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i posted this a while back. i have made so edits in pictures and such and have fixed some of the problems, such as typos and the like.
it comes with extra feats specific to the class, a section devoted to modifications you can buy and apply to the character, and favored class bonuses for each of the races in the core rule book. the blueprints (spells) for the class also include spells from the APG and Ultimate Magic (there was nothing in UC that i thought would fit the class, but if you disagree please let me know and ill add it in).
any info on this class would be great. i have a friend playing it in our game right now and it seems to be very balanced. any feedback you have is appreciated. enjoy.
Will read later, and add to my artificer list.
I like it, but I must admit that the Point Cost/Maintain Cost and Power Armor Creation Points confused me when I was reading through the Modifications list.
I think I understand how it all works now, but still scratching my head some.
Overall, good job. Think this would be a blast to play, especially in an Iron Kingdoms setting.
I like it, but I must admit that the Point Cost/Maintain Cost and Power Armor Creation Points confused me when I was reading through the Modifications list.
I think I understand how it all works now, but still scratching my head some.
Overall, good job. Think this would be a blast to play, especially in an Iron Kingdoms setting.
point cost refers to how many points it costs to activate. maintain cost refers to how many points it costs to maintain. for example, flight costs 2 point to activate, after 10 rounds of flying, you can recast it but for 1 point rather than 2.
power armor creation points only refers to what you buy at character creation. hope that clears things up a bit. if not ask me some more specific questions and ill be happy to explain.
Can I see the list, Cheapy?
I have to say I really, really like the flavor of the Armored Engineer, and I very much like the modifications and favored class bonuses. Though I have yet to use it, it looks balanced. I think that, for a steampunk campaign, it is something that would do well to be available.
Search for "list of artificers" or something. It's probably still on the first page of this forum.
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Ok, I've read it, and I find it really good. There are a lot of options, they are flavorful and they seem balanced.
Only "issues" I've seen :
- Agility/Str/Con modes: they should provide "Enhancement" bonuses to stats. This way, you also don't have to precise that the bonus don't stack with the stat-increasing spells.
- Dwarfish Armor/Gnomish Armor: these seem a bit sub-par. I could have seen the Dwarfish Armor provide +1 HP/level and +1 Fortitude ; and the Gnomish Armor provide a +2 bonus to damage for each attack dealing elemental damage (ray/flamethrower/shocking grasp, etc.).
- Flamethrower: only fire damage ? What about tesla coils, acid mists and liquid nitrogen ?
- Some modifications, while being "(Su)", doesn't indicate which kind of action they require, like Targeting System (which also works exactly like one of the magus arcanas, if you need a balancing model).
- Ameliorations you can buy with money should take a slot. Like "this is treated as holding a weapon in your hand". Some of them ("Bolas Flinger" and "Net Thrower", for example) aren't clear whether they are their own actions, or may be used as part of a full-attack action.
EDIT : Also, it would be great to have some ameliorations improving the rays, as Tanglefoot Bomb/Confusion Bomb/Force Bomb/Dispelling Bomb do for the alchemist (the first one being a favorite of mine). ;)
Ok, I've read it, and I find it really good. There are a lot of options, they are flavorful and they seem balanced.
Only "issues" I've seen :
- Agility/Str/Con modes: they should provide "Enhancement" bonuses to stats. This way, you also don't have to precise that the bonus don't stack with the stat-increasing spells.
- Dwarfish Armor/Gnomish Armor: these seem a bit sub-par. I could have seen the Dwarfish Armor provide +1 HP/level and +1 Fortitude ; and the Gnomish Armor provide a +2 bonus to damage for each attack dealing elemental damage (ray/flamethrower/shocking grasp, etc.).
- Flamethrower: only fire damage ? What about tesla coils, acid mists and liquid nitrogen ?
- Some modifications, while being "(Su)", doesn't indicate which kind of action they require, like Targeting System (which also works exactly like one of the magus arcanas, if you need a balancing model).
