While I personally don't play Dark Heresy, I do run Deathwatch, which is part of the 40K RPG line. My players are having an absolute blast in the campaign, and so am I. While I can't comment specifically on Dark Heresy, below are some thoughts on 40k RPGs
Pros:
1. Best combat system I've ever played. Super-crunchy with lots of combat options and different maneuvers that players and enemies can attempt.
2. Quick character generation.
3. Excellent setting.
4. Lots of character advancement options.
Cons:
1. Lack of skills, lots of gaps in skills that can be chosen.
2. The setting is not generic, and won't work for every player.
3. Rules-heavy. Great for players that will learn rules, but a bad idea to run if you have a lazy group.
4. Characters can be somewhat "fragile" in DH. There is a power spectrum across the 40k games, with DH being lowest power level, Rogue Trader being in the middle, and Deathwatch being high powered.
5. Character creation can be somewhat random, although bad rolls won't necessarily produce a bad character.
Each one has a slightly different character creation system. Dark Heresy is a more investigative style. One warning, if you get into a firefight in DH, take cover first. One shot can kill you. Rogue Tader is more explorative and profit based. Deathwatch is more combative and in your face style. It is also more objective based. There can be interchapter rivalries, hatreds, and secrets to keep the roleplaying interesting. I am in a DH pbp campaign that has gone over 4000 posts and is a ball to play in. I am also in a DW pbp campaign that has gone over a 1000 posts. We just escaped a planet that had a Tyrranid infestation, and watched it suffer Exterminus. It has been fun game as long as all the players help each other with the rules.
Thanks for the info!
So, 40k RPG games all share a similar rules system (a bit like various D20 games)?
So then, other than power levels, what is the difference between Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader and Deathwatch?
I apologize in advance for the wall of text, but here goes: First, Lorm is correct in that while the rules are very similar between all three games in the 40k line, there are some small differences here and there. Alot of those differences are in the character creation systems.
The major difference between the games is the perspective that the game covers. Warhammer 40k has a massive, well-established setting that covers an entire galaxy. Each of the games in the line offers players and GMs a different point of view of the 40k universe. To summarize:
1. Dark Heresy is told from the point of view of an "Inquisitor", which is basically an investigator that uncovers and foils alien and demonic conspiracies against humans. It's sort of like Call of Cthulu in space, where the main focus is on mystery/investigation. Of all the games in the line, it starts off at the lowest power level with very fragile characters. However, the characters can eventually reach high power levels.
2. Rogue Trader is told from the point of view of the crew of a freelance trading starship, and the main focus of the game is on exploration and profit seeking. It's basically all about zooming around the galaxy, exploring new places, killing people, and getting paid. As power levels go, it's very middle of the road.
3. Deathwatch is a game told from the perspective of Space Marines, who are uber badass genetically engineered super soldiers. The game is very much into exploring military life, and game sessions revolve around completing missions that the team has assigned to them, and kicking alien ass all over the galaxy. Deathwatch is the name for an elite "special forces" branch of space marines, the best of the best, who get assigned the toughest and most dangerous missions. The power level is high, and the player characters start out really badass. The enemies in Deathwatch are really nasty as well, and it's very well-suited to epic, cinematic campaigns.
All of the games are really good, and I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. The one you should choose is the one that you and your group is most interested in. The games are all set in the same universe, although in different locations. Unfortunately, due to the varying power levels, "crossover" campaigns tend to be very difficult.
To put things crudely into movie/TV comparisons, Dark Heresy is kinda like "X-Files", Rogue Trader is more like "Firefly/Serenity", and Deathwatch is more like "Aliens" or "Starship Troopers".
The rules are good, the style is great, the adventures are neat... it's just the setting that makes it a hard sell for me. You're expected to play a more or less fanatic character, devoted to things like xenophobia, in support of a totalitarian regime. For me, that's hard. I guess Rogue Trader could be a better fit than the other games, but I haven't played it. Good thing everyone has varying mileage.
