Hey there, I´m a little confused about the application of the Heighten Metamagic on a Dazing Spell or Sickening Spell.Lets take a Magic Missile for instance,I make it Dazing get its Slot up to 4th and then
Heighten it to that level,does the Daze effect last for four rounds now or just for 1 round. Thanks in advance.
BTW First Post
Can't first post your own thread silly.
You would take it's original level and then add however many levels you raise it with heighten spell.
Basically
Original spell level + heighten spell levels.
Whoa that was quick.
four rounds it is then, excellent.
Another question though,if i aplly Dazing and Sicken to magic missile
wich doesnt give a save on its own would the guy get to save against every condition seperately, or would he get only one save and if he fails hes both sickened and dazed?If so can i choose wich save to target
because sickened targets fort and dazing targets will?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Whoa that was quick.
four rounds it is then, excellent.
Another question though,if i aplly Dazing and Sicken to magic missile
wich doesnt give a save on its own would the guy get to save against every condition seperately, or would he get only one save and if he fails hes both sickened and dazed?If so can i choose wich save to target
because sickened targets fort and dazing targets will?
The target would save separately against each effect, using Will for the dazing and Fort for the sickening.
Whoa that was quick.
four rounds it is then, excellent.
Another question though,if i aplly Dazing and Sicken to magic missile
wich doesnt give a save on its own would the guy get to save against every condition seperately, or would he get only one save and if he fails hes both sickened and dazed?If so can i choose wich save to target
because sickened targets fort and dazing targets will?
Also, this is incorrect. you dont have 4 rounds. If you apply dazing and sicken, your first level spell is now a 3rd level spell. You can move it up one more level with heighten to make it 4th, but then you get two rounds of sicken/daze. As Abraham pointed out nicely for you, you get:
Original Spell level (1) + Heighten Spell levels (1) = 2 total.
Other metamagic feats don't combine the way you think they do.
So the target would get one will and one fort save, for 2 rounds of dazing and 2 rounds of sickened
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Here.
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Spell (with meta) = spell level
- magic missile = 1
- dazing(+3) magic missile = 4 (1 round since it is a 1st level spell)
- Sickening (+2) magic missile = 3 (1 round since it is a 1st level spell)
- Sickening(+2), dazing magic(+3) missile = 6 (1 round for each since it is a first level spell)
- Heightened (to 4), sickening(+2), dazing(+3) magic missile = 9 (4 round each since it is a 4rd level spell)
Heighten changes the base level of the spell, then you stack the rest of the meta from there.
Whoa that was quick.
four rounds it is then, excellent.
Another question though,if i aplly Dazing and Sicken to magic missile
wich doesnt give a save on its own would the guy get to save against every condition seperately, or would he get only one save and if he fails hes both sickened and dazed?If so can i choose wich save to target
because sickened targets fort and dazing targets will?
Also, this is incorrect. you dont have 4 rounds. If you apply dazing and sicken, your first level spell is now a 3rd level spell. You can move it up one more level with heighten to make it 4th, but then you get two rounds of sicken/daze. As Abraham pointed out nicely for you, you get:
Original Spell level (1) + Heighten Spell levels (1) = 2 total.
Other metamagic feats don't combine the way you think they do.
So the target would get one will and one fort save, for 2 rounds of dazing and 2 rounds of sickened
Hmmmh, not sure if thats right.
If i apply dazing spell to magic missile i think it goes up to a 4th level slot level 1 spell + 3 dazing, and if I understand heighten spell correctly it takes the spell level up to the slot level. (might be wrong on that one)|
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Whoa that was quick.
four rounds it is then, excellent.
Another question though,if i aplly Dazing and Sicken to magic missile
wich doesnt give a save on its own would the guy get to save against every condition seperately, or would he get only one save and if he fails hes both sickened and dazed?If so can i choose wich save to target
because sickened targets fort and dazing targets will?
Also, this is incorrect. you dont have 4 rounds. If you apply dazing and sicken, your first level spell is now a 3rd level spell. You can move it up one more level with heighten to make it 4th, but then you get two rounds of sicken/daze. As Abraham pointed out nicely for you, you get:
Original Spell level (1) + Heighten Spell levels (1) = 2 total.
Other metamagic feats don't combine the way you think they do.
So the target would get one will and one fort save, for 2 rounds of dazing and 2 rounds of sickened
Hmmmh, not sure if thats right.
If i apply dazing spell to magic missile i think it goes up to a 4th level slot level 1 spell + 3 dazing, and if I understand heighten spell correctly it takes the spell level up to the slot level. (might be wrong on that one)
You apply the heightened first (since it changes the base spell level), then build from there.
It's best to add Heighten first to more easily understand what effective level your spell is being cast at. Then add additional metamagic once you've decided how much to heighten it (and know what effective level it will be, regardless of final slot).
Whoa that was quick.
four rounds it is then, excellent.
Another question though,if i aplly Dazing and Sicken to magic missile
wich doesnt give a save on its own would the guy get to save against every condition seperately, or would he get only one save and if he fails hes both sickened and dazed?If so can i choose wich save to target
because sickened targets fort and dazing targets will?
