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Garfield is on my list of Presidents who I desperately wish we could have had for real. Hays, Garfield, Carter, Bush the Greater and Kennedy -- had we had them for full terms, or two full terms, I'm certain they would have been absolutely GREAT. Garfield, Carter and Bush the Greater for certain -- great men, great Americans. I wish we could have had Garfield for a real term.
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James Polk is the man I hate more than any other -- since I don't acknowledge bush the lesser as a man, let alone president. I can not articulate how much I despise Polk and EVERYTHING he stood for. And, obviously, his hero Jackson is on my list for not being in the "Top 40" best presidents.
It's odd to see Polk and Quincy Adams together -- I figured they'd be akin to Clinton and Bush, one couldn't possibly like both of them... As much as Jackson and Quincy Adams fought and hated each other -- and how Jackson is Polk's god-figure...
1. Thomas Jefferson
2. Teddy Roosevelt
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. John Kennedy
5. Bill Clinton
6. George Washington
7. Jimmy Carter
8. Dwight D. Eisenhower
9. Franklin Roosevelt
10. Barack Obama
I can't understand why Washington is never on top of anyone's list...
He could have done a 3rd Term... infact... Everyone Expected it.... This is a time when we had Megalomaniacs like Napoleon.. who would never refuse power...
But Washington did.. he never truly liked being President.. and said after two Terms someone else should take the Helm.... otherwise it would seem like another Monarchy..
Think about it.. no Term limits... how many people today would just let that type of Power go?
I"m sure Lincoln and some others were probably better Presidents in their own time... but no one was a better man than Washington..
1) Lincoln
2) Washington
3) Jackson
4) Madison
5) Jefferson
6) F. Roosevelt
7) Wilson
8) Kennedy
9) L. Johnson
10) Clinton
1) Washington
2)Jefferson
3) Jackson
4)Kennedy
5)Grant (seriously, no love for Grant guys? political scandals keep him from being higher on my list.)
6) JQ Adams
7) Carter
8)Taft
9)Garfield
10)Chester A Arthur's mustache
Inspired by the "Tesla vs TR Thread," I wondered what other Paizonians considered the top 10 US presidents. Again, I'm only asking for your opinions because MY list is the correct one; anyone who disagrees is just wrong.
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Madison? Really?
The guy was this close to having the United States break up under his watch. His miscalculations where phenomenal. As bad as Bush the Lesser was he was no where close to as bad as Madison. The political, domestic and foreign affairs blunders under Bush the Lesser never came close to being as seriously miscalculated as under Madison.|
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I can't understand why Washington is never on top of anyone's list...
It's a tough choice, picking the top -- here's my take on Washington: When talking about just his presidency, I put him third; were we to make it a list of "Top 10 lifetime Americans" I'd include his pre-president achievements. But it's a list of presidents. A tiny criteria, but one that helps me with my list.
Washington is is second greatest American of his "day"; he's the third greatest US president. Sure, if you put those two things together he's even better but for my list, they're separate.
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@ Xabulla,
It does my heart good to see someone else put Dr. Wilson in their top 10 -- this guy was such a great president, so far ahead of his time as a humanitarian and peacemaker (save for one particular bad position) -- yet he is so often merely browsed over, never given much a look at.
.... I was wondering who all would put Jackson on their list. Ugh. If it were a list of presidents who accomplished alot, sure, but the things Jackson accomplished (such as destroying the US Treasury) were all horrible, backwards, downright evil things. I wish I could go back in time and murder death kill Jackass before his first election vs Quincy Adams. (In fairness, I'd take out Henry Clay while I was at it, so, you know, both side had bastards.)
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Quincy Adams . . . .
It's so surprising to see a couple people support Quincy Adams.
I don't mind conceding that he could have been a great president, maybe. But he was never allowed to do anyhting; he didn't accomplish one damn thing in office, not that we can say that was his fault.
Here's my take; what am I missing:
-JQA runs against Jackson who has no business in politics but the dumb masses love him.
-Jackass looks like he's gonna win a close one.
-Henry "evil-Karl-Rove-of-his-day" Clay makes a backroom deal with JQA to steal the election.
-Just like in '99 the corruption succeeds and just like in'99 Americans saw it for the corruption it was. (Only the first time it was the "good" candidate who fixed the election to win and not the bad candidate, like in '99.)
-For the next 4 years everything JQA said or tried to do was shot down out of hand because he cheated to become president.