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We played a few months of Deathwatch and I must say I wasn't impressed. Fights were boring and simplistic, Space Marines are dull with a capital D and the whole setting was too dark and nihilistic for my tastes.
You have to really love the 40k universe to enjoy these games. As it is I have no real interest in playing a character who is basically an evil, sadistic, xenophobic, totalitarian b*****d (that being more or less your only option).
Basically it's far too grim for me.
While I haven't played this game I did ask some players at my FLGS. Pretty much what has been said is true, except the major complaint is that the system is D100 and all of the stats are in the 30s to 40s. Which means you have a very low chance to hit until you add modifiers from things like height, surprise, etc. Basically, fluff wise its really good but the idea that I can't hit something on a regular basis without looking up what bonuses I get everytime is kind of a dealbreaker for me.
The rules are good, the style is great, the adventures are neat... it's just the setting that makes it a hard sell for me. You're expected to play a more or less fanatic character, devoted to things like xenophobia, in support of a totalitarian regime. For me, that's hard. I guess Rogue Trader could be a better fit than the other games, but I haven't played it. Good thing everyone has varying mileage.
This is not entirely true.
Certainly, the masses of the imperium are ignorant serfs with a medieval mindset when it comes to the god-emperor. But you don't play serfs.
But in Dark heresy you are playing an acolyte in the service of one of the most powerful and free individuals in the galaxy, an inquisitor. If your inquisitor is puritan, then yes, your probably going to exemplify the imperial virtues, such as hate, intolerance and close mindedness.
But the inquisition is a organisation of individuals of great intellect and will, to expect them to agree on everything is unreasonable. A Recongregation inquisitor might well have many acolyte cells filled with individuals who seek to make the imperium of man a better place.
By the time you have reached ascension level, even initially puritan acolytes may have become Radical inquisitors or inquisitorial hands.
In Rogue Trader, your playing a privateer of the great age of sail, bouncing amoungst the stars in search of profit. Your faith in the god-emperor or lack there off, is your business, for there are only a few people in the galaxy with the authority to challenge you about it, and even they would have to take you to task by force of arms. Oh, and you won't be running into them much out in wild space, or beyond the imperiums edge. You want to trade with aliens, because it will give you better profits. Go for it.
In Deathwatch you might be playing a totalitarian genetically engineered, techno-armoured monastic knight of the god-emperor of mand kind, but that doesn't mean you 'like' the state of the imperium. Many of the chapters utterly hate what the imperium has become, for the have seen its decline, their annals go back to the heresy, they have brothers who lived through it. They serve the emperor, not the imperium.
Given these options, I would say Black Crusade would be the best fit for me. There is no point in an imperium or even the continued survival of mankind if it's supposed to happen at the expense of every positive human trait and emotion.
And in Black Crusade, you play either a Chaos Space Marine or a human heretic...in either case you're dedicated to the overthrow of the Imperium of Man. Down with the corpse-god!
Nothing is immutible, nothing is unchanging, death to the false god, and change for the imperium of man.
Given these options, I would say Black Crusade would be the best fit for me. There is no point in an imperium or even the continued survival of mankind if it's supposed to happen at the expense of every positive human trait and emotion.
You don't consider the ability to act co-operatively to achieve goals that span light years of real space is a 'positive human trait'?
What about out undying tenacity and will to survive in the face of terrible odds? Is that not a possitive trait?
Resolve is not a positive human emotion?
Hope?
Faith(i don't think it is, but a lot of people do)?
There is a lot wrong with the imperium of man, but lets be clear, every one of the viable alternatives is worse.
Tyranids: A plague of bioweapon, hive mined monsters designed to eat the galaxy and evolve into the ultimate weapon for the destruction of the C'tan.
The C'tan and their necron servants: Unliving, monsterously evil intelligences aiming to wipe the galaxy clean of all life and psychic potential.
The eldar: A warrior race of such profound arrogance they tore the fabric of space with their own destruction, and now in their slow death keep their secrets to themselves, oppose humanity(who could be their greatest allies) and drift into nothingness.
