Infiltrator (Inq) archetype and Heresy inquisition

[Deussu]

I figured I should verify this, although I believe it to be an old finding.

You take the inquisitor's infiltrator archetype's Guileful Lore and mix it with Heresy Inquisition's Righteous Infiltration and you get double wisdom modifier to bluff. Good or not?

Righteous Infiltration:

Righteous Infiltration (Ex): You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff and Intimidate checks.

Guileful Lore:

Guileful Lore (Ex): At 1st level, the infiltrator’s will is bent toward subterfuge and deception. She adds her Wisdom modifier on Bluff and Diplomacy skill checks in addition to the normal ability score modifiers.

This ability replaces monster lore.

[Darkorin]

Deussu wrote:

I figured I should verify this, although I believe it to be an old finding.

You take the inquisitor's infiltrator archetype's Guileful Lore and mix it with Heresy Inquisition's Righteous Infiltration and you get double wisdom modifier to bluff. Good or not?

I am not sure about this one, but after thinking about it the other day, I think you don't get double wisdom modifier on bluff.

If you look at the wording, Guileful Lore says "in addition to the normal ability score modifiers".

The normal ability score modifier being Charisma, you get to take the higher score between Wisdom or Wisdom+Charisma.

[Cheapy]

Darkorin wrote:

Deussu wrote:

I figured I should verify this, although I believe it to be an old finding.

You take the inquisitor's infiltrator archetype's Guileful Lore and mix it with Heresy Inquisition's Righteous Infiltration and you get double wisdom modifier to bluff. Good or not?

I am not sure about this one, but after thinking about it the other day, I think you don't get double wisdom modifier on bluff.

If you look at the wording, Guileful Lore says "in addition to the normal ability score modifiers".

The normal ability score modifier being Charisma, you get to take the higher score between Wisdom or Wisdom+Charisma.

It occurs to me that Guileful Lore says "normal ability score modifier", not "Charisma modifier score." To me, this means that they envisioned a case where cha wasn't the determining ability.

So yes, you would get double your wis.

I'm also pretty sure that you get to choose what order things take effect, unless it is specified.

[Darkorin]

Cheapy wrote:

It occurs to me that Guileful Lore says "normal ability score modifier", not "Charisma modifier score." To me, this means that they envisioned a case where cha wasn't the determining ability.

I think they are using "normal ability score modifier" instead of "Charisma modifier score" because it's a general term, that they can use for multiple feat/talent/discovery/etc...

Using your Wisdom for your Bluff instead of your Charisma is by definition NOT normal

Example:

Wisdom in the Flesh (Irori):

Benefit: Select any Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity-based skill. You make checks with that skill using your Wisdom modifier instead of its normal ability score. That skill is always a class skill for you.

If you take that trait, it specifies that you use your Wisdom modifier INSTEAD OF its normal ability score. So if you would combine this one with Guileful Lore, they would not work.

I think they probably made an error when writing Righteous Infiltration and forgot to say it was instead of the normal ability modifier.

[Cheapy]

But it is normal if you have Righteous Infiltration.

Deussu, if this is for PFS, assume that you don't get double your wisdom modifier.

If it's for a homegame, I'd assume yes but ask your GM.