Hi guys!
I've modified my barbarian to look more like Hulk, so I decided to give him a furious maddening rage and several natural attacks.
As we are at level 2, 1d6+STR is still something to notice. However, I need to increase my natural attacks damage so I can deliver good amounts of damage by level 05-20 (by level 5 1d6 isn't so exciting as it was 3 levels ago).
So, the question is: How am I supposed to increase my natural attack's damage?
I accept every tip, combo, magic item, feat you've heard of. The only exception is that he is a barbarian and I don't plan to multiclass him, unless there is a REAL GOOD reason.
Thanks in advance!
By every (insert stuff) we've ever heard of, does that include 3rd edition material?
Hi! I mean official stuff. Something I can convince my GM to allow without too much effort.
Hi guys!
I've modified my barbarian to look more like Hulk, so I decided to give him a furious maddening rage and several natural attacks.
As we are at level 2, 1d6+STR is still something to notice. However, I need to increase my natural attacks damage so I can deliver good amounts of damage by level 05-20 (by level 5 1d6 isn't so exciting as it was 3 levels ago).
So, the question is: How am I supposed to increase my natural attack's damage?
I accept every tip, combo, magic item, feat you've heard of. The only exception is that he is a barbarian and I don't plan to multiclass him, unless there is a REAL GOOD reason.
Thanks in advance!
Take Improved Natural Attack for each of your natural attacks. That's the easiest way to improve the dice, giving you an avg of 1-1.5 more damage per hit. Then you need to buff your strength, get the friendly cleric/druid to cast Magic Fang on you, potions of Magic Fang, etc. Amulet of Mighty Fists is expensive, but if you can afford it, you don't need the Potions of Magic Fang.
Also, you're a barbarian so take the Beast Totem line and get pounce for some easy annihilation after a charge.
Take Improved Natural Attack for each of your natural attacks. That's the easiest way to improve the dice, giving you an avg of 1-1.5 more damage per hit. Then you need to buff your strength, get the friendly cleric/druid to cast Magic Fang on you, potions of Magic Fang, etc. Amulet of Mighty Fists is expensive, but if you can afford it, you don't need the Potions of Magic Fang.
Also, you're a barbarian so take the Beast Totem line and get pounce for some easy annihilation after a charge.
That's exactly what I'm planning! Also, I've heard of a feat from 3.5 Tome of Battle, that gave non-monk pcs a small damage progression. Thanks!
Anyone else?
For unarmed and natural attacks, the best way to up damage is to get bigger. Starting looking for ways to Enlarge yourself.
==Aelryinth
Wait... I ask if 3rd edition stuff is allowed, and I'm told 'only official stuff'... then you bring up 3.5's Tome of Battle???
I guess that 3.5 should be easier to swallow than 3.0, but they are not official. Just talking about that feat and wondering if PF had something related.
So, the question is: How am I supposed to increase my natural attack's damage?
Shoanti Barbarian Chew from the Adventurer's Armoury gives you one more round of Rage.
If you are allowing 3.5 things what sounds perfect for you is
-Stoneblessed prestige class, races of stone, goliath type
-goliath alternate mountain rage, races of stone
now everytime you rage, you now become large size, heck you can even turn green if you feel like it, for some serious hulk action
as for increasing your damage, you haven't told us if these are slams, claws, punches etc, it makes a difference for what can be recommended
If you are allowing 3.5 things what sounds perfect for you is
-Stoneblessed prestige class, races of stone, goliath type
-goliath alternate mountain rage, races of stone
now everytime you rage, you now become large size, heck you can even turn green if you feel like it, for some serious hulk action
as for increasing your damage, you haven't told us if these are slams, claws, punches etc, it makes a difference for what can be recommended
I've already chosen human and the attacks are claw x3 (primary) and a bite (secondary).
I have low DEX (7) but was thinking about Two Weapon Fighting. Maybe gaining from somewhere else?