The dark eldar: Soul eating monsters and slavers who see humanity as a banquet.
Tau: Imperialistic, to young and ignorant to understand the world they are entering, and will only rest once all the races in the gallaxy serve them.
Orks: would destroy everything else just because it is fun and orkie.
Chaos: who serve gods and demons of such perversity and destructive nature, that their existence is a fairly valid reason for the destruction of an entire planetary population.
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Each one has a slightly different character creation system. Dark Heresy is a more investigative style. One warning, if you get into a firefight in DH, take cover first. One shot can kill you. Rogue Tader is more explorative and profit based. Deathwatch is more combative and in your face style. It is also more objective based. There can be interchapter rivalries, hatreds, and secrets to keep the roleplaying interesting. I am in a DH pbp campaign that has gone over 4000 posts and is a ball to play in. I am also in a DW pbp campaign that has gone over a 1000 posts. We just escaped a planet that had a Tyrranid infestation, and watched it suffer Exterminus. It has been fun game as long as all the players help each other with the rules.
For your ready reference:
Yes, indeed. To motivate draconic and disgusting measures, you will need to play out the image that the alternatives are worse. WH40K is a setting where this is literally true, and as a consequence, the human imperium is RIGHT and THE ONLY WAY. As another consequence, it's not for me.
Cooperation and resolve are tools to achieve your goals, and that can be used for any goal there is, whether it's protection of countless innocents or destruction of said innocents. I agree that they have positive facets. Hope isn't exactly what I think of when I consider WH40K. Faith is what allows people to accept monstrous conditions - even when said conditions might not be necessary.
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Dark Heresy (as well as Rogue Trader and Deathwatch) use career paths, which is essentially the same sort of mechanic as a D&D class. Take a look here for a listing.
Dark Heresy (as well as Rogue Trader and Deathwatch) use career paths, which is essentially the same sort of mechanic as a D&D class. Take a look here for a listing.
Certainly more so that career paths where in WFRP
There are broad levels, but EXP is spent in units of 100 or two hundred on individual skills or stat advancements.
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Basically it's far too grim for me.That is what I love about the Warhammer Universe. It is not rainbows puppydogs and Unicorns.
Just because I don't want to play a total scumbag whose only redeeming feature is that everybody else is a slightly worse scumbag does not mean that I want Care Bears and My Little Pony.
Personally I regard the 40k universe in the exact same way that I regard the 90's comics of Rob Leifeld. Yes it's dark but dark doesn't automatically mean cool. On the contrary there's no joy in this setting, no extravagance, no humour. It's miserable, depressing and unpleasant with not a single character, race or organisation that inspires any form of empathy whatsoever.
In fact the "heroes" of this setting are worse than some of the villains of other settings. The villains in Star Wars destroyed one planet and obliterated it's population. For the heroes in the 40k universe it's a completely legitimate tactic to do that to dozens of planets. Basically, that means that the villains in the Star Wars Universe are orders of magnitude better than the heroes from the 40k setting. That I just find depressing. When I can't find sympathy for anyone in the entire setting, including my own PC, then that's not a setting I care to explore any further.
However, that's just my opinion. Give me Flash Gordon and Star Wars over the miserable, dull, grim, lifeless, uninspired borefest that is the 40k universe.
YMMV
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They could always play Brighthammer 40K. In the Noble Brightness of the 41st millennium, there is only HIGH ADVENTURE!Basically it's far too grim for me.That is what I love about the Warhammer Universe. It is not rainbows puppydogs and Unicorns.
I know you are being funny, but it already sounds more fun to me :).
I ran a short DH game with two players and enjoyed it very much. Used two of their adventures - don't remember the names of them but the first was the intro adventure in the Gorgonid Mines and the second was the one with the crazy heretek making zombies. I'll say that their adventure editing could use some work but the core rules seemed solid to me.