- Ameliorations you can buy with money should take a slot. Like "this is treated as holding a weapon in your hand". Some of them ("Bolas Flinger" and "Net Thrower", for example) aren't clear whether they are their own actions, or may be used as part of a full-attack action.
EDIT : Also, it would be great to have some ameliorations improving the rays, as Tanglefoot Bomb/Confusion Bomb/Force Bomb/Dispelling Bomb do for the alchemist (the first one being a favorite of mine). ;)
at the moment i dont have the time to go back and add things but i can clarify some things for you.
for the modes, they specifically say that they dont stack with the spells that do the same thing, and since the advanced versions are upgrades, they wouldnt be able to stack either. i know, it should say that but like i said i dont have the time to go back and fix things at the moment due to im bout to leave the house.
flamethrower is flame due to it being simple. you got the choice to pick elemental damage for your elemental ray. i can go back and change this but i dont really know what im going to call it, so for now just houserule it that you can create it to be whatever you so desire.
for those racial armors you mentioned, gnomish armor basically gives you weapon specialization for free (which you couldnt get anyways) for your elemental ray, and dwarfish gives you great fortitude for free (yet they both stack if you took those feats later on). i didnt think that was too bad of an option. +1 hp per level AND +1 to fort seems too much in comparison to what the other racial armors provide, and if i gave the +2 to all elemental damage, itd be like handing out multiple weapon specializations for free. i was trying to stay within the balance of the game, but like i said, do what works best for you. if you like it your way, use that instead. i promise, you wont hurt my feelings ;)
any modification that doesnt state what action it takes is considered a free action (although they cant be used multiple times in the same round).
as for the purchased mods, they dont take up a slot due to that they arent supposed to. thats why they cost extra money. you use them as if youd use them for any other weapon of its type, for example, you attack with a net as a standard, you do the same for the thrower. you can use it as part of a full round attack but you must designate one of your attack rolls to it.
as for your ideas, if you post them and they are balanced i will not only add them to the class, but ill make sure that your name is put in the document for your contribution.
any other questions, lay em on me.
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Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think you should have to pick fire as your ray damage at first level with some Modifications to change it/add effects to the ray, and Flamethrower should be an effect dealing your Ray's damage in a line or cone, a bit like bombs and the discovery to use one of them as a standard action in a cone. Alchemist discoveries are a perfect balancing tool for this class.
I'll work on a conversion later, including an archetype to give up the ray/nerf it down and focus on being the g&++~$n Iron Man, kinda like what the vivisectionist is to the alchemist.
Something I forgot, is that the good save for the class should maybe better be Will only, instead of Fort + Ref, as it is more the trope of a geek hiding in an awesome exosqueleton than a hardened warrior (not intended as a cliché'd-ation of the class).
SHouldnt the Advanced modification: Damage reduction read "For every 3 levels above level ten" for it's advancement? As is, you take it immediately if youre ever going to, or youre just a sucker.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think you should have to pick fire as your ray damage at first level with some Modifications to change it/add effects to the ray, and Flamethrower should be an effect dealing your Ray's damage in a line or cone, a bit like bombs and the discovery to use one of them as a standard action in a cone. Alchemist discoveries are a perfect balancing tool for this class.
I'll work on a conversion later, including an archetype to give up the ray/nerf it down and focus on being the g&&~*%n Iron Man, kinda like what the vivisectionist is to the alchemist.
Something I forgot, is that the good save for the class should maybe better be Will only, instead of Fort + Ref, as it is more the trope of a geek hiding in an awesome exosqueleton than a hardened warrior (not intended as a cliché'd-ation of the class).
i do think ref should be switched with will for what is its good save. idk why i put reflex down, i will change that when i get home and repost.
as for the type of damage, the original concept of the class was supposed to be steam powered but some people complained that they would like to create the armor using different power sources, and when you have an inate ability like elemental ray, it doesnt make sense that you are shooting fire out of your palms when your powered by the essense of an ice elemental. that why i left it vague, so that even in a non steam punk setting, like futuristic, this class can be used.
but this class was inspired partly due to seeing a steampunk iron man toy ;)
but yes if you do do an archetype please post it. id love to see what you get. ill even put it in with the core class so you get an archetype with it, if you so desire, and like i said before i will include your name in the document.
