Oni and Rakshasa could go together as both are Native Outsiders that are evil spirits manifested. Oni would fit comming Tian Xia while Rakshasa would be ready for Vudra.
Are there any other improtant groups of Native Outsiders that could be added to the 4th book?
Book Of The Damned: Flesh-clad spirits?
BotD: Wearers Of Flesh?
BotD: Masters Of Flesh?
I think that Asuras, Demodands, Divs and Kytons could get more Bestiary treatment (IIRC some love for Demodand should be in incoming B3) and a few more representatives before getting their own books.
Well, Rakshasa have single Pathfinder representative (at least don't recall more of them) but I like them so I want them now :P
No love/hate for Qlippoth?
No love/hate for Qlippoth?
Their time will come... Again. Be patient. They can be.
Qlippoth is my vote. They have a Cthulhuian feel without mimicking Cthulhu.
If not them then definitely Div. The make sexy creepy (or vice versa, if that's your thing).
Div or Asuras.
Divs and Asuras. They go together (Indo-Iranian legends). Plus they fight each other... And there's the whole good Devas and good Ahuras versus the bad Divs and bad Asuras things. Working out a way to use that in PF would be cool.
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Now that the "Big Three Evil Alignment" groups are done, I could see the remaining evil outsiders being grouped by their native terrain. Thus, the books could be as follows:
Book of the Damned W: Divs and Demodands of Abbadon
Book of the Damned X: Oni and Rakshasas of the Material Plane
Book of the Damned Y: Asuras and Devilkin of Hell
Book of the Damned Z: Kytons, Night Hags, and other fiends of the Shadow Plane
Personally, I would want to see more Books of the Damned in the order above (I'm currently most interested in the Divs and Demodands), but oni and rakshasas may be better for a fourth book, as they do fit more with the Asian-theme and they are natives of the Material Plane, making them the fiends in your own backyard.
Edited for using the wrong name in several places.
Book of the Damned might fit stuff from the Dark Tapestry (sp?), depending on the points of view.
Book of the Damned might fit stuff from the Dark Tapestry (sp?), depending on the points of view.
Rather not. Books Of The Damned deal with, well, damned and evil while the denizens of the Dark Tapestry are too alien to be bothered by such petty moral issues.
Also, I started to think that Qlippoths should not be covered by BotD series but instead be focused upon together with Proteans in Book Of The Primordials (or Book Of the Ancients or whatever). Maybe with a sprinkle of Axiomites.
While I look forward to all the evilness mentioned above, I think a little bit of "The Book of the Blessed" might be in order before getting on to the lesser (in numbers if not evilness) evils... not that more evil wouldn't be a good thing :D
I'd rather see a supplement on the chaos and law denizens...
I agree about chaos and law
if not then divs and asuras
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Now that the "Big Three Evil Alignment" groups are done, I could see the remaining evil outsiders being grouped by their native terrain.
Book of the Damned Z: ...fiends of the Shadow Plane
I'd love to see a book on the denizens of the Shadow Plane. I love the background on Zon-Kuthon and would gladly give up the soul of my first born child to be able to delve deeper into his dark secrets.
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A Big Book of Law focusing on Axiomites, Formians and Inevitables, and a Big Book of Chaos, focusing on Proteans and, uh, more Proteans!, could be neat.
I'd want more Kytons, Rakshasa and Oni (perhaps including Familiar options!) before devoting a book to them.
A Big Book of Genies, covering Djinn, Efreeti, Marids and Shaitan (and Janni, I suppose) could also be nifty.
A Bigger than Big Book of Titans can also wait until there are more of them... :)
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Divs...though honestly, I want the Good Word on inevitables, azata, agathions, angels, aeons, etc. Please please please more info on the Empyreal Lords.
A Bigger than Big Book of Titans can also wait until there are more of them... :)
Yes! A bigger than big book of Titans and Gigas. It would still be 64 pages, but it would be 2 feet tall like those oversized coffee table books.
Also, I'd be on board for an agathion book, especially if it had some more unusual animal forms, like beetles, agriotheriums, dinosaurs and prehistoric reptiles, etc.
Divs...though honestly, I want the Good Word on inevitables, azata, agathions, angels, aeons, etc. Please please please more info on the Empyreal Lords.
That would indeed make me a very happy gamer!
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I agree with Heine and Lilith. The celestials always seem underappreciated.
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Kytons are the fiends I'd be most interested in seeing explored next, followed closely by Asuras.
But honestly I'd rather have a book on azatas, angels, archons, or agathions next. Something that really expanded their range beyond the expected stereotypes, so we could get some genuinely weird, ugly, or even scary celestials back in the game. Or proteans, aeons, and inevitables.
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Divs...though honestly, I want the Good Word on inevitables, azata, agathions, angels, aeons, etc. Please please please more info on the Empyreal Lords.
More info on the Empyreal Lords (and a fresh, Paizo-style, take on the good-aligned oustiders lore) is sorely needed, but I don't think it would fit in a series called "Book of the Damned". :D
And yes: ugly, scary, weird, mind-wrecking, menacing celestials, please. They're outsiders, they should feel "alien" to the Material mindset quite as much as the evil ones.The Exalted Scrolls line, The Blessed Tome of XYZ, etc. would sound better for those creatures, though.