M
Personally I regard the 40k universe in the exact same way that I regard the 90's comics of Rob Leifeld. Yes it's dark but dark doesn't automatically mean cool. On the contrary there's no joy in this setting, no extravagance, no humour. It's miserable, depressing and unpleasant with not a single character, race or organisation that inspires any form of empathy whatsoever.
First of all, you have to be kidding me...No humour? Your not british, are you?
Dark humour is one underlying and ongoing threads of the setting. There are entire novels which are dedicated to characters like black adde...i mean flashma... no sorry ciaphas cain, who never meet a witch which couldn't be solved with a laspistol.
As for extravagance, this is a universe where shrine world have statues of saints built from mountains the size of Everest, and where millions walk in silent prayer for a week. There is great grandure and extravigance in the setting. It sounds to me like you haven't really had much experience with 40k's setting.
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Personally I regard the 40k universe in the exact same way that I regard the 90's comics of Rob Leifeld. Yes it's dark but dark doesn't automatically mean cool. On the contrary there's no joy in this setting, no extravagance, no humour. It's miserable, depressing and unpleasant with not a single character, race or organisation that inspires any form of empathy whatsoever.
First of all, you have to be kidding me...No humour? Your not british, are you?
Dark humour is one underlying and ongoing threads of the setting. There are entire novels which are dedicated to characters like black adde...i mean flashma... no sorry ciaphas cain, who never meet a witch which couldn't be solved with a laspistol.
As for extravagance, this is a universe where shrine world have statues of saints built from mountains the size of Everest, and where millions walk in silent prayer for a week. There is great grandure and extravigance in the setting. It sounds to me like you haven't really had much experience with 40k's setting.
Lol.
Am I British? Yup. Born in Kent, raised in Wales, live in England.
No experience of the setting? Played in 4 40k Grand Tournaments.
Still find the setting humourless.
Personally I regard the 40k universe in the exact same way that I regard the 90's comics of Rob Leifeld. Yes it's dark but dark doesn't automatically mean cool. On the contrary there's no joy in this setting, no extravagance, no humour. It's miserable, depressing and unpleasant with not a single character, race or organisation that inspires any form of empathy whatsoever.
First of all, you have to be kidding me...No humour? Your not british, are you?
Dark humour is one underlying and ongoing threads of the setting. There are entire novels which are dedicated to characters like black adde...i mean flashma... no sorry ciaphas cain, who never meet a witch which couldn't be solved with a laspistol.
As for extravagance, this is a universe where shrine world have statues of saints built from mountains the size of Everest, and where millions walk in silent prayer for a week. There is great grandure and extravigance in the setting. It sounds to me like you haven't really had much experience with 40k's setting.
Lol.
Am I British? Yup. Born in Kent, raised in Wales, live in England.
No experience of the setting? Played in 4 40k Grand Tournaments.
Still find the setting humourless.
Yeah I know kids who play the war game week in, week out, and who have never heard of malal, or realise that game once had slann in it. Congrats at playing the wargame at high levels. I never was that good, but being good at the war game doesn't necessaries mean you know the setting well. I could be wrong, you could have lived and breathed it for years, but you don't give the impression of someone who gets it.
As for being british...What happened to you man? Did a colonial type steel your sense of humour?
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No experience of the setting? Played in 4 40k Grand Tournaments.
Still find the setting humourless.
Not even in the orks?
Their confidence level is directly related to their bodily growth.
Their weapons and equipment work because the orks believe they will.
They paint their vehicles red so they'll be faster. AND IT WORKS!
No experience of the setting? Played in 4 40k Grand Tournaments.
Still find the setting humourless.
Not even in the orks?
Their confidence level is directly related to their bodily growth.
Their weapons and equipment work because the orks believe they will.
They paint their vehicles red so they'll be faster. AND IT WORKS!
A man who doesn't get a giggle out of orks, has no soul.
Of the settings I like DH the best.....the rules can be a little clunky....and psycher are OP....but it is a interesting universe to play in. And I hate the mini game.
