Congratulations on making the right choice and on making that choice work.
Damn,I was about to suggest a peasant cannon...
I'm curious if anyone else in the party dealt with the demon and if so how would your paladin feel about that?
No. Nobody dealt with the demon. It seemed mostly interested in me, and after I said no it laughed at us and left.
I refused the deal, and I did not lose my powers. We even managed to capture the BBEG. Turns out, the reason the BBEG had so much power earlier was because he made a deal with the same demon. The demon pulled the power after getting what he wanted, though, and by the time we fought our last stand he wasn't quite so epic. He still outclassed us, but it wasn't so bad that we weren't able to win, especially with some amazing badassery from the druid, who charged through a g$*##~n wall of fire to grapple him so that he couldn't cast any more spells.Does your GM read from the forums? :)
Either he did a 180 or he had an interesting story in the making (in which case sounds like you will have fun).
I have no idea whether he did a 180 or intended this all along. All I know it is that it was fun. Nobody ended the battle with more than a quarter HP left, and a couple of us got messed up by the critical hit deck that was used, but it was great.
Yea, kudos to the druid. That was epic. He lost half his HP and most of his hair and clothing, but I can only imagine what was going through the BBEGs head when an angry half-orc with his hair and clothes on fire came bursting out of the wall and tackled him.
Then again, I think the BBEG might be able to cast 9th level spells. Is that enough power to take out a mob of over a thousand people?
I slew nearly 700 at level 10. In just over five minutes. And they were each CR 4 or greater.
Honestly if it wasn't for the niece killing part, I would say: Take the deal, fall from grace, defeat the BBEG, get an Atonement.
Yes it sucks, but PF has changed the Paladin a bit from 3.5 where some GMs apperently count "Oh you sat with random stranger at a table to eat dinner. He was evil. And you associated with him. YOU FALL" already.
You are allowed to ally with evil people if it's to defeat an even greater evil, and it doesn't make you fall. Sure a demon might be somewhat of a stretch there, but if its the only way a Paladin might make that deal and accept the concequences for himself to save the world.
But as I said, the niece-killing thing pretty much is the dealbreaker here. You can try to justify it along the same lines "only way to stop a world-ending evil and I deal with the fallout later" if it's that bad. You could plan to ressurrect the niece eventually for example.
It all kind of depends on how much a threat the BBEG is. Would a Paladin really walk away from the only way to stop the end of the world to safe a single life, knowing it means the deaths of millions (including the one he just safed)?
Also where the hell is the Paladin's god, who apperently is watching enough to smite the paladin and strip him of his powers immediately, but too busy to help defeat that BBEG?
But I don't know, as others have said it sounds like the GM is just out to get you to fall no matter what. And if you manage to manouver throuhg this somehow (i don't really see how), he'll just drop the next bomb on you the session afterwards.
I refused the deal, and I did not lose my powers. We even managed to capture the BBEG. Turns out, the reason the BBEG had so much power earlier was because he made a deal with the same demon. The demon pulled the power after getting what he wanted, though, and by the time we fought our last stand he wasn't quite so epic. He still outclassed us, but it wasn't so bad that we weren't able to win, especially with some amazing badassery from the druid, who charged through a g$*##~n wall of fire to grapple him so that he couldn't cast any more spells.Does your GM read from the forums? :)
Either he did a 180 or he had an interesting story in the making (in which case sounds like you will have fun).
I have no idea whether he did a 180 or intended this all along. All I know it is that it was fun. Nobody ended the battle with more than a quarter HP left, and a couple of us got messed up by the critical hit deck that was used, but it was great.
Yea, kudos to the druid. That was epic. He lost half his HP and most of his hair and clothing, but I can only imagine what was going through the BBEGs head when an angry half-orc with his hair and clothes on fire came bursting out of the wall and tackled him.
This actually sounds like a great game. A lot of the earlier posts seemed to tear into your DM for putting you in this situation. I personally think that situations like this are what make for excellent RP opportunities; your character has to make some serious moral choices that impact not only the campaign world but your character's well-being.