You 'could' but you'd generally be better off just grabbing an earthbreaker or greatsword if you want to add normal attacks. (Keep in mind that doing so would place your natural attacks at -5 penalty.
Also, a question. How is that third claw attack in there?
Lesse Beast Totem gives 2 natural attacks. Wild Fighting (Wild Rager) allows another attack at a -2 to attacks.
Here's something a bit off the wall, assuming you can afford to do it; take 3 levels in monk and the feat Monastic Legacy to add 1/2 your non monk levels to your effective monk levels to determine Unarmed Strike damage. then take a Monk's Belt and and Amulet of Mighty Fists.
Keep the totem Rage powers for special effects like Pounce and Rake if you'd like, but I'd go with the Groundbreaker, Brawler (enhanced unarmed dmg), and Hurler rage powers myself.
Use the Titan Mauler archetype from UC and really hulk out with their Titanic Rage feature and wield weapons one size normal if you'd like using Jotungogrip and Massive Weapons without penalty (a greatsword meant for a large creature would still take 2 hands, but that's still pretty pimp). This would also grant a virtual increase to the size of the boulders you can chunk at your enemies, as a touch attack no less.
Now, you deal 2d10 base dmg (with the belt and Brawler power, assuming your DM allows this to stack with monk US dmg), can enlarge yourself to boost that, throw boulders larger than yourself, smash through walls, and if you take the Body Bludgeon, even beat your opponents with each other!
What's not to love?
So, the question is: How am I supposed to increase my natural attack's damage?Shoanti Barbarian Chew from the Adventurer's Armoury gives you one more round of Rage.
That's some pretty bad advice considering how rage rounds scale.
Also OP if you're going for a raging, fuming, strong man you might want to consider a feral mutagen alchemist. They can get high strength, self buffs, and natural attacks.
Here's something a bit off the wall, assuming you can afford to do it; take 3 levels in monk and the feat Monastic Legacy to add 1/2 your non monk levels to your effective monk levels to determine Unarmed Strike damage. then take a Monk's Belt and and Amulet of Mighty Fists.
Keep the totem Rage powers for special effects like Pounce and Rake if you'd like, but I'd go with the Groundbreaker, Brawler (enhanced unarmed dmg), and Hurler rage powers myself.
Use the Titan Mauler archetype from UC and really hulk out with their Titanic Rage feature and wield weapons one size normal if you'd like using Jotungogrip and Massive Weapons without penalty (a greatsword meant for a large creature would still take 2 hands, but that's still pretty pimp). This would also grant a virtual increase to the size of the boulders you can chunk at your enemies, as a touch attack no less.
Now, you deal 2d10 base dmg (with the belt and Brawler power, assuming your DM allows this to stack with monk US dmg), can enlarge yourself to boost that, throw boulders larger than yourself, smash through walls, and if you take the Body Bludgeon, even beat your opponents with each other!
What's not to love?
Hum... In the game I'm in the GM already told that the max level will be around 12th, so I've not planned beyond 10th.
My original build used to have Brawler Rage Power and by 3rd level I was going to take Greater Brawler to Two Weapon Fight FTW.
However my DM forbid me attacking with a Large Greatsword (I wanted Titan Mauler) and TWF with a kick, so I decided to make it with tons of natural attacks, instead of using a BIG weapon.
Regarding Brawler and Greater Brawler, they are of no use to me because they boost unarmed attacks (my attacks are not unarmed but natural).
Also, I've been thinking about Improved Natural Attack to boost even further my natural attack. However 1d6 to 1d8 is not a big difference worth of a feat.
A PRC from Complete Warrior (Bear Warrior) was of great interest to me, mainly because the attribute boost was awesome, but also due to the size increment.
Anyway, by my calcs I'll be able to do a lot of damage mainly due to power attack.
I'm still interested in your opinions! Let me know them! I'm more interesting in ways to get Rake!
Thanks!