Anyway just a small clarfication....you don't have to play a fantical scumbag in this game. The Imperium of man is a organization governed by humens...of course it is going to be corrupt. But that does not mean you are.
Also atleast according to the DH book...the inquisitors actualy look for the rebels and people who don't buy the proganda BS to join them. Because they need people to think on their own.
Alot of the Space Marine chapters don't like what is happening to the imperium and are not fantics about...like the Space Wolves.
Rogue Trader is all about being free willed. They deal with aliens all the time.
Sure alot of the universe is deciding between the lesser of two evils to the point of it being like a American President election...but there is plent of room for mercy and compassion and such.
Now saying that...some people fully embrace the fanatical aspect of the game too much...and tries to tell you how to RP your character...can be a little annoying...but you'll get that in any RPG.
The universe is very grim and dark...they don't call it the grimdark future for nothing. But that creates a very different RP that can be fun to play in once in a awhile.
Basically it's far too grim for me.That is what I love about the Warhammer Universe. It is not rainbows puppydogs and Unicorns.Just because I don't want to play a total scumbag whose only redeeming feature is that everybody else is a slightly worse scumbag does not mean that I want Care Bears and My Little Pony.
Personally I regard the 40k universe in the exact same way that I regard the 90's comics of Rob Leifeld. Yes it's dark but dark doesn't automatically mean cool. On the contrary there's no joy in this setting, no extravagance, no humour. It's miserable, depressing and unpleasant with not a single character, race or organisation that inspires any form of empathy whatsoever.
In fact the "heroes" of this setting are worse than some of the villains of other settings. The villains in Star Wars destroyed one planet and obliterated it's population. For the heroes in the 40k universe it's a completely legitimate tactic to do that to dozens of planets. Basically, that means that the villains in the Star Wars Universe are orders of magnitude better than the heroes from the 40k setting. That I just find depressing. When I can't find sympathy for anyone in the entire setting, including my own PC, then that's not a setting I care to explore any further.
However, that's just my opinion. Give me Flash Gordon and Star Wars over the miserable, dull, grim, lifeless, uninspired borefest that is the 40k universe.
YMMV
I am also not sure I can agree with the idea that the heroes of 40K are worse villains than the evil empire of Star wars
Yes, an inquisitor might in his career kill 40 planetary populations. But the reasons he does it are very different than those of the empire.
Those planets will have been fought, tooth and nail. hundreds of thousands of men and woman will have died trying to save the planet. Declaration of exterminartus is a declaration of defeat. We cannot win here, leaving this population here represents a threat to countless worlds, both as a resourvier of infection and a drain on our resources as we in force a blockade. Those still pure on its surface, will suffer immeasurably. Killing every one, and rendering this planet uninhabitable ever again is the only course that remains to us.
Moff Tarkin and the emperor by comparison built a terror weapon, to force the obedience of the whole galaxy, and then enjoyed demonstrating its power.
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Personally I regard the 40k universe in the exact same way that I regard the 90's comics of Rob Leifeld. Yes it's dark but dark doesn't automatically mean cool. On the contrary there's no joy in this setting, no extravagance, no humour. It's miserable, depressing and unpleasant with not a single character, race or organisation that inspires any form of empathy whatsoever.
First of all, you have to be kidding me...No humour? Your not british, are you?
Dark humour is one underlying and ongoing threads of the setting. There are entire novels which are dedicated to characters like black adde...i mean flashma... no sorry ciaphas cain, who never meet a witch which couldn't be solved with a laspistol.
As for extravagance, this is a universe where shrine world have statues of saints built from mountains the size of Everest, and where millions walk in silent prayer for a week. There is great grandure and extravigance in the setting. It sounds to me like you haven't really had much experience with 40k's setting.
Lol.
Am I British? Yup. Born in Kent, raised in Wales, live in England.
No experience of the setting? Played in 4 40k Grand Tournaments.
Still find the setting humourless.