SHouldnt the Advanced modification: Damage reduction read "For every 3 levels above level ten" for it's advancement? As is, you take it immediately if youre ever going to, or youre just a sucker.
yes it should read this way and that will be rectified when i get home tonight. thanks for pointing that out.
and i will make it state that it stacks with DR received by special materials.
anything else you all got for me? anything youd like me to add to the document?
i have added in the enhancement word to the modes, both normal and advanced. i changes the reflex saves to poor and the will saves to good. i have also added that non-proficiency penalties with the bolas and/or net thrower still apply. i have also changed the way the damage reduction advanced modification is worded. if there is anything else please dont hesitate to say anything.
If someone could convert the Arcane Mechanik(sp?) from IK, that would be awesome.
Why does the elemental ray have such a low number of uses?
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I didn't see it at first, but Hyper Speed is awesome. You should precise that it is considered as the Abundant Step ability for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites of feats, so an Armored-Engineer may use the Dimensional Agility feat tree. Also, I think you should remove any mention about similar spell for the Dex/Str/Con modes, as it would create confusion over why these spells are clearly enounced while the rules about stacking similar bonuses already exist to counter such problem : "if the sheet says it doesn't stack with X spell, then could it be intended to stack with Belts/Headbands and the "enhancement" bonus is a typo ?".
Emergency Force Field may also be better reproduced by the spell Emergency Force Sphere, according to the fluff.
Also, as a question, may I begin first level with any of the armors proposed in Table 4, including the +9 armor ?
I'll begin writting the Iron Man.
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Why does the elemental ray have such a low number of uses?
Ah, didn't see this. Indeed, full level + Int would be better.
I think you should simply treat rays as bombs, provoking attacks of opportunity with them, and always dealing fire as their base damage - the class in itself would be a perfect Alchemist alternate class, different and cunningly enough written to be a character on it's own, similar enough in it's structure to follow the alchemist's path, including the way rays are treated (and one of the quickest, cleanest possible way to convert special rays is simply to say that rays are treated as bombs for the purposes of Alchemist Discoveries).
This way, Flamethrower becomes this, and you open the path to force rays.
I haven't read anything else, but even just infinite use would be fine.
It's 1d6 per two levels. At level 20, that's 38.5+Intelligence modifier average damage. So...at most 48.5. That's a pittance at that level, especially with only one per turn.
Granted, I haven't read further.
Hm. Pyromaniac doesn't work with elemental ray.
The favored class bonus does. Threw me with predilection :)
So...maybe takes Enhance Elemental Ray 3 times.
14d6+Intelligence mod +2 +10 favored = 71 points of damage, average max. (By which I mean the average damage plus 10 Int mod, which I think is the max for this class. Far too high than usual though)
I can see how that would cause issues due to Quick Rays.
Maybe making Quick Rays cost 2 mod pool points?
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Pyromaniac pretty much works with everything doing fire, including alchemist bombs. If you are going to introduce this class in your campaign, I assume you will also not begrudge to also allow Pyromaniac to work with fire engineer rays on the fly.
By following the alchemist formatting, Enhance elemental Ray wouldn't exist (I believe it existed in the alchemist playtest ?), as throwing debuff + damage rays everywhere with Quick Rays + Rapid Shot + Haste is already pretty damn good in itself.
Why does the elemental ray have such a low number of uses?
i did this to try to keep the class balanced due to that you get other abilities and "spells." but you can always spend 2 points to get another use of the ability if you need it. the class is based primarily on the alchemist and thats why the damage is set as it is. i think an archetype for more use and more power with the ray but less abilities would be cool, but im not gonna write it. this project was so big that im not looking into creating any new classes for a long time.
hope that answers your question. im open to any suggestions you may have.
