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Hello everyone,
My group is finally getting to the point that we are finishing my brother's 3.5 home brew campaign, and we are finally going to make the switch to PF. It has fallen to me to GM their introduction to PF and Golarion via the PFRPG RotRL adventure and since we wouldn't be doing this until summertime, the timing is perfect!
The others are now asking questions regarding character creation, and I figured I'd better give them some kind of guidance. Should I just give them the old RotRL player guide, or do I need to make my own?
I will need to give them an introduction of Golarion, Varisia, and Sandpoint as well as an outline of the classes and how they would apply to RotRL. I'm going to have to somehow make them aware that Pathfinder is apparently more dangerous than compared to 3.5 and that it might be wise to make their characters compliment each other (and do this without unnecessarily scaring them or railroading them into specific classes - the group uses good teamwork, but does not have much experience playing above 10th level).
The group will be 4 players so I won't have to modify the adventure as far as encounter difficulty goes. As such, I plan on them being able to choose between applying the elite array or rolling 4d6/dropping lowest (as I understand them to be roughly equivalent) to create their characters.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to introductory info I should give them?
Also, a general question: how long prior to the release of an AP is the player guide released?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Also, a general question: how long prior to the release of an AP is the player guide released?
To answer this part of your question, the player guide to an AP normally becomes available the same month as the 1st installment (chapter) of the AP. We get to see the guide about a few weeks ahead of the 1st issue if we are lucky.
When we started Rise of the Runelords adventure path, I too was letting go of my homebrew campaign for Golarion. Back then, All I had was the first three books of the AP... With no real knowledge myself of what lurked beyond Sandpoint and the surroundings.
So I told my players to make characters. And that these characters would start on a ship. This ship would have crossed a vast ocean, and the trip had taken many months to finally end at Sandpoint. That their characters were begining a new life in an unknown land called Varisia. That we would discover this new land together.
And that's pretty much how I started my RotRL campaign. With knowing about as much about the land as the players did at level 1.
Ultradan
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1) I would suggest the option of rolling 4d6 (drop lowest) or 15-20 point buy. It's roughly more equivalent in my experience.
2)Definitely do a rundown of how each and every class could play into the campaign. But most importantly, don't be afraid to ban a class that would make no sense in this campaign (Gunslinger, I'm looking at you. Samurai, Ninja, and Anti-paladin alternative classes, you too!)
3)Give them some examples of potential backgrounds classes and races could have that would help tie them to the region. Not everyone has to, or should be, from Sandpoint, but they do need a reason to be there in the first place. An option I plan to use is that they grew up in Sandpoint at some point, and now that they are adults, they all happened to return for the Swallowtail Festival.
4)Explain the local deities, and potentially omit other deities that would have no worship in Varisia (Irori seems a bit unlikely, for example).
5)If they can't seem to settle on the information they have, have them pick a class and help them fill in the gaps with the information you know would suit them best.
6)Make more regional traits associated with the area.
7)It's bound to happen. Someone wants to be some kind of "agent" sneaky guy. The Pathfinder Society exists for a reason. Use it.
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Thanks for the suggestions, I hope they keep coming!
@Ultradan: I hadn't thought of looking at it that way. I'll have to keep something like that in mind.
@Icaste: FWIW, the elite array ends up being equivalent to a 19 point buy. So it sounds like I'm at least on the right track. Good suggestions.
I know the old RotRL player guide has some of this info as it applied to 3.5, is this stuff still applicable assuming it has been upgraded to PFRPG? Meaning, can I just have them download the original player guide and also give them an errata containing the additional classes, updated feats, and the like?
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My suggestion is to really pay attention to what each player is wanting to make. Give suggestions based on that for possible affiliations. Varisia has become much more fleshed out than it was when I started running.
For example, monks could have origins in Kaer Maga, where the Brotherhood exists to protect ancient Thassilonian relics. Also, it brings in the possibility of introducing the Peacock Spirit, as they worship the mysterious god rather than Irori... or at least seem to.
You also have Hellknights (or ex-hellknights which would fit much better than someone that is actually a part of the knighthood.)
Black Arrows, for anyone with a checkered past... and a good tie in to the third part of the AP.
Etc. There is much to play off of, do that and your players will have a greater tie to the campaign.
Also introduce the NPCs of Sandpoint, not just the major ones but the ones that interest you, or ones that you think could be an interest for the PCs.
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there is the original player's guide. Print version is $2, PDF is free.
It should work well for giving the players an idea of the area they will be in. Probably want to wait on the Campaign Traits until the updated version comes out, but I would be surprised if the fluff in the original player's guide was changed to any significant level.