Yeah I know kids who play the war game week in, week out, and who have never heard of malal, or realise that game once had slann in it. Congrats at playing the wargame at high levels. I never was that good, but being good at the war game doesn't necessaries mean you know the setting well. I could be wrong, you could have lived and breathed it for years, but you don't give the impression of someone who gets it.
As for being british...What happened to you man? Did a colonial type steel your sense of humour?
Yup, damn those colonial types :)
I'll grant that playing the Wargame doesn't necessarily give you knowledge of the setting but I have been getting stuff from GW since Rogue Trader (the original one not the new one) and at that time I had the original Space Hulk and Epic/Adeptus Titanicus as well as classics like Talisman, 1st edition Blood Bowl etc. So I'm pretty well versed with the setting.
I think the thing is my optimistic nature gets in the way of what the setting is trying to achieve. In British Sci Fi culture there's two traditions. On one hand you have Dan Dare, Doctor Who and in a funny way Red Dwarf which generally are about people trying to do things for the right reasons. The other tradition is 2000AD, Alan Moore and the GW settings which present a grim and dark dystopian future which, whilst interesting to read, doesn't resonate with me as much as the more heroic stuff.
That's the root of my issue, in a board or wargame this nihilistic stuff is fine, it's entertaining fluff and cool background. But when I was asked to come up with a character for this setting I just couldn't get into it. Space Marines don't have fun. They sleep, eat, pray and fight (not necessarily in that order). That's not a character I want to play.
The other thing is the humour in the game. This comes in two types, ork silliness and Ciaphas Cain. Orks on their own are quite funny and when on their own they are great (Gorkamorka anyone?) The problem stems from the fact that they in no way fit in with the rest of the setting. They are the Kender of 40k, the Gully Dwarves, the (dare I say it?) Jar Jar Binks of the setting. They are there for comic relief which jars (pun unintentional) appallingly with the tone the setting is trying to achieve. It's like having a psychotic Scrappy Doo turn up in the middle of Platoon. That for me is their downfall, on their own they are fun, in context they suck.
As for Ciaphas Cain, he's OK but really I'm not a fan of the "accidental hero who's really a coward" schtick. Terry Pratchett does it far better with Rincewind and even then he's one of my least favourite Discworld characters. Basically, it's been done. Rincewind, Flashman, Blackadder, they have all done it better. That said Cain isn't really high on my least favourite things from the 40k universe list so I'll give him a pass.
At the end of the day it's about what you want to play and read. If you are into the dark stuff then great, more power to you. I just inhabit a different place. That's not to say that I don't like dark stuff and a bit of black humour (I'm a big fan of the Punisher and Garth Ennis for example) just don't ask me to play a character in that kind of setting.
To the OP: All this arguing back and forth boils down to this one point: Does the WH 40K setting appeal to you and your group?
WH 40K really does a good job of portraying the grimness and grittiness of humanity fighting for survival against alien powers and all of the sacrifices, victories, defeats and lives lost that the struggle entails.
WH 40K is also a morally relative setting. Meaning that there is no black and white, right and wrong, politically correct liberal hippy care bear morality that the GM must enforce with an iron fist. There is no such thing as alignment change, and there are no Gods to take your powers away because you failed to say "please" and "thank you". The goal is to kill the bad guys and protect humanity, and the ends justify the means in pursuit of that goal. If this sounds cool to you and your group, then try it out.
Regarding the criticism of Space Marines, it amazes me how little imagination some gamers have. Games Workshop is not at your table, so you can play your Marine however the heck you want to. Some people get way too caught up in the fluff of "Marines do this and don't do that", which is good for a tabletop wargame but not an RPG.
I know that in my Deathwatch group, all of the characters have very different personalities and perspectives that conflict with each other sometimes. That's the point of roleplaying, guys. Anyone who can't think of something fun to do with an uber badass genetically engineered killing machine just isn't trying. Roleplaying is a personal responsibility, it is not up to the game book to tell you how to play your character, and anyone who is looking for instruction on roleplaying from a book is missing the point of the game.