I didn't see it at first, but Hyper Speed is awesome. You should precise that it is considered as the Abundant Step ability for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites of feats, so an Armored-Engineer may use the Dimensional Agility feat tree. Also, I think you should remove any mention about similar spell for the Dex/Str/Con modes, as it would create confusion over why these spells are clearly enounced while the rules about stacking similar bonuses already exist to counter such problem : "if the sheet says it doesn't stack with X spell, then could it be intended to stack with Belts/Headbands and the "enhancement" bonus is a typo ?".
Emergency Force Field may also be better reproduced by the spell Emergency Force Sphere, according to the fluff.
Also, as a question, may I begin first level with any of the armors proposed in Table 4, including the +9 armor ?
I'll begin writting the Iron Man.
ok i will take out the spell references.
i will add in that thing about abundant step.
as for emergency force sphere, this version is a dumbed down version of that spell, which has been under a lot of attack from people on the forums. i also typed it up as if random joe schmo doesnt have the cheliax book, which most people wont.
and yes, you can start off with the +9, but you youll have like 1, maybe 2 mods depending after you do that. and remember you dont get to upgrade it past 1st level without taking a mod, or using a feat to take the mod. its just cheaper to get it at first level but youll need to know what direction you want to go with your character.
if i were to play one, id go with lower ac and more abilites, but thats just me.
i hope that answers your question.
Why does the elemental ray have such a low number of uses?Ah, didn't see this. Indeed, full level + Int would be better.
I think you should simply treat rays as bombs, provoking attacks of opportunity with them, and always dealing fire as their base damage - the class in itself would be a perfect Alchemist alternate class, different and cunningly enough written to be a character on it's own, similar enough in it's structure to follow the alchemist's path, including the way rays are treated (and one of the quickest, cleanest possible way to convert special rays is simply to say that rays are treated as bombs for the purposes of Alchemist Discoveries).
This way, Flamethrower becomes this, and you open the path to force rays.
this isnt an alternate class for the alchemist nor will it be. so you wont be able to take alchemist discoveries. i made this class to be stand alone. i dont care for the flavor of the alchemist but the build was a good basis for this class.
that being said, i was thinking about adding a force elemental ray, but the problem is youd be doing d6's. now i havent looked at what the alchemist can do with force, if anything, but d6 force is good, good enough that if it was in there, people would b~~*& about how its toooooooooo good. so i left that out.
instead i added Force Push which does something similar, which is what i see ironmans ray to do, only his have a little more umph.
Hm. Pyromaniac doesn't work with elemental ray.
The favored class bonus does. Threw me with predilection :)
So...maybe takes Enhance Elemental Ray 3 times.
14d6+Intelligence mod +2 +10 favored = 71 points of damage, average max. (By which I mean the average damage plus 10 Int mod, which I think is the max for this class. Far too high than usual though)
I can see how that would cause issues due to Quick Rays.
Maybe making Quick Rays cost 2 mod pool points?
you cant take quick ray until 8th level, it says that in its description. and you wouldnt be able to use it anyways before that since you cant get an extra attack (not taking into account TWF and such)
so my question is, if i were to change to a number of times per day equal yo class level + int mod, is that too much due to what else youre capable of doing with the class? i think its too much but thats just me. id like to see your point of view so i can make a better decision.
The alchemist's force bomb does 1d4.
The alchemist's force bomb does 1d4.
thats what i thought it might do. PF is basically set on the fact that force does 1 die type less than regular. then people b%&%+ about how evocation spells sucks and d6s arent good enough, so how do you think they will feel about d4's? lol
im editing now. just wanted to say that ive added that targeting mode takes a swift action now (its stated in the description) and that ive added that the slam attacks may be treated as two separate weapons for the purposes of two weapon fighting. i also edited force wave to 1d4 per level. seemed fair.
i also added in the bit about the abundant step ability for the hyper speed.
i still need to know about the uses per day of the elemental ray so i can edit that if need be before i repost the class.
d4s that aren't resisted...ever.