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Yeah, that's true. You know, I wonder if it would be better to back into the character build then: ask the player to come up with a generic idea of what they want to do, that way I can work with them to fill in the details based on the campaign setting, since I'm the only one with the IWSG. They could tell me what they want to do with their character and I'd be able to tell them: "ok, well option a is from here, option B is there, etc". And then fill in the full details once the updated guide comes out.
EDIT: which is pretty much what Aeshuura said once I re-read his post on a screen bigger than my iPhone.
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The biggest deal is to be sure the PCs have a strong connection with Sandpoint, as they keep coming back to this little town to save it several times. If the PCs are from far flung corners of the world, they most likely won't have much invested in Sandpoint.
With that in mind, it may be a good idea to hand out the original players guide (or point them to the link so they can grab their own pdf copy), so they can get a feel for the town and surrounding area.
By limiting their initial exposure to just the area of the campaign, instead of the entire campaign world, and more importantly to the area of Sandpoint and several of its personalities as well, you have a better chance to create more of a player bond with the area.
Just my 2 cp.
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As zylphryx said, really try to make Sandpoint feel like home. After the initial part of Burnt Offerings, really try to make the point that the people of Sandpoint are really thankful, and accept them as their own. Their own personal heroes. The bakers give pies, the seamstress offers them a custom clothing item at 25% off. Even Das Korvut from the Red Dog Smithy, isn't so gruff when they pass by. Maybe he even waves, before looking uncomfortable and going back to hammering the horseshoe that he's working on... Those little things that I really couldn't do, because the "leader" of the PCs in my campaign was dead-set on being the super weird witch doctor. As soon as the people started to be grateful and even like him, he went out of the way to chase them off by doing something weird.
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As zylphryx said, really try to make Sandpoint feel like home. After the initial part of Burnt Offerings, really try to make the point that the people of Sandpoint are really thankful, and accept them as their own. Their own personal heroes. The bakers give pies, the seamstress offers them a custom clothing item at 25% off. Even Das Korvut from the Red Dog Smithy, isn't so gruff when they pass by. Maybe he even waves, before looking uncomfortable and going back to hammering the horseshoe that he's working on... Those little things that I really couldn't do, because the "leader" of the PCs in my campaign was dead-set on being the super weird witch doctor. As soon as the people started to be grateful and even like him, he went out of the way to chase them off by doing something weird.
I will just add a couple comments.
First, the most important element, imo, is to connect the party to Sandpoint. When I run it again, everyone will be a native of the town. Also, I would suggest short little adventures in the town that happened in the past. It will help the campaign so much to really get the party to take on Sandpoint as their home.
Second, look ahead at the other adventures and find as many ways as possible to foreshadow NPCs and events. This will connect the adventures together much more smoothly.
Have fun!
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I will just add a couple comments.First, the most important element, imo, is to connect the party to Sandpoint. When I run it again, everyone will be a native of the town. Also, I would suggest short little adventures in the town that happened in the past. It will help the campaign so much to really get the party to take on Sandpoint as their home.
Second, look ahead at the other adventures and find as many ways as possible to foreshadow NPCs and events. This will connect the adventures together much more smoothly.
Have fun!
Though I wouldn't make it mandatory, I agree that it would make things much easier.
Not a single character was from Sandpoint in my campaign, and I just had to work that much harder, though once the witch doctor player lost interest and dropped out, it became much easier for the party to become attached to Sandpoint. Looking back on it, I would do much like Elorabaen and run several adventures in Sandpoint leading up to Burnt Offerings. The Swallowtail festival is a great way to really introduce a lot of npcs and help the players get comfortable in town. Don't gloss over it like I did, it was the single biggest regret that I had in my run.
Good luck, and make use of all of the resources that the messageboards have given. Other GMs on these boards have given me SO many other ideas that I wish I had used, but came across them too late.
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The Swallowtail festival is a great way to really introduce a lot of npcs and help the players get comfortable in town. Don't gloss over it like I did, it was the single biggest regret that I had in my run.
that was one thing I built up at the start of the campaign (the Swalllowtail Festival) and it was the reason for at least two characters to be in town.
Also, be very familiar with Sandpoint itself as well as the residents and businesses.
the Pixie's Kitten, the Rusty Dragon and The Hagfish were three major locations for one of the groups I have been running through the AP. The Pixie's Kitten ended up being the best place to have the fighter get his hair dyed green. The same fighter ended up winning the purse at the Hagfish and, when it caught fire and burned later in the AP, not only did he run in to save Nora, but became an investor in the rebuilding of his favorite 'dive' in Sandpoint.
The other group found the Rusty Dragon and the Theater to be more in line with their characters.