Of the settings I like DH the best.....the rules can be a little clunky....and psycher are OP....but it is a interesting universe to play in. And I hate the mini game.
Anyway just a small clarfication....you don't have to play a fantical scumbag in this game. The Imperium of man is a organization governed by humens...of course it is going to be corrupt. But that does not mean you are.
Also atleast according to the DH book...the inquisitors actualy look for the rebels and people who don't buy the proganda BS to join them. Because they need people to think on their own.
Alot of the Space Marine chapters don't like what is happening to the imperium and are not fantics about...like the Space Wolves.
Rogue Trader is all about being free willed. They deal with aliens all the time.
Sure alot of the universe is deciding between the lesser of two evils to the point of it being like a American President election...but there is plent of room for mercy and compassion and such.
Now saying that...some people fully embrace the fanatical aspect of the game too much...and tries to tell you how to RP your character...can be a little annoying...but you'll get that in any RPG.
The universe is very grim and dark...they don't call it the grimdark future for nothing. But that creates a very different RP that can be fun to play in once in a awhile.
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Thanks everyone!
One request - could we try not to get into arguing over the setting and stuff like that? I'm really mainly looking for actual info on the game, the rules etc (which I've gotten a lot of, by the way - thanks!!! :)
Any other comments or advice?
If we want to give it a try, how knowlegeable do we need to be on the game world and it's story / history? Few, if any, of us have ever played Warhammer in any incarnation ...
You don't need to know that much about the story. Think of the Imperium as the Roman Empire in space. But with Julius Ceaser as the undead master in Rome for all eternity.
Since the vast worlds of the imperium vary greatly, you can invent a planet and do anything you want there and it can totally fit the setting. As long as the planet pays the tithe to the empire there will be no trouble.
If you aren't too familiar with the setting, I suggest getting a pre-made adventure to test drive it. There are some free ones downloadable from the official site. I don't have too much experience with them though, so check some reviews to find one that sounds good. I keep wanting to use the Dark Heresy rules to run a specialist imperial guard squad through the Rogue Trader adventure Frozen Reaches.
Which books do you already have available?
You don't need to know that much about the story. Think of the Imperium as the Roman Empire in space. But with Julius Ceaser as the undead master in Rome for all eternity.
Since the vast worlds of the imperium vary greatly, you can invent a planet and do anything you want there and it can totally fit the setting. As long as the planet pays the tithe to the empire there will be no trouble.
If you aren't too familiar with the setting, I suggest getting a pre-made adventure to test drive it. There are some free ones downloadable from the official site. I don't have too much experience with them though, so check some reviews to find one that sounds good. I keep wanting to use the Dark Heresy rules to run a specialist imperial guard squad through the Rogue Trader adventure Frozen Reaches.
Which books do you already have available?
This is excellent advice. Neither I, nor anyone in my group ever played the WH 40K tabletop game and we had zero familiarity with the setting. Since we started played, I and my players started researching the setting a bit more because we got interested.
As Deinol mentioned, Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch all have pre-made, free downloadable adventures to introduce new players to the game. As I understand it, you don't even need a copy of the book to play these adventures, as the really important rules are included in them (correct me if I'm wrong).
Basic mechanics of the system are: roll percentile dice, and you want to roll low. Skills are directly based on a specific Stat, so the Climb skill, for example, is based on Strength. If a player wants his character to climb something, you would have him/her roll percentile, and compare the result to his/her Strength score. Below Str is a success, above is a failure. Note that stats and skills both tend to get higher with experience.
In combat, all characters have two key stats for making attack rolls: Ballistic Skill is for ranged attacks, and Weapon Skill is for melee attacks. There are a number of modifiers that can raise or lower the stat for purposes of an attack. On defense, a character can Parry using his/her Weapon Skill, or can Dodge by rolling against their Agility stat.