Power attack doesn't really help you ... especially not when haste kicks in. At level 6 with haste a full BAB THF will be doing 18 damage from PA if everything hits (which it probably will). With 2 claws and a bite (Animal fury bite is secondary) you will be doing 14.
You're always going to be behind ... significantly so, especially without pounce. The difference in standard action attacks and AoOs is huge.
Bear Warrior would help though with it's big ability score increases and primary bite.
Haste now works with Natural attacks. He wouldn't be behind, and pounce is just icing on the cake.
Haste now works with Natural attacks. He wouldn't be behind, and pounce is just icing on the cake.Power attack doesn't really help you ... especially not when haste kicks in. At level 6 with haste a full BAB THF will be doing 18 damage from PA if everything hits (which it probably will). With 2 claws and a bite (Animal fury bite is secondary) you will be doing 14.
You're always going to be behind ... significantly so, especially without pounce. The difference in standard action attacks and AoOs is huge.
Bear Warrior would help though with it's big ability score increases and primary bite.
That's the idea. Assuming level 6, I'll making 4 Claws at -2 and a Bite at -7, so 5 attacks. If PA is in then +10dmg with each claw and +5 with each bite.
How should I acquire Haste?
|
I hate to say it, but the only realistic way you're going to get Haste on this character is if your party member casts it on you. Getting the ability to cast it yourself means levels in a squishy caster class--not what you want.
If there's a Wizard in your party, I'd say offer to go halves on a scroll of Haste so he can transcribe it into his spellbook. Bards get Haste as a 3rd level spell IIRC, so you could buy your local Bard a Wand of Haste in return for his giving you priority with it.
Even so, a Bard's various buffs are going to help you enough that you'll want to buddy up with him wherever you can.
Haste now works with Natural attacks.I counted that, 3*4(claws)+2(bite) = 14 for natural attacks, 3*6=18 for the THF.
He wouldn't be behind, and pounce is just icing on the cake.Of course it works even better with a nice two hander ;)
Venshad, you don't get iteratives for claws ... where is that 4th claw attack coming from? (2 normal, 1 haste, 1 ???)
I believe he said it came from wild fighting....
Furthermore, I believe that the bite from Animal fury would be at BaB, since it is a natural attack as well as the claws, and claw/claw/bite are not penalized... I'd hate to dig anything official up, but I saw it in some thread somewhere around these parts :)
So with wild fighting it would be 3 claws at -2 and a bite at +0 (and whatever modifiers are thrown in for str and what not:) .
Haste now works with Natural attacks. He wouldn't be behind, and pounce is just icing on the cake.Power attack doesn't really help you ... especially not when haste kicks in. At level 6 with haste a full BAB THF will be doing 18 damage from PA if everything hits (which it probably will). With 2 claws and a bite (Animal fury bite is secondary) you will be doing 14.
You're always going to be behind ... significantly so, especially without pounce. The difference in standard action attacks and AoOs is huge.
Bear Warrior would help though with it's big ability score increases and primary bite.
That's the idea. Assuming level 6, I'll making 4 Claws at -2 and a Bite at -7, so 5 attacks. If PA is in then +10dmg with each claw and +5 with each bite.
How should I acquire Haste?
Here's how: Boots of speed
Furthermore, I believe that the bite from Animal fury would be at BaB since it is a natural attack as well as the claws, and claw/claw/bite are not penalizedFrom a RAI point of view, probably yeah ... it does quite explicitly say though :
"If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at the barbarian's full base attack bonus –5."
They probably didn't even stop to think it might be used with nothing but natural attacks ... sloppy.
So with wild fighting it would be 3 claws at -2 and a bite at +0 (and whatever modifiers are thrown in for str and what not:) .Ah okay, but wild fighting isn't natural attack only ... so it doesn't really pull them even.
PS. boots of speed are pretty expensive for level 6, but should generally be at the top of any martial characters shopping list to buy ASAP (around 7 is possible by WBL).