Also, this is incorrect. you dont have 4 rounds. If you apply dazing and sicken, your first level spell is now a 3rd level spell. You can move it up one more level with heighten to make it 4th, but then you get two rounds of sicken/daze. As Abraham pointed out nicely for you, you get:
Original Spell level (1) + Heighten Spell levels (1) = 2 total.
Other metamagic feats don't combine the way you think they do.
So the target would get one will and one fort save, for 2 rounds of dazing and 2 rounds of sickened
Hmmmh, not sure if thats right.
If i apply dazing spell to magic missile i think it goes up to a 4th level slot level 1 spell + 3 dazing, and if I understand heighten spell correctly it takes the spell level up to the slot level. (might be wrong on that one)
What happler said is entirely correct. The only difference from mine, is I goofed on the metamagic increases to dazing and sickening and thought they were +1 like toppling.
You add heighten first. your interpretation is still incorrect.
Aha so I have to choose the spell level to wich I want to heighten the spell, well this looks a lot weaker than I thought it would.Anyway, how does Heighten Spell work whith Magical Lineage then?If i heighten the spell 1 level can I make a level 3 dazing+heighened magic missile for 2rounds dazing,or does magical lineage just negate the first level of heighten?
well, lets look at the suggestion we've seen, to have heighten apply first.
You want to have the spell daze for 2 rounds, so we take magic missile, and add heighten to bring it to a second level spell slot. Then we add dazing, and add +3, so a 5th level spell. Then we remove 1 level from it via magical lineage, to bring it to spell level 4.
I don't see how you get spell level 3.
Metamagic'd spells use higher level slots, but they are NOT higher level spells. A dazing magic missile is still a 1st-level spell, which is why targets are dazed for only 1 round, why a globe of invulnerability stops it, and why the save DC is 11 + spellcasting ability modifier.
The only exception to this rule is heighten spell. A magic missile heightened to 4th-level not only uses a 4th-level slot, it actually IS a 4th-level spell for all purposes.
A dazing heightened magic missile that is treated as a 4th-level spell would use an SEVENTH level slot (1 base + 3 daze + 3 heighten). As such it would bypass a LESSER globe of invulnerability, last 4 rounds, and have a DC of 14 + spellcasting ability modifier.
Hey there, I´m a little confused about the application of the Heighten Metamagic on a Dazing Spell or Sickening Spell.Lets take a Magic Missile for instance,I make it Dazing get its Slot up to 4th and then
Heighten it to that level,does the Daze effect last for four rounds now or just for 1 round. Thanks in advance.BTW First Post
Heighten spell increases the spells level to the level you choose. The other metamagic spells eat up higher spell slots but in no way alther the spells level itself. You cannot Heighten a Magic Missle to 4th level and then add on other metamagic 'free' and still only use a 4th level slot.
So Magic Missle is a Lvl 1 Spell.
Dazing ADDS 3 to the spell level slot used. A 'Dazing Magic Missle' is a level 1 spell burning a level 4 slot.
Heighten Spell increases the level of the spell and the slot it is used in. The spell slot cost is the difference between the original spell level and the spell level you want to cast it at. After that you add on any additional metamagic to determine the spell slot actually used to fire the spell.
So Magic Missle, Heightened to a 4th level spell IS a 4th level spell from a 4th level slot. If you want to have it Dazing too it will be a 4th level spell cast from an 7th level slot.
Heighten is not free. No metamagic is free. They all have a spell slot cost increase. Heighten just happens to be the only one that alters the spells actual LEVEL, which is it's sole function. You still need to pay all those costs.
PS: Raving Dork ninja'd me but his math is wrong. Heightening a magic missle to 4th level costs a 4th level slot, not 5 as his formula would infer. The spell is normally a 1st level slot, HEIGHTENING it to 4th uses a 4th level slot (so a difference of 3 not 4).
well, lets look at the suggestion we've seen, to have heighten apply first.
You want to have the spell daze for 2 rounds, so we take magic missile, and add heighten to bring it to a second level spell slot. Then we add dazing, and add +3, so a 5th level spell. Then we remove 1 level from it via magical lineage, to bring it to spell level 4.
I don't see how you get spell level 3.
Yeah this time I screwed up on the Math its 4th level
It does work fine at 4th level.
In theory, you could technically heighten that spell one level and drop it back down with magical lineage too, casting a 1st level magic missile as a second level spell in a first level slot.
There really isnt a lot of point doing that for magic missile, but just to show you how it works.
So if I get magical lineage, toppling spell, heightened spell, Dazing spell, and sickening spell, I could either shoot a toppling missile
(level 1) a heightened+sickening (level 3) or a heightened+dazing (level4), right?
Just to make sure I´m not wrong on this too, I do get the effect of the applied Metamagic on every missile right?
Also if I apply an ongoing status effect to a spell whith a metamagic like dazing, would that spell than qualify for extend spell?
Also if I apply an ongoing status effect to a spell whith a metamagic like dazing, would that spell than qualify for extend spell?
I would allow it, but I suppose it is debatable.
Many people assume that the metamagic feats work off only the base spell. It is my observation, however, this is only true of the interaction between Empower Spell and Maximize Spell.
from what I understand, you get the effect on every missile, but only once per target. So if you hit someone with 5 missiles, they dont have to save 5 times, but if you hit 5 people with 1 missile each, they have all have to save once.
The last question is beyond my rules lawyering abilities