I would like ether Oni or Qlippoths for the book of the damned vol 4. But I would much rather have a book(s) for Angels, Proteons, Aeons, Azatas, and/or Agathions.
I would like ether Oni or Qlippoths for the book of the damned vol 4. But I would much rather have a book(s) for Angels, Proteons, Aeons, Azatas, and/or Agathions.
Same.
Plus Rakshasas.
Angels.
*ducks*
Smurfs
A book for...
1)Angels
2)Azatas
3)Agathions
4)Proteons
5)Qlippoths
6)Psychopomps
7)Aeons
8)Archons
9)Oni
10)Azura
11)Inevitables
12)Divs
I'd just love to see a book full of nothing but agathions. I mean, there could be some weirdness from that, since they are based on animals.
We could get Squid based Agathions, or insect based ones (like a Mantis based one).
And what I would love would be elephant based Agathions
I hope we'll never have to witness Agathions based on ridiculous animals. I think elephant is barely within the limits (and only because I think of Ganesha).
Just reading the descriptor provided in the links listed above, the favored that I would like see would the Kyton. I love the idea of having a greater race detailed out, especially ones that have the rumor of being prior to the Devil's of Hell. It gives another arch and excellent story line to something that I personally love playing.
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I hope we'll never have to witness Agathions based on ridiculous animals. I think elephant is barely within the limits (and only because I think of Ganesha).I'd just love to see a book full of nothing but agathions. I mean, there could be some weirdness from that, since they are based on animals.
We could get Squid based Agathions, or insect based ones (like a Mantis based one).
And what I would love would be elephant based Agathions
I think there are plenty of cool ways to approach squid- or insect-based Agathions. They don't have to be plain athropomorphized versions of those animals after all. See Avorals and Cetaceals for example.
Remember the Zoveri?
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Honestly, my biggest hope for BotD4 is that we don't see it for years and years.
I think I reached a threshold of boredom with new-ways-to-be-disgustingly-evil about halfway through book 1. When book 3 arrived in the post I opened it with a heavy heart and barely got through the introduction.
- My players are never going to these places for more than a few sessions
- These creatures, when they turn up in APs, actually have motivations and natures which can be summed up in about three sentences
- The whole it-was-demons! thing is a massive disappointment whenever my players have spent ages trying to understand why something happened.
- These books are so dense and self-involved that they're dull to read.
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I've always thought the Qlippoth would be an obvious choice for BotD 4. Maybe delayed a while to go with a Mendev/Worldwound AP where the Qlippoth end up taking over so it puts the paladins and the demons in the unthinkable-to-both-sides prospect of having to work together or lose even more territory to chaos and evil/what they have already corrupted into a twisted, vile mockery of what it once was.
Avorals and Cetaceals
[...]
Zoveri?
Indeed, they are all pretty... uhm, I think I'll keep to the friendly term "horrible". Add the Silvanshee. (About the Avoral, it is good in concept animal, but to this day I have yet to see a decent picture of an Avoral.)
I'd stick to tiger, wolf, and other noble-looking animals.
A turtle may inspire wisdom and knowledge, but a turtle Agathion would be hilarious to look upon. Even worse for those animals that aren't usually associated at all with any good quality.
Basically, just because there is a race of creatures based on various animals, we don't need a counterpart for each existing animal. Few and good is better than unlimited but pointless.
A book for...
1)Angels
2)Azatas
3)Agathions
4)Proteons
5)Qlippoths
6)Psychopomps
7)Aeons
8)Archons
9)Oni
10)Asura
11)Inevitables
12)Divs
And don't forget:
13) Rakshasa
14) Kyton
15) Kami
Carry on!
-- C.
Oh, I forgot one!
16) Demonands
Any others?
Carry on!
-- C.
I agree about a book for the First world.
Aslo a a "classic Fey revisited" type book would be cool.
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Avorals and Cetaceals
[...]
Zoveri?
Indeed, they are all pretty... uhm, I think I'll keep to the friendly term "horrible". Add the Silvanshee. (About the Avoral, it is good in concept animal, but to this day I have yet to see a decent picture of an Avoral.)
I'd stick to tiger, wolf, and other noble-looking animals.
A turtle may inspire wisdom and knowledge, but a turtle Agathion would be hilarious to look upon. Even worse for those animals that aren't usually associated at all with any good quality.
Basically, just because there is a race of creatures based on various animals, we don't need a counterpart for each existing animal. Few and good is better than unlimited but pointless.
Different strokes. I think the avorals, cetaceals, and zoveri are cool, and that the silvanshee works well at what it's meant to be.
And I could easily imagine a cool, non-comical turtle/tortoise-based agathion, with possibilities ranging from "more turtle than humanoid" to "humanoid with a bit of turtle". It's all in the execution.
Personally I'd just love to see more range injected into the celestials, allowing them to be as exotic and weird as the other exemplar outsiders. So squid- and insect-based agathions are awesome in my book if done well.