-Jackass and JQA run again 4 years later; Jackass wins in a landslide, beginning a legacy of horror in the US not matched for 180 years when bush the lesser and his supporters fix the '99 election, steal the presidency, and ruin the country completely.
@ Xabulla,
It does my heart good to see someone else put Dr. Wilson in their top 10 -- this guy was such a great president, so far ahead of his time as a humanitarian and peacemaker (save for one particular bad position) -- yet he is so often merely browsed over, never given much a look at.
.... I was wondering who all would put Jackson on their list. Ugh. If it were a list of presidents who accomplished alot, sure, but the things Jackson accomplished (such as destroying the US Treasury) were all horrible, backwards, downright evil things. I wish I could go back in time and murder death kill Jackass before his first election vs Quincy Adams. (In fairness, I'd take out Henry Clay while I was at it, so, you know, both side had bastards.)
The reason I put Jackson wasn't what he did but for what he unintentionally accomplished by his bad behavior. Because of Jackson we got a much cleaner and clearer definition of the separation of powers and most importantly the limits on presidential power.
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Quincy Adams . . . .
It's so surprising to see a couple people support Quincy Adams.
I don't mind conceding that he could have been a great president, maybe. But he was never allowed to do anyhting; he didn't accomplish one damn thing in office, not that we can say that was his fault.
I'll give you that, in fact, it would be better to put him on the "Top 10 List of Secretaries of State" because that's where he achieved the most.
As for Polk, I think your disdain for Jackson colors your thoughts on the 11th President. He accomplished a lot in just 4 years.
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5)Grant
(seriously, no love for Grant guys? political scandals keep him from being higher on my list.)
Here I have to admit a bit of ignorance -- I'm not exactly a US history expert -- the history of Grant I know is of his military service; I don't know much about his presidency.
However,... When we think of the Restoration we DON'T think of Grant.
It seems he was one of the presidents who could have been one of the greatest ever because he came after Johnson and the Civil War. But I've only ever heard of him in regard to the War. When others who know US history far more than I talk about presidents they never mention Grant, leading me to conclude he didn't really do much in a time where a greater president would have done SOOO much. Why is it that he seemed to not accomplish much during the Restoration? It seems all the Restoration achievements came from local figures and future tycoons, just getting their starts.
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Madison? Really?
I know there are some who feel this way a little, though I've not heard it so vehemently.
Absolutely YES, Madison!
Here's my point on Madison: He did NOT want to go to war. He spent his first term and-a-half doing everything he could to NOT go to war. He knew we had absolutely no money.
He knew we had absolutely no military.
He knew England had both.
He knew he was not able to lead a country during war.
But the dumb masses wanted war.
I blame the dumb masses.
Now, once war was thrust upon him (I wish I could remember his famous quote, washing his hands of Congress's decision to go to war) he muddled his way through doing the best he could but, as you pointed out, he made mistakes. Looking at it, though, I think he did an admirable job in a situation he knew he should have NEVER been in.
Great president.
A+@#*$#, ignorant Americans.
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The same Jackson who defied the supreme court
"Defied" the Supreme Court???
Are we using euphemisms, here?
How 'bout he publicly said Let the Supreme Court try and stop me from removing the indians by force!
This guy was a racist bully -- no debate or opinion there, folks -- he hated indians and wanted nothing more than genocide for them, was pro slavery and NOT merely for financial reasons but because he felt he was superior a breed and he bullied and shouted his way through any argument, no matter what. Here's a man who tore down the US treasury because he didn't agree with another politician ("Oh yeah, well it's my toy and if you won't play by my rules I'll break it!")
That's Andrew Jackson -- and as much as I exaggerate on these Boards about so much other stuff (WotC, lame Classes, bad DMs,) when I go on a rant, I'm not exaggerating at all on Jackson. All those things are spot on accurate and his supporters I guess just think those are good qualities in a person.
And Polk -- my History Chair brought in a couple dvds for his kids a couple years ago and someone on it said Polk went through life with a WWJD motto: "What Would Jackson Do?"
Polk was worse than Jackson.
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@ Andrew
Wow, I didn't think I'd see Coolidge on anyone's list. I have to admit ignorance again. I really don't know much about him; I'll have to find time to read a bit (probably just Wikipedia).
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I was wondering when someone would get to Reagan.
It's tough for me, this one. His pre-presidency I am strongly against. I don't know for sure cuz this ain't exactly my specialty but wasn't he, like, the second or third biggest EVIL in the Blacklisting, Witchhunting, McCarthy Scare?! Even if he wasn't one of the biggest evils -- he was a witchhunter, fervantly supportive of McCarthyism.
