Attack Options on AoO


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

If a creature has improved grab as part of its attack, and it makes a successful AoO, does that also trigger the grab?

Grand Lodge

I think this will get controversial.

PRD wrote:
Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

An AoO seems to qualify as hitting with the indicated attack. However, can the creature take a free action outside of its turn?


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

No, it can't. Only immediate actions can be taken when it's not your turn.
You could imagine the AoO to be just an opportunistic 'slap' without giving the attacker the time he would need to align his attack in a way that would allow the Grab attempt.


I let it happen because the Grappled condition is usually a horrible thing to inflict on yourself. If the monster can get an AoO just before their turn that hampers the actions of their enemy, it makes grab more than just a self-activated I Lose button.

Can't attack, -2 to AC, and the person who you are grappling can full attack you with a one-handed weapon.

The only person it's good against are casters-- good thing most adventuring parties don't come one at a time and usually come in a variety, or grab might actually be a good thing.

I don't know who would inflict this on themselves.


Ice Titan wrote:

I let it happen because the Grappled condition is usually a horrible thing to inflict on yourself. If the monster can get an AoO just before their turn that hampers the actions of their enemy, it makes grab more than just a self-activated I Lose button.

Can't attack, -2 to AC, and the person who you are grappling can full attack you with a one-handed weapon.

The only person it's good against are casters-- good thing most adventuring parties don't come one at a time and usually come in a variety, or grab might actually be a good thing.

I don't know who would inflict this on themselves.

The creature who started the grapple can still attack any way it likes; it doesn't HAVE to make a grapple check on its turn. So the only thing it loses is the AC versus other creatures and the ability to make AOOs, until its turn.

Pretty much anybody whose attack routine is something like claw/claw/bite/rake/rake would love to succeed on a grab on an AOO, because it means an extra turn of rake.


threemilechild wrote:
So the only thing it loses is the AC versus other creatures and the ability to make AOOs, until its turn.

That's the problem.


Nullpunkt wrote:
No, it can't. Only immediate actions can be taken when it's not your turn.

Except Speaking.

What about drawing ammunition, for example someone with Snap Shot and Combat Reflexes?


Grick wrote:
Nullpunkt wrote:
No, it can't. Only immediate actions can be taken when it's not your turn.

Except Speaking.

What about drawing ammunition, for example someone with Snap Shot and Combat Reflexes?

Is there a limit to how many arrows one can draw? Otherwise the character could simply draw as many as his Dex needs at the end of his turn (there are no turns in-game anyway).


Trikk wrote:
Is there a limit to how many arrows one can draw?

Technically, no, but that would mean no-one would ever need to draw arrows, they could just carry 200 around ready to go.

I think a better way is that some free actions can be performed out of turn, such as drawing ammunition, ceasing concentration on a spell, Rock Catching (Ex), Trip (Ex), Grab (Ex), etc.

Trikk wrote:
(there are no turns in-game anyway).

Turn: In a round, a creature receives one turn, during which it can perform a wide variety of actions. Generally in the course of one turn, a character can perform one standard action, one move action, one swift action, and a number of free actions. Less-common combinations of actions are permissible as well, see Combat for more details.


Grick wrote:
What about drawing ammunition, for example someone with Snap Shot and Combat Reflexes?

The FAQ updated this over a week ago!

Snap Shot: Can a character with Snap Shot (page 119) and Combat Reflexes make multiple attacks of opportunity with a ranged weapon, assuming that loading the ranged weapon is a free action?

"Yes. As long as you can reload your weapon with a free action you can reload your weapon as part of the ranged attack attack of opportunity you are making with the Snap Shot feat."

I think that's further evidence that, in any case in which it makes sense, free actions can be taken out of turn.


Grick wrote:


Turn: In a round, a creature receives one turn, during which it can perform a wide variety of actions. Generally in the course of one turn, a character can perform one standard action, one move action, one swift action, and a number of free actions. Less-common combinations of actions are permissible as well, see Combat for more details.

Wow, I didn't think it would even be an argument. In the game, everything that happens on the same turn, happens simultaneously. The world doesn't stop because someone tried to punch someone else somewhere in the world. Turns are an abstraction that makes it manageable for people to figure out what is happening.

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