Both groups have a running animosity with the Scarnetti family, partly by my design, mostly due to their actions in town and the events that transpire there.
Any way you do it, be sure you know the town yourself. Both the public face and the behind-the-scenes aspects. It makes the place more solid to the characters.
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that was one thing I built up at the start of the campaign (the Swalllowtail Festival) and it was the reason for at least two characters to be in town.Also, be very familiar with Sandpoint itself as well as the residents and businesses.
** spoiler omitted **
My players got attached to the Hagfish as well. Though drinking Nora's water became a little more disgusting when I came back from my Oregon trip with a picture of the hagfish tank at the Newport Aquarium. :p
It's quite interesting what the players will find intriguing and what they will simply not care about. Watch for the subtle clues that your players give you about which parts of the town they show interest in...
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I whole-heartedly agree that Sandpoint is the focus and that at the very least they need to have a reason to be there. I'm planing on running the games before the festival that I have seen on the forum. I'll have to do some serious studying before the quest begins. I'll direct them to the original players guide the, with the understanding that any of the crunch related stuff will have to wait until the updated guide comes out. At least that way, they can start working on the background. Thanks again!
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I whole-heartedly agree that Sandpoint is the focus and that at the very least they need to have a reason to be there. I'm planing on running the games before the festival that I have seen on the forum. I'll have to do some serious studying before the quest begins. I'll direct them to the original players guide the, with the understanding that any of the crunch related stuff will have to wait until the updated guide comes out. At least that way, they can start working on the background. Thanks again!
Bear in mind that many of the feats in RotRL Player's Guide, as well as within RotRL itself have been included in the Inner Sea World Guide.
Additionally, the campaign traits for Sandpoint have been included in the APG in the New Rules section.
:)
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I whole-heartedly agree that Sandpoint is the focus and that at the very least they need to have a reason to be there. I'm planing on running the games before the festival that I have seen on the forum. I'll have to do some serious studying before the quest begins. I'll direct them to the original players guide the, with the understanding that any of the crunch related stuff will have to wait until the updated guide comes out. At least that way, they can start working on the background. Thanks again!Bear in mind that many of the feats in RotRL Player's Guide, as well as within RotRL itself have been included in the Inner Sea World Guide.
Additionally, the campaign traits for Sandpoint have been included in the APG in the New Rules section.
:)
Boom, there ya go! Makes my job easy after all! Thanks!
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Boom, there ya go! Makes my job easy after all! Thanks!Bear in mind that many of the feats in RotRL Player's Guide, as well as within RotRL itself have been included in the Inner Sea World Guide.
Additionally, the campaign traits for Sandpoint have been included in the APG in the New Rules section.
:)
Sorry, not as many feats as I thought, but there are a couple. Namely the Varisian Tattoo. I think there are a couple of others, and some of the feats could be better as traits. (Such as the Shoanti Clan one or Big Game Hunter, just chop the bonuses in half. At least that is what I would do.) Anyway, good luck!
I actually did something similar. A quick hunt and I couldnt turn up my notes, but I'd scavanged a list of racial, regional and thematically appropriate traits and hackneyed them together (with a little bit of a power boost, I made each worth about a feat's investment and only gave my players one).
I ended up playing with a Magnimar born archaeologist (which worked quite well, though he seemed to lose enthusiasm quite quickly- which was a shame, 'cause he'd have gotten REALLY excited if he'd looked into Thistletop some more and found that it was essentially a giant sentinel robot...). His wife had died in a mysterious fire.
I also had a Black Arrow Ranger that would have tied in to Hook Mountain Massacre quite well.
Iirc, I had a trait for Dwarf giant hunters, power hungry wizards, Sanos Gnomes (The PCs are in the neighbourhood later in the path, I believe. I may be wrong), locals, magnimarians and sczarni, as well as the feats from the players guide?
Hopefully that gives you some ideas? I'd by no means covered everything (my players had chozen their traits before I'd even written them up) but it should be a start. Let us know what you come up with! And remember, the wiki is your friend.
To help your players create characters that are tied to Sandpoint, let them read about the town. If your group is good and separating in/out of character knowledge print off from the PDF or copy the section from the first book that tells about each location and all the NPC's. They will find ones that they want to be connected to. "Ohh I want to be an apprentice of....", or "....was my best friend/arch enemy growing up", or "I live/work/shop at....because....".
If you worry about them knowing some of the secrets of the town, black them out with a marker. If you have the time be specific about what you reveal to each character that way some characters would have info about the town that others don't. The rouge of the group knows where to get poison, the wizard where the best books are found, the bard the best food ect. Then when they are role playing they will be helping reveal the town to each other.