But that's before his presidency.
His presidency, well, the 6 1/2 years of it before he had Alzheimer's, he accomplished ALOT. And alot was a huge help to the country as a whole. However,... those same great things had another side -- like a coin -- and that was to make the rich super-duper rich while laying the groundwork and foundation for destroying the poor completely. The financial crises in real estate and banks today is a result of what Reagan did; bush the lesser, of course, made it far worse with his attempt to bully and destroy half the Middle East, running us further in debt. But the origin of our problem is rooted in Reagan!
I'm mixed on Reagan because I just don't have all the facts. But from what I know, he did some great things for the country, including forcing an end to The Cold War, and was a good man (except for his incorrect view of McCarthyism), but who set the groundwork to ruin the country in the long term, financially.
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Because of Jackson we got a much cleaner and clearer definition of the separation of powers and most importantly the limits on presidential power.
That's reasonable.
He did accomplish alot. He made America stronger and laid alot of the framework for what America is, no doubt. But he was an evil man, he just didn't see it.
Few things scarier than a strongly charismatic person who feels right and justified in evil ideals.
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It would be better to put (Quincy Adams) on the "Top 10 List of Secretaries of State" because that's where he achieved the most.
Agreed.
Wholeheartedly.What I know about Monroe is that he is considered "The Great Delegater" and sho nuff -- Quincy Adams was very strong during the Monroe presidency. Like I said earlier, it would have been interesting to see if QA could have actually been president during his four years. But he wasn't given a chance.
As for Polk, I think your disdain for Jackson colors your thoughts on the 11th President. He accomplished a lot in just 4 years.
This could be true.
Honestly, I don''t remember the specifics, but I do remember reading something of Polk's term about a decade ago that colored me strongly against him, made worse because of his idolization of Jackass -- but I don't know WHO wrote that biography and how prejudiced it may have been.
I'll add Polk to Coolidge on my list of "need to go back and read some."
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(Jackson) publicly said Let the Supreme Court try and stop me from removing the indians by force!
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.I'm not entirely sure this was ever actually said. I've read sources that call it into question. Hence why I said defied. In the end it amounts to the same thing.
Oh, I had no idea that that may be apocryphal, interesting.
How 'bout this one -- didn't he bully other politicians to force their wives to be nice to his wife even though everyone hated her??? And fired the politicians because their wives hated his wife?
Hello!
Like most things, such a list is subjective and largely depends on what is meant by "top." As a result, the answers are going to vary greatly by the lens through which one views it. But what the heck, I'll pitch in my thoughts.
I can get to seven without too much trouble:
Lincoln
FDR
Washington
T. Roosevelt
Jefferson
Wilson
Madison
I'm personally a big fan of the way Eisenhower played the game in D.C., so he gets to be #8. Then put Truman and Monroe in a hat and pull them out for numbers 9 and 10.
Lastly, Jackson and L. Johnson both need to be mentioned. Jackson was the first "non-elite" to be President, with all the good and not-so that goes with it. On the one hand, he was immensely popular -- perhaps more than any President since Washington had been -- and made it possible for someone like Lincoln to run and win 30-odd years later, unthinkable before him. But the negatives far outweigh his positives.
LBJ is largely responsible for pulling a vast number of senior citizens out of poverty and 1964's civil rights legislation, but I struggle with his sad foreign policy decisions. He's not in Jackson territory as far as minuses to plusses, but it's still got to be considered.
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@ Andrew
Wow, I didn't think I'd see Coolidge on anyone's list. I have to admit ignorance again. I really don't know much about him; I'll have to find time to read a bit (probably just Wikipedia).
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.I was wondering when someone would get to Reagan.
It's tough for me, this one. His pre-presidency I am strongly against. I don't know for sure cuz this ain't exactly my specialty but wasn't he, like, the second or third biggest EVIL in the Blacklisting, Witchhunting, McCarthy Scare?! Even if he wasn't one of the biggest evils -- he was a witchhunter, fervantly supportive of McCarthyism.
But that's before his presidency.
His presidency, well, the 6 1/2 years of it before he had Alzheimer's, he accomplished ALOT. And alot was a huge help to the country as a whole. However,... those same great things had another side -- like a coin -- and that was to make the rich super-duper rich while laying the groundwork and foundation for destroying the poor completely. The financial crises in real estate and banks today is a result of what Reagan did; bush the lesser, of course, made it far worse with his attempt to bully and destroy half the Middle East, running us further in debt. But the origin of our problem is rooted in Reagan!
