controlling grappler and gets +5 to successive grapple checks."
-Ditto"Spell Fails."
-And spell is lost (probably obvious)"Is the Attacker grappling the Defender?"
-Where is this going? Flowchart confusion
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Dang Eridan, those charts are really thorough! I'm a little unsure if I want to incorporate the monster rules and such into my chart. I intended to have it be only two pages, and I also don't want to have to start over, which I would need to do. Yours is really nice and I think I'll print out a copy of it to have around for situations where mine is lacking.
I can't find any hard rules on grappling with multiple limbs. Anybody know where they might be?
Thanks again for the help. Here is the most recent version including the corrections mentioned.
Dotted for certain!
Dang Eridan, those charts are really thorough! I'm a little unsure if I want to incorporate the monster rules and such into my chart. I intended to have it be only two pages, and I also don't want to have to start over, which I would need to do. Yours is really nice and I think I'll print out a copy of it to have around for situations where mine is lacking.
I can't find any hard rules on grappling with multiple limbs. Anybody know where they might be?
Thanks again for the help. Here is the most recent version including the corrections mentioned.
Tom, thank you for putting this together. I'm with you on the "grinding to a halt."
Thefting these, by the way. :)