Every weapon does different damage, expressed in a number of d10s, plus a static damage bonus (+5, +10, etc.). Melee weapons also add in the attacker's strength to the damage. You roll the dice, total up the damage, and compare it to the target's defenses. If the target has Armor, that blocks a certain amount of damage depending on how tough the armor is. However, every target also automatically blocks a certain amount of damage based on their Toughness stat, whether they have armor or not. Armor simply adds more damage resistance on top of that Toughness stat. Note that in the 40k system, unlike Pathfinder/D&D, armor does not make someone harder to hit, it makes them harder to HURT.
Anyway, I hope this helps.
Could you elaborate? What are some of the gaps you've encountered in the skill system?
Cons:
1. Lack of skills, lots of gaps in skills that can be chosen.
I think there is no lack of skills. Every class has a set of skills and talents that you chose depending on rank. Also, you can take elite advances with GM's permission that can give you skills and talents outside of your class. Your race can also give you skills and talents(the skills might be untrained but advance skills taken as basic).
Death to the false Emperor and let the galaxy burn.
I play chaos in 40k so I think it ironic that I play an Imperial Sanctioned Psyker in DH and an Ultramarine Devastator Marine in DW.
That is the cool thing about roleplaying is that your not playing yourself, so playing things that are that different from yourself is fun. As for the universe being dark, well yes it is, but how many worlds have people played in that the government is evil and people are at best grey?
For new players and GM's, that is the cool thing about the 40k universe is that it is so rich in history and published adventures with more coming out steadily.
Could you elaborate? What are some of the gaps you've encountered in the skill system?
Cons:
1. Lack of skills, lots of gaps in skills that can be chosen.
This is personal opinion, and there are many who would agree with Lorm that all skills are covered in the system. However, to me, there are some very important things that aren't covered by any skill.
My go-to example is Engineering. There is no skill in 40K for building/repairing a structure. For machines there is Tech-Use, but nothing for buildings or simple structures. So, I think there are additional skills that should be added into the system.
That being said, this is a pretty minor negative, and I am a huge fan of the 40K rule set.
That is because in the 10,000 years since the Horus Heresy, Engineering is almost a lost science. The only people who might have it are the higher ups in the Adeptus Mechanicus. They are the only ones who build the stuff the Imperium uses. That is why a lot of the weapons used are 1000's of years old, the science to build them lost.
Edit:If there is a skill that you feel is absolutely necessary that is not in the game, make it up and figure what characteristic and classes that it would go with and the xp costs for those classes. Like you said a minor complaint, but one that is easily fixed.
If we want to give it a try, how knowlegeable do we need to be on the game world and it's story / history? Few, if any, of us have ever played Warhammer in any incarnation ...
Take a look at the video linked in this thread
That is a brilliant video, I've seen it before. The Gears of War in About a Minute video is awesome as well, for fans of the Xbox 360 game series.
Regarding setting/background, the Core Rulebooks of all the 40k game lines (Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, and now Black Crusade) all have a history/introduction chapter that's pretty comprehensive. As long as you and your players read that chapter, I don't think you'll have any problems with not being familiar with the tabletop game.
My group has been playing Dark Heresy off and on for over a year and it is one of our favorite games. We keep coming back because we really enjoy intrigue based campaigns. We love the hard and fast combat system, which can be really brutal at times.
Psykers are a ton of fun, so long as you enjoy being a tad insane.
One of the posts above said that it required a bit of fanatacism, which is true, but it is fun to not tell your inquisitor a few of your exploits, or heretical contacts.
I had two players with two characters each. One psyker and we really enjoyed the chaos that resulted from that. It could definitely be overpowered but she played the character well...and it was *very* afraid of the Warp so the powers were used sparingly. A lot of things could be overpowered in the setting, really.
BTW, anybody ever try Inquisitor with role-playing elements on top of the table-top game? It always seemed like it might be fun...but there was no game balance to speak of in that one. It makes a decent source book for DH.
M
I know what you mean. I have had to roll psychic phenomenon a number of times. It makes your psyker a bit gun shy with psychic powers if you don't make him strong willed and with faith.