I'm mixed on Reagan because I just don't have all the facts. But from what I know, he did some great things for the country, including forcing an end to The Cold War, and was a good man (except for his incorrect view of McCarthyism), but who set the groundwork to ruin the country in the long term, financially.
All awesome comments, and I'm mostly in agreement.
I came from a just-above-the-cusp-of-poor family: just enough money to be disqualified from virtually all social programs designed to keep me on the same playing field as my better-off near-peers. My family, however, is a very staunch self-determination bunch with a lot of that Protestant verve going for them, and they never-never would have accepted public funds--we were simply too proud; and I grew up with an unsaid maxim--we're not better off simply because we're not trying hard enough.
Teenage years mantra: Hard work, study, application of education = personal success, defined by my contributions, by what I produce; and the distinct ability to provide and care for my own without any handouts.
Fastforward to the present: I still own the house I bought in 2003, and into which I and my wife shall retire; and I own three other houses which are rentals. I have never overspent my means, and have managed business and personal loans with honor and intelligence.
I'd argue that many consumers who fell afoul of poor decisions in banking and real estate should never have allowed themselves to be duped--too good to be true, usually is. Dreams are not fulfilled by wishing a thing so, but by hard work and rational decision-making.
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1.) Washington
2.) Lincoln
3.)Jefferson
4.)Roosevelt F
5.)Roosevelt T
6.)Eisenhower
7.)LBJ
8.)Reagan
9.)Grant
10.)Nixon
Wow, Nixon... he did have some good things going for him in his first term but... I dunno.
I wonder if he would have been in danger of being impeached today with the politics we're stuck with.
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@ Shadow Cat
I wish I knew better (more); I know(?) that Jackson's wife wasn't invited to play in all the other wives' reindeer games in their stuck-up little high society parties and it really bothered her -- and Jackson.
But I've gotta be missing something because she died so young, like the beginning of Jackson's first term. I wonder that this was going on when JQA was president. (Or, god forbid, I'm just thinking of the wrong president -- but it just doesn't fit with any of the other presidents.)
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Nixon,
Another great president. Top 15.
What?
He cheated trying to win an election.
dot . . . . dot . . . . dot . . . .
For serious, people?
You don't like Nixon because he cheated to win an election?
Maybe I'm just uneducated, here, like I've said, US history ain't my schtick and it's possible I just don't know any "bad things" of Nixon. But the stuff I know of his presidency, I like.
I have, um, NO problem with his little Watergate fiasco.
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Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho
Three time world Smack Down champion, porn superstar, and President of the United States. :)
Nixon,
Another great president. Top 15.
What?
He cheated trying to win an election.
dot . . . . dot . . . . dot . . . .
For serious, people?
You don't like Nixon because he cheated to win an election?Maybe I'm just uneducated, here, like I've said, US history ain't my schtick and it's possible I just don't know any "bad things" of Nixon. But the stuff I know of his presidency, I like.
I have, um, NO problem with his little Watergate fiasco.
Nixon's paranoia unfortunately drove a lot of the bad decisions he made towards the end of his presidency.
1.) Washington
2.) Lincoln
3.)Jefferson
4.)Roosevelt F
5.)Roosevelt T
6.)Eisenhower
7.)LBJ
8.)Reagan
9.)Grant
10.)NixonWow, Nixon... he did have some good things going for him in his first term but... I dunno.
I wonder if he would have been in danger of being impeached today with the politics we're stuck with.
Nixon was pretty good in Futurama... well at least better than McNeal. and John Jackson. and Jack Johnson.
Nixon was pretty good in Futurama... well at least better than McNeal. and John Jackson. and Jack Johnson.I liked John Jackson, but felt that his 2 percent titanium tax went too far.
Jack Johnson went too far with his terrible music career
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.... (I've heard of Futurama... it's an animated sitcom, yes? Actually, don't answer that; I prefer to keep my brain cells from dying off as much as possible.)
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Ben Franklin.
Greatest
American
To
Ever
Live.
Not even close.
(But he wasn't a president. He just invented America. And just about everything else important to humanity except the lightbulb and vaccines.)
No love for Truman? He not only made the decision that ended our fighting in WWII but he also caused one of the most horrific tragedies in recorded history...twice. If that isn't a great American president, I don't know who is.
1. Benjamin Franklin
2. Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho
3. Who cares, 1 & 2 are so awesome, they dominate all comers.
President Camacho hahahhahaahha I love that movie. "Its got 'Lectrolytes!"