I wouldn't base the ray off of the Bombs. Those are AoE, this is single target. It should be a bit better than bombs.
I wouldn't base the ray off of the Bombs. Those are AoE, this is single target. It should be a bit better than bombs.
im not gonna change them to AoE. i hate AoE. i was referring to the uses per day.
Right, I wasn't saying AoE. I was saying that since these are single targets, they should be better than bombs. So they should get more uses per day than half of bombs :)
i was viewing it as this.
the alchemist gets more bombs per day, but they are AoE, not the best thing in some situations, and you have to take discoveries to miss your friends.
the AE gets single target, and thus less per day, but doesnt have to worry about hitting his friends nor taking discoveries to do that. plus you can spend two points to get an extra use (which if i give them the per level, i would most likely have to take out, but why wouldnt you be able to revert power from your suit to your ray?).
You don't have to take the discoveries. They can soak up the damage :p
I really do think most people would rather have AoE. Works better if there's more than one enemy. Plus, doing all those status effects against multiple enemies? Very, very good. Yes, precise bombs is near-necessary if you want to focus on bombs...but so what? Power Attack is near-necessary if you want to do damage.
It's like scorching ray / fireball. Scorching ray is lower level, since it's far fewer targets than fireball. It'll also eventually do a higher average damage if they're all against one target.
You don't have to take the discoveries. They can soak up the damage :p
I really do think most people would rather have AoE. Works better if there's more than one enemy. Plus, doing all those status effects against multiple enemies? Very, very good. Yes, precise bombs is near-necessary if you want to focus on bombs...but so what? Power Attack is near-necessary if you want to do damage.
It's like scorching ray / fireball. Scorching ray is lower level, since it's far fewer targets than fireball. It'll also eventually do a higher average damage if they're all against one target.
players believe it or not dont really care so much about the damage, its those status effects that gets them b~$%*ing lol.
so what say you on the number of rays per day?
Well, that depends on how often you want it to be used. Do you want it to be a primary weapon? Then at least full level + Int Mod.
At level 8, bombs run into the issue where you will rapidly deplete your reserves if you full-attack with them more than...4-5 times.
So if you want it to be a primary attack, I'd recommend figuring out a way to make it get more rounds once they can get Quick Ray. Maybe add twice your Int mod. Haven't thought too hard about it.
its not supposed to be the primary attack. thats up to the player. its supposed to be a primary feature though.
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Ah, so it costs you a number of creation points at level 1 equal to the armor bonus ? I didn't find it mentioned anywhere, but I may have missed the sentence, so it could really be worth adding. It's maybe a bit rough, when you know that an average fighter will have this +9 armor at level 3 without sacrificing his class abilities. But again, armchair development I'm doing right now.
For the blueprint list, there are some spells from Ultimate Combat that would be worth checking and that are really both flavorful and useful for an engineer.
No disrespect intended, but I really think the ray should be more tied to the bombs mechanics, and for the balance of the following archetype, I'll assume the rays are treated as alchemist bombs ; even if it should then be treated as it's own take on your already really good class. This doesn't make the rays having an AoE. Thus, the following would replace the ability of the same name :
Energy Ray (Su)
At 1st level, the armored-engineer is capable of charging raw energy to unleash a ray damaging enemies from a distance. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to his armored-engineer class level + his Intelligence modifier.
The armored-engineer may also spend 2 modification points to get 1 additional use of his elemental ray. This ray has a maximum range of 30 feet, and is a ranged touch attack that deals 1d6 points damage of fire damage + the armored-engineer’s Intelligence modifier. The damage of the armored-engineer’s elemental ray increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered armored-engineer level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). The elemental ray is considered a weapon, and can be selected using feats such as Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus ; it is also treated as a bomb for the purposes of the following alchemical discoveries (which the armored-engineer may select as modifications to his armor): Acid Bomb*, Blinding Bomb, Breath Weapon bomb*, Concussive Bomb*, Confusion Bomb, Dispelling Bomb, Explosive Missile, Quick Bombs, Force Bomb*, Frost Bomb*, Immolation Bomb*, Madness Bomb, Shock Bomb*, Siege Bomb*, Sunlight Bomb, Tanglefoot Bomb. (*Discoveries/modifications with an asterisk do not stack.)
