where are the size rules for grappling posted?
the Brutal Pugilist has a thing about size in its class ability and don't get it the ability is here:
improved Savage Grapple (Ex)
At 5th level, the brutal pugilist takes no penalties to Dexterity, attack rolls, and combat maneuver checks when she has the grappled condition. She also is treated as one size larger than her actual size when determining whether she can grapple or be grappled by another creature.
This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.
can some body fill me in on the what size creatures can grapple who?
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where are the size rules for grappling posted?
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can some body fill me in on the what size creatures can grapple who?
This link proves that with enough circumstantial bonuses, or perhaps lucky enough dice rolls, there is NO limit on size difference and successfully grappling.
(cut right to 7:30-8:30 to get to the epic grapplingness)
Rules wise, there are no limits on grappling when it comes to size. You get a bonus or a penalty to the CMB roll and your CMD based on your size, but that's it as far as I can tell.
I believe Pathfinder got rid of the size limitation 3rd edition had.
can some body fill me in on the what size creatures can grapple who?
I suspect it's a holdover as Azten said, but it would probably apply to Grab (Ex).
I don’t think there’s a limit on size. I think the “also is treated as one size larger than her actual size when determining whether she can grapple or be grappled by another creature” is used for things like the Grab special ability.
PRD: Grab
Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line.
Edit:Ninja'd
Edit:Ninja'd
so how does that help me? i can't be grabbed because i am considered bigger? or I can be grabbed by more things but also post grab punch them in the face.
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so how does that help me? i can't be grabbed because i am considered bigger? or I can be grabbed by more things but also post grab punch them in the face.
You couldn't be Grabbed.
However that doesn't prevent you from being grappled. You may have to 'grab' someone to grapple them, but just the act of seizing someone does not equate to the ability called Grab.
Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply to use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature's descriptive text).
EDIT: upon rereading grab, looks like size is again not a prerequisite. So yeah something smaller CAN apparently Grab you and trigger a free grapple attempt. But as mentioned, there are size bonuses/penalties that make it prohibitively difficult for something smaller to grapple something bigger.
If you are a medium creature with that ability, you would be treated as Large. A creature with grab can only use Grab on creatures of the same size or smaller, so a Medium creature couldn't use Grab to get a free grapple attempt against you. Other than that, I think all you would get are the bonuses to grapple for being large.
Edit: + the "the brutal pugilist takes no penalties to Dexterity, attack rolls, and combat maneuver checks when she has the grappled condition." part of course.
EDIT: upon rereading grab, looks like size is again not a prerequisite.
Where did you find that text? It seems to be missing this part:
"Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line."
It is useful with/against grab, some spells/wondrous items, and for the Body Bludgeon rage power.
so....I can't be grabbed because I count as one size larger unless specifically stated in the monster attack......
so....I can't be grabbed because I count as one size larger unless specifically stated in the monster attack......
As written, it does nothing. As intended, maybe it means they wanted it to work against the Grab ability, in which case, if a Medium creature could Grab same size or smaller, it would be unable to Grab you. That's how I would run it, to give some small benefit to that part of the ability.
As written, it does nothing. As intended, maybe it means they wanted it to work against the Grab ability, in which case, if a Medium creature could Grab same size or smaller, it would be unable to Grab you. That's how I would run it, to give some small benefit to that part of the ability.
I guess I am confused about the ability why would it say that do I get certain bonuses to being treated "bigger"
As written, it does nothing. As intended, maybe it means they wanted it to work against the Grab ability, in which case, if a Medium creature could Grab same size or smaller, it would be unable to Grab you. That's how I would run it, to give some small benefit to that part of the ability.
let me rephrase it this way What benefits do i get for being treated one size larger during a grapple by RAW
how does that line help me or hurt me? at all.
let me rephrase it this way What benefits do i get for being treated one size larger during a grapple by RAW
how does that line help me or hurt me? at all.
CMB = Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier
CMD = 10 + Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + Dexterity modifier + special size modifier
The size modifier goes from 0 (Assuming Medium) to +1 (Large) so you get +1 to both.
let me rephrase it this way What benefits do i get for being treated one size larger during a grapple by RAW
how does that line help me or hurt me? at all.
It means that if a medium-sized creature with the Grab ability (like a black bear) hits you with its claw attack, it doesn't get a free grapple attempt because you would be too large, and Grab is a fairly common ability. You would also be able to use grab on large creatures if you gained the grab ability (there is a druid spell that can do this.) There are probably some abilities other than Grab that have similar size restrictions.
There are also bonuses to all combat maneuvers from size, but you do not seem to get that from this ability. (EDIT: These are what Abciximab is talking about, and whether they apply is a little ambiguous. Personally I'd say no under RAW but house rule it as yes.)
(EDIT: These are what Abciximab is talking about, and whether they apply is a little ambiguous. Personally I'd say no under RAW but house rule it as yes.)
I agree with this statement. Had to look back at how the ability was actually worded and it looks like you wouldn't get the +1.
You can in fact, Grapple a giant.
In fact, since Combat Maneuvers are an attack roll, with a nat 20 a fly could grapple the Tarrasque. (Not sure why a fly would be doing that, maybe it was awakened?)
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Also, Body Bludgeon rage power. Can't stress it enough.
Imp. Savage Grapple :
"She also is treated as one size larger than her actual size when determining whether she can grapple or be grappled by another creature."
Body Bludgeon :
"While raging, if the barbarian pins an opponent that is smaller than her, she can then use that opponent as a two-handed improvised weapon [...]"
So a medium barbarian may use a pinned medium creature to smash things since he would be considered Large during the grapple, and the power requires you to grapple-pin a smaller creature.
This plus the Grab ability and some spells do the distinction between the three great kinds of wrestlers/grapplers in the game :
Unarmed fighter : versatile, tough, specializes in maneuvers and low blows.
Brutal Pugilist barbarian : berserk powerful, unarmored, does crazy things.
Tetori monk : average toughness, martial style, deals debilitating blows.
Also, Body Bludgeon rage power. Can't stress it enough.
Imp. Savage Grapple :
"She also is treated as one size larger than her actual size when determining whether she can grapple or be grappled by another creature."
Body Bludgeon :
"While raging, if the barbarian pins an opponent that is smaller than her, she can then use that opponent as a two-handed improvised weapon [...]"
So a medium barbarian may use a pinned medium creature to smash things since he would be considered Large during the grapple, and the power requires you to grapple-pin a smaller creature.
This plus the Grab ability and some spells do the distinction between the three great kinds of wrestlers/grapplers in the game :Unarmed fighter : versatile, tough, specializes in maneuvers and low blows.
Brutal Pugilist barbarian : berserk powerful, unarmored, does crazy things.
Tetori monk : average toughness, martial style, deals debilitating blows.
I have to be barb level 10 for that I am goinbg barb5 unarmed fighter 15
good idea though. seriously considering barb10/unarmed fighter10 now though