I suppose it would actually be -2 across all attacks. Wild fighting should be usable with natural attacks. I see no reason why not. I agree that the animal fury power is sorta sloppy written, but at the time they prolly weren't even thinking of the beast totem powers (I'm guessing here :)) and how they would mesh with the general monster rules.
And the boots are pricey :) There's a reason for that ;) But it was an answer to the question. I Don't think taking 5 levels as a casty and then go barbarian would solve it, though :)
Furthermore, I believe that the bite from Animal fury would be at BaB since it is a natural attack as well as the claws, and claw/claw/bite are not penalizedFrom a RAI point of view, probably yeah ... it does quite explicitly say though :
"If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at the barbarian's full base attack bonus –5."
They probably didn't even stop to think it might be used with nothing but natural attacks ... sloppy.
So with wild fighting it would be 3 claws at -2 and a bite at +0 (and whatever modifiers are thrown in for str and what not:) .Ah okay, but wild fighting isn't natural attack only ... so it doesn't really pull them even.
PS. boots of speed are pretty expensive for level 6, but should generally be at the top of any martial characters shopping list to buy ASAP (around 7 is possible by WBL).
I suppose it would actually be -2 across all attacks. Wild fighting should be usable with natural attacks. I see no reason why not. I agree that the animal fury power is sorta sloppy written, but at the time they prolly weren't even thinking of the beast totem powers (I'm guessing here :)) and how they would mesh with the general monster rules.
And the boots are pricey :) There's a reason for that ;) But it was an answer to the question. I Don't think taking 5 levels as a casty and then go barbarian would solve it, though :)
Guys, thanks a lot for helping me in this thread! I had lots of ideas!
Now I'm wondering how to get rake. Do any of you know? Thanks!
The only ways I can think of to get rake (or something similar) is with the Boar Style feat (2d6 bleed, but doesn't seem to last longer than that round recalling the errata, and requires unarmed strike again), the Beast Shape spell (again with squishy caster levels or co-opting), and Two Weapon Rend (but that requires TWF, Imp. TWF, Double Slice, and a Dex of 17).
Boar Style is nice if you are going the intimidating route, though (as that is a required skill as well). If you take the entire feat tree you also get bonuses to intimidate, free intimidates when you score 2 hits on a creature, slashing and piercing dmg with your unarmed strikes, and the ability to deal lasting bleed that I think will stack with itself.
Extremely useful if you're taking the feats to access Shatter Defenses (Weapon Focus and Dazzling Display). Maybe even take Enforcer for the added rounds of Shaken you can impose when dealing nonlethal dmg (otherwise you have to repeat the process every 2-4 rounds).
There might be a rage power or something else I am missing, but it just won't come to me.
Hope that helps.
Furthermore, I believe that the bite from Animal fury would be at BaB since it is a natural attack as well as the claws, and claw/claw/bite are not penalizedFrom a RAI point of view, probably yeah ... it does quite explicitly say though :
"If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at the barbarian's full base attack bonus –5."
They probably didn't even stop to think it might be used with nothing but natural attacks ... sloppy.
So with wild fighting it would be 3 claws at -2 and a bite at +0 (and whatever modifiers are thrown in for str and what not:) .Ah okay, but wild fighting isn't natural attack only ... so it doesn't really pull them even.
PS. boots of speed are pretty expensive for level 6, but should generally be at the top of any martial characters shopping list to buy ASAP (around 7 is possible by WBL).
I suppose it would actually be -2 across all attacks. Wild fighting should be usable with natural attacks. I see no reason why not. I agree that the animal fury power is sorta sloppy written, but at the time they prolly weren't even thinking of the beast totem powers (I'm guessing here :)) and how they would mesh with the general monster rules.
And the boots are pricey :) There's a reason for that ;) But it was an answer to the question. I Don't think taking 5 levels as a casty and then go barbarian would solve it, though :)
Guys, thanks a lot for helping me in this thread! I had lots of ideas!
Now I'm wondering how to get rake. Do any of you know? Thanks!
Not really rake, but every bit counts, I suppose...
Hi!
I just noted that Natural Attacks ARE treated as unarmed.
"Armed" Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
So all the feats that give bonuses to Unarmed Strikes also work with my natural attacks!
This opens lots of possibilities!
By now this is my 10 level Feat/Power/Class Ability selection.
Barbarian 2 Rage Power (Beast Totem, Lesser), Wild Fighting
Barbarian 3 Battle Scavenger, Rage Power (Animal Fury)
Barbarian 4 Rage Power (Renewed Vigor)
Barbarian 5 Rage Conversion, Power Attack
Barbarian 6 Rage Power (Regenerative Vigor)
Barbarian 7 Feat, DR 1/-
Barbarian 8 Rage Power (Beast Totem)
Barbarian 9 FEAT
Barbarian 10 Rage Power (Greater Beast Totem), DR 2/-
As editing is not an option, I'm updating my 10 level progression below.
Barbarian 1 Uncontrolled Rage, Iron Will, Destructive, Power Attack
Barbarian 2 Rage Power (Beast Totem, Lesser), Wild Fighting
Barbarian 3 Battle Scavenger, Rage Power (Animal Fury)
Barbarian 4 Rage Power (Renewed Vigor)
Barbarian 5 Rage Conversion, Rage Power (Brawler)
Barbarian 6 Rage Power (Regenerative Vigor)
Barbarian 7 Boar Style, DR 1/-
Barbarian 8 Rage Power (Greater Brawler)
Barbarian 9 Rage Power (Beast Totem)
Barbarian 10 Rage Power (Greater Beast Totem), DR 2/-
Rage powers on odd levels are gained through Feat Selection.
In this build my character will be able at level 10 to:
- Make 5 Claw attacks at -4/-4/-4/-4/-11 (1d6 + STR)
- Make 1 Bite attack at -9 (1d4 + 1/2 STR)
- Deal an additional 2d6 bleed damage if 2+ claws hit
- Fast Healing 1 x1/day as long as rage goes
- Heal 2d8 + CON x1/day
- Add 1/2 Barbarian level to damage objects
- Pounce
This, off course, is without any magical aid.
Comments?
I just noted that Natural Attacks ARE treated as unarmed.
So all the feats that give bonuses to Unarmed Strikes also work with my natural attacks!
Err, no. Natural weapons count as armed. You'd need the Feral Combat Training feat (prereqs IUS,Weapon focus) to be able to use boar style. If you're looking to go that route, you might consider Dragon Style/Ferocity, but the Feat chain is a bit lengthy since the Barbarian alignment doesn't mesh well with monk dip.
Where do you get the 2 extra claws from?
Brawler doesn't do anything for your claws ... unarmed strike is an unarmed attack, but an unarmed attack is not necessarily an unarmed strike.
Greater Brawler states that While raging, the barbarian is treated as if she has Two-Weapon Fighting when making unarmed strike attacks. So I assume that as a Natural Attack is also an Unarmed Attack, as it is in the "Unarmed Attack" section (Standard Actions > Attack > Natural Attack). Also, the difference between a PC with and another without Improved Unarmed Strike is that one provokes AoO and the other dont.
One last argument about it is that the Rage Power states "unarmed attacks", so if the barbarian had also the equivalent of Improved Unarmed Strike, he couldn't benefit from Greater Brawler power, which doesn't makes sense.
So, the attacks are: 2 Claw (Lesser Beast Totem), 1 Claw (Wild Fighting), 1 Claw (Greater Brawler) and 1 Claw (due to high BAB). They are all made at -4 and the last at -9.
Boar style? Thought you said human?
According to the SRD, Boar Style on requires Improved Unarmed Strike and Intimidate 3 ranks.