Using this ability is a standard action.
Example Gadgets: shoulder cannon, wrist barrel, palm repulsors, flamethrower, tesla coils, nitrogen vaporisator.
(Here should be the Iron-clad engineer, but while writting, I honestly didn't find much to change for the base class to already allow to play an iron man-like character... maybe trading Endurance for a modification ? Greater modification pool for less devices/day ? I'll see this later, but I don't see so much to change as to justify an archetype...)
Ah, so it costs you a number of creation points at level 1 equal to the armor bonus ? I didn't find it mentioned anywhere, but I may have missed the sentence, so it could really be worth adding. It's maybe a bit rough, when you know that an average fighter will have this +9 armor at level 3 without sacrificing his class abilities. But again, armchair development I'm doing right now.
For the blueprint list, there are some spells from Ultimate Combat that would be worth checking and that are really both flavorful and useful for an engineer.
No disrespect intended, but I really think the ray should be more tied to the bombs mechanics, and for the balance of the following archetype, I'll assume the rays are treated as alchemist bombs ; even if it should then be treated as it's own take on your already really good class. This doesn't make the rays having an AoE. Thus, the following would replace the ability of the same name :
Energy Ray (Su)
At 1st level, the armored-engineer is capable of charging raw energy to unleash a ray damaging enemies from a distance. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to his armored-engineer class level + his Intelligence modifier.
The armored-engineer may also spend 2 modification points to get 1 additional use of his elemental ray. This ray has a maximum range of 30 feet, and is a ranged touch attack that deals 1d6 points damage of fire damage + the armored-engineer’s Intelligence modifier. The damage of the armored-engineer’s elemental ray increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered armored-engineer level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). The elemental ray is considered a weapon, and can be selected using feats such as Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus ; it is also treated as a bomb for the purposes of the following alchemical discoveries (which the armored-engineer may select as modifications to his armor): Acid Bomb*, Blinding Bomb, Breath Weapon bomb*, Concussive Bomb*,...
Thanks for this. I do think I'll use it.
Off topic, but I just found your mountless samurai. Think it would work in my steampunk guns everywhere setting mechanics wise? Thematically it does work, considering the direction I'm going in with my Japan-inspired country. I'm more concerned about mechanics.
Mind if I create a challenge-less version?
Ah, so it costs you a number of creation points at level 1 equal to the armor bonus ? I didn't find it mentioned anywhere, but I may have missed the sentence, so it could really be worth adding. It's maybe a bit rough, when you know that an average fighter will have this +9 armor at level 3 without sacrificing his class abilities. But again, armchair development I'm doing right now.
Under Power Armor:
They also begin play with 10 power armor creation points in which they can spend to add modifications to their power armor. They can take any regular modification for which they meet the requirements. Each modification, unless otherwise stated, costs 2 creation points.
Racial armor modifications (such as gnomish armor, elfish armor, etc) may be taken by members of that race for 1 creation point and members of other races for 2 creation points.
Under Upgrade Armor Modification:
The armored-engineer can upgrade his power armor by one step on Table 3. For example, if the armored-engineer has medium power armor +6 and takes this modification, it becomes heavy power armor +7. This modification may be taken multiple times. Power armor cannot be upgraded past what is listed on Table 3. This modification may be purchased at character creation for 1 power armor creation point.
i hope that clears things up ;)
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Thanks for this. I do think I'll use it.
Thanks Paizo and Fnipernackle, I just copy-pasted what made sense.
Off topic, but I just found your mountless samurai. Think it would work in my steampunk guns everywhere setting mechanics wise? Thematically it does work, considering the direction I'm going in with my Japan-inspired country. I'm more concerned about mechanics.
Mind if I create a challenge-less version?
Answering this on the appropriate thread.
