Slapfight! Bard Versus Rogue

[SPCDRI]

Well, seeing as we've already had the eternal, 600+ response Slapfight, Wizard versus Sorcerer, I just figured it was time for this one.

I say...
Pathfinder Bard.

Move action and later swift Inspire Courage and Greatness that stacks with morale bonuses=groovy. 6th level spells and Bardic Performance=Superior to conditional damage dice.

Versatile Performance helps Bards out with their skills. Bardic Knowledge and Loremaster are great. A 10th level Bard lute player would know more about a crime regime than the 10th level Rogue Don!

Getting Sense Motive as a Charisma based skill? Sense Motive has lots of uses, this is a big deal for a face character.

A character that has a ton of good spells that work with the idea of disguise and lying like Glibness, Alter Self, the invisibility line, etc. A bard could lie his ass off to a rogue and possibly catch the rogue every time!

The Rogue can UMD? Not as well as the character who has a mechanical reason to have a minimum Charisma of 11-16 and can cast spells.

The rogue can heal? Not as well as the guy who can auto succeed with wands of Cure spells.

Disable Device can be had via numerous traits, if a Bard is totally dead set on Disable Device. If you take it as high as the class goes, Jack of All Trades would treat Disable Device as a class skill and allow him to take 10 in it.

[GâtFromKI]

Yeah, but the rogue can do things with his skills.

[Cheapy]

GâtFromKI wrote:

Yeah, but the rogue can do things with his skills.

Bards can't use their skills? o_O

[GâtFromKI]

Probably not, since the response in any thread about rogue is "yeah but rogues have skills".

[Cheapy]

GâtFromKI wrote:

Probably not, since the response in any thread about rogue is "yeah but rogues have skills".

True.

I guess my bards have to put all their skills in Profession then.

[SPCDRI]

Versatile Performance gives the equivalent to better than having more skills, as the Perform would be Charisma based and subject to competence bonuses, etc.

If somebody with Perform (Dance), and as stupid as this is, bear with me, +2 Mastercraft Dancing shoes, he'll be somewhere between Fred Astaire and the Flying Walindas if he somehow gets Skill Focus (Perform Dance).

Ooh, and here is something to consider, Mr Yeahbuttheroguehasskills...
I've seen both Bards and Rogues "dumping" Wisdom. Well, who has the Good Will save and who has the Poor Will Save? Exactly!

[Trinam]

Yes, but can he dance?

[SPCDRI]

He dances his ass off, and has an Acrobatics check comparable or superior to the Rogue.

Okay, imagine a Half Elf, doesn't give up the skill focus for +2 to will saves or a weapon proficiency. Probably not optimal...

But by 10th level he's dancing so well that Deities are going...
"He can cut a rug!"

10 ranks +3 class skill, +2 competence, +6 from the skill focus, takes a 10...

31. Performance DC 30 says...

"Extraordinary performance. In a prosperous city, you can earn 3d6 gp/day. In time, you may draw attention from distant patrons, or even from extraplanar beings."

[Thalin]

Doing my usual, proving most classes can be replaced with a well-made summoner

Sneaks and Pal (5th level Halfling summoner with a small serpent Eidilon)

Sneaks

Spoiler:

Str: 5
Int: 14
Wis: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Chr: 16 (18)
Traits: Perception is class skill (Grand Lodge trait), as is Stealth, uses favored class for skill
Skills:
UMD: +5 +4 +3 = +12
Stealth: +5 +3 +3 +4 +2 +1 = +18
Diplomacy: +12
Bluff: +12
random assortment of +1s
Stats