The fact that it played out the way it did seems to indicate to me that your DM has a strong grasp of narrative direction and chose you, not just because you are playing the paladin, but probably because he realized that you could riff off of the dilemma presented.
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Yeah, it looks like the plot was, "Demon gives power to guy, demon offers Paladin to take power away--because he can, and hey, free paladin. Paladin doesn't take the bait, Demon sad that his fun got ruined, and left. Guy takes the fall."
That's a good plot, and a good story. Keep it up in this group. By the way, who of your earlier group dropped, and who stayed? And where did you find the GM?
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Honestly if it wasn't for the niece killing part, I would say: Take the deal, fall from grace, defeat the BBEG, get an Atonement.
Yes it sucks, but PF has changed the Paladin a bit from 3.5 where some GMs apperently count "Oh you sat with random stranger at a table to eat dinner. He was evil. And you associated with him. YOU FALL" already.
You are allowed to ally with evil people if it's to defeat an even greater evil, and it doesn't make you fall. Sure a demon might be somewhat of a stretch there, but if its the only way a Paladin might make that deal and accept the concequences for himself to save the world.But as I said, the niece-killing thing pretty much is the dealbreaker here. You can try to justify it along the same lines "only way to stop a world-ending evil and I deal with the fallout later" if it's that bad. You could plan to ressurrect the niece eventually for example.
It all kind of depends on how much a threat the BBEG is. Would a Paladin really walk away from the only way to stop the end of the world to safe a single life, knowing it means the deaths of millions (including the one he just safed)?
Also where the hell is the Paladin's god, who apperently is watching enough to smite the paladin and strip him of his powers immediately, but too busy to help defeat that BBEG?
But I don't know, as others have said it sounds like the GM is just out to get you to fall no matter what. And if you manage to manouver throuhg this somehow (i don't really see how), he'll just drop the next bomb on you the session afterwards.
Actually it sounds like the GM deliberately set up a situation that appeared to be hopeless in order to trick the Paladin into falling from grace. This was a test of faith, one which Kelsey passed.
Also the "doing a deal with a Demon" thing is the crux of the issue. A Paladin doesn't commit to the lesser evil becuase it's convenient, they find another way or die trying. That what what Kelsey was prepared to do so kudos to you.
By the way, who of your earlier group dropped, and who stayed? And where did you find the GM?
My questions as well.
That's a good plot, and a good story. Keep it up in this group. By the way, who of your earlier group dropped, and who stayed? And where did you find the GM?
We lost the monk/sorcerer/arcane archer and the monk/druid, and I found the new GM after asking the owner of the gaming store I frequent if he knew anybody who could help the group out.
We lost the monk/sorcerer/arcane archer and the monk/druid, and I found the new GM after asking the owner of the gaming store I frequent if he knew anybody who could help the group out.That's a good plot, and a good story. Keep it up in this group. By the way, who of your earlier group dropped, and who stayed? And where did you find the GM?
Iirc those were the worst of the lot right?
Iirc those were the worst of the lot right?We lost the monk/sorcerer/arcane archer and the monk/druid, and I found the new GM after asking the owner of the gaming store I frequent if he knew anybody who could help the group out.That's a good plot, and a good story. Keep it up in this group. By the way, who of your earlier group dropped, and who stayed? And where did you find the GM?
Yes. We lost them after the new GM told them to leave when they started yelling.
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Yes. We lost them after the new GM told them to leave when they started yelling.Iirc those were the worst of the lot right?We lost the monk/sorcerer/arcane archer and the monk/druid, and I found the new GM after asking the owner of the gaming store I frequent if he knew anybody who could help the group out.That's a good plot, and a good story. Keep it up in this group. By the way, who of your earlier group dropped, and who stayed? And where did you find the GM?
Take notes. That's the way to do it. Remember the GM's example for the next time you run a game.
Yes. We lost them after the new GM told them to leave when they started yelling.I would like to kiss your DM in a totally platonic way.
+1.
How old were those two misfits who seem to think yelling will get you what you want?