@ Maxximilius
do you think i should increase the number of times per day they can use the elemental ray?
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@ Maxximilius
do you think i should increase the number of times per day they can use the elemental ray?
From my point of view, the version of elemental Ray I wrote on my previous post is how the ability should be. It includes both more rays per day, and a lot more options to any engineer for his character's way of fighting. Now, it's your class so take it as you wish.
From my point of view, the version of elemental Ray I wrote on my previous post is how the ability should be. It includes both more rays per day, and a lot more options to any engineer for his character's way of fighting. Now, it's your class so take it as you wish.@ Maxximilius
do you think i should increase the number of times per day they can use the elemental ray?
since the class isnt an alternate class of the alchemist, it wouldnt be able to use those discoveries.
also, most of those discoveries, like shock, frost, force, etc, have been either made into modifications or you choose what elemental type at character creation.
it doesnt make sense, in my opinion, to have a electric core, but you shoot fire rays.
now what i think i am going to do is add your ray onto the bottom of the document as Alternative Class Options, which will basically state that although this is its own core class, you can treat it as an alchemist alternate class, which gives you access to the ray you suggested instead of the ray that i wrote originally. that way you can pick how you want the ray to be.
now what im suggesting is listing this as an archetype, because i think that that many rays per day along with all the other features you get from the class is not within game balance. i dont know what you would lose when you take this type of ray, so i leave that up to you to decide. what do you think the class should lose if it took your "archetype?"
this is just if we go that route.
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it doesnt make sense, in my opinion, to have a electric core, but you shoot fire rays.
In the version I wrote previously, you don't begin with an electric core : you begin with a simple fire attack but may spend modifications to shoot with other elements, and these elements have debuffs included (shooting a ray of force would make the target prone unless it succeeds at a reflex save), just like alchemist bomb discoveries.
The question isn't "what do you think the class should lose if it took your "archetype?"", but what do YOU believe makes up for having only so few elemental rays per day in your class, while the closest official class you can use as a balancing tool (here, Alchemist : d8s, 6 levels of spells-like items, special elemental ranged attack dealing progressive damage a limited amount of times/day, etc.) is getting more bang for it's buck ?
it doesnt make sense, in my opinion, to have a electric core, but you shoot fire rays.In the version I wrote previously, you don't begin with an electric core : you begin with a simple fire attack but may spend modifications to shoot with other elements, and these elements have debuffs included (shooting a ray of force would make the target prone unless it succeeds at a reflex save), just like alchemist bomb discoveries.
The question isn't "what do you think the class should lose if it took your "archetype?"", but what do YOU believe makes up for having only so few elemental rays per day in your class, while the closest official class you can use as a balancing tool (here, Alchemist : d8s, 6 levels of spells-like items, special elemental ranged attack dealing progressive damage a limited amount of times/day, etc.) is getting more bang for it's buck ?
when we looked at the class as a balancing factor, we decided to go with that, due to that you get soooooo many other options, you dont have to spend money on magical armor enhancements and such, the fact that you get a lay on hands for your armor, the fact that you get blueprints that are spells, the fact that you get continual upgrades to the armor class, the fact that you get an extra ability mod to a physical stat every four levels in addition to normal character progression, etc.
and with it the way you wrote it, if you use modification points, basically fluff wise you are pulling power straight from the power core to fuel the attack, and thus if you were to pull from an electrical source and put that pure energy into the elemental ray, it would come out electricity, not fire. the reason its written as such is because people wanted to pick what they shot due to what fueled their power armor.
basically we figured we'd give it half level plus int mod because full level plus int mod seemed to be giving too much to a class that got so much already. this is why i propose your change to the ray as an archetype, since youll be more focused on that. when you give it full level plus int mod, he'll never run out of things to do. he'll have spells, and his mods, and then a s#&$ ton of rays. everyone runs out of things when the pressure is put on them. spellcasters run out of spells, fighters run out of hp, etc. this class should be no different. if i were to go with the full class plus int, id take out the ability to spend 2 points to get another use.