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11 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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I have a question about the Paladin archetype, Divine Defender and the ability : Divine Bond
Divine Bond (Su): At 5th level, instead of forming a divine bond with her weapon or a mount, a divine defender can form a bond with her armor. As a standard action, a divine defender can enhance her armor by calling upon the aid of a celestial spirit. This bond lasts for 1 minute per paladin level. When called, the spirit causes the armor to shed light like a torch. At 5th level, the spirit grants the armor a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the armor gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level. These bonuses can be added to the armor, stacking with existing armor bonuses to a maximum of +3,
Why +3, and not +5 like all similar habilities. there is an error?
As an example here is the Divine bond for the Paladin (whith a weapon and not a armor) :
Divine Bond (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a paladin forms a divine bond with her god. This bond can take one of two forms. Once the form is chosen, it cannot be changed.
The first type of bond allows the paladin to enhance her weapon as a standard action by calling upon the aid of a celestial spirit for 1 minute per paladin level. When called, the spirit causes the weapon to shed light as a torch. At 5th level, this spirit grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5,
The Paladin have a maximum of +5.
Not sure, obviously, but I think that it was supposed to be a +5 cap.
Doesn't make sense otherwise. At least that's how I'd rule it.
Master_Crafter wrote: Not sure, obviously, but I think that it was supposed to be a +5 cap.
Doesn't make sense otherwise. At least that's how I'd rule it.
Yes i also think like you. It's why i ask the question for an answer of the paizo staff.
And a new french edition of this book is coming and they collect erratas, so if it's an error, i can report that.
Leomund wrote: These bonuses can be added to the armor, stacking with existing armor bonuses to a maximum of +3, I would assume because of this line. If you have +5 armor with +5 worth of bonus features as well, this would bump you up to +13 armor which is higher than normally possible. It just gets that much crazy better if it went to +5.
Sean Mahoney
Sean Mahoney wrote: I would assume because of this line. If you have +5 armor with +5 worth of bonus features as well, this would bump you up to +13 armor which is higher than normally possible. It just gets that much crazy better if it went to +5.
Sean Mahoney
The only problem I see with that argument is the fact that you can do exactly that kind of craziness with your Divine Bonded weapon.
Ex: You can easily have a +5 acidic flaming burst longsword (or whatever you weapon might be) with an effective enhancement value of +8, then stack on the holy, axiomatic, and disrupting qualities (boosting +6 enhancement value to a total of +14) using Divine Bond and kick some chaotic evil undead butt.
It would be the same as casting keen edge and brilliant weapon on your +5 vorpal dagger to add a similar value of enhancements. It's allowable because it is a temporary enhancement, not actually a part of the weapon.
That said, I see no reason you shouldn't be able to do the same with your armor divine bond. Of course, that is just my opinion and my interpretation of the rules unless one of the Dev's decides to pop in here and comment.
Till then, that's my schtick and I'm sticking to it.
Oh, and on another note, that wording still just prevents you from boosting the actual enhancement bonus of the weapon/armor past +5/+3 respectively. It doesn't prevent you from adding special qualities with your divine bond, even if we are reading it strictly by RAW.
That just means that with a +6 divine bond you could enhance a mundane weapon to +5 keen (or equivalent special ability), or a mundane armor to +3 moderate fortification (or equivalent special ability), but not to +5 champion.
Furthermore, when enhancing a +3 weapon you could boost it to a +5 holy flaming burst (or equiv. special abilities), but when enhancing a +3 armor you could boost it to a +3 moderate fortification with SR 15 but not to a +5 light fortification with SR 15.
That just seems like a silly double standard when with the same +6 Divine Bond you could also enhance a +5 vorpal weapon with the holy, axiomatic, and disruptive abilities or a +5 heavy fortification armor with the champion and SR 19 abilities.
Master_Crafter wrote: Sean Mahoney wrote: I would assume because of this line. If you have +5 armor with +5 worth of bonus features as well, this would bump you up to +13 armor which is higher than normally possible. It just gets that much crazy better if it went to +5.
Sean Mahoney
The only problem I see with that argument is the fact that you can do exactly that kind of craziness with your Divine Bonded weapon.
Ex: You can easily have a +5 acidic flaming burst longsword (or whatever you weapon might be) with an effective enhancement value of +8, then stack on the holy, axiomatic, and disrupting qualities (boosting +6 enhancement value to a total of +14) using Divine Bond and kick some chaotic evil undead butt.
It would be the same as casting keen edge and brilliant weapon on your +5 vorpal dagger to add a similar value of enhancements. It's allowable because it is a temporary enhancement, not actually a part of the weapon.
That said, I see no reason you shouldn't be able to do the same with your armor divine bond. Of course, that is just my opinion and my interpretation of the rules unless one of the Dev's decides to pop in here and comment.
Till then, that's my schtick and I'm sticking to it. I think like Master Crafter, i see no reason that shouldn't be possible for an armor, and possible for a weapon.
I think it's an error that the correctors of Paizo team don't see and it's why i ask Paizo if it's an error or not.
perhaps the intent is to force the defender to think about what special properties would be relevant to the situation rather than just throw it all at ac bonus all the time.
Breakfast wrote: perhaps the intent is to force the defender to think about what special properties would be relevant to the situation rather than just throw it all at ac bonus all the time. perhaps, it is (but why for an armor and not a weapon), but i think it's probably an error. I just wait for a confirmation or not.
Leomund wrote: Why +3, and not +5 like all similar habilities. there is an error? I can just make an assumption, usually paladin don't have any skills that increase weapons bonus, correct me if wrong.
The Divine Defender can use shared defense to increase his armor bonus for a number of rounds equal to his CHA modifier.
So, a level 20 paladin can have a +6 armor bonus, with +3 to CMD, +3 to all saves, auto-stabilized if fewer than 0 HP or less, 25% immunity to critical and snake attack (not cumulable), immunity to bleeding and armor bonus +3 to give special capacities to the armor.
this seems pretty strong IMHO, even if you have to use 2 standard action to activate both ^^; oh, and by the way, those bonuses remains even if the paladin is unable to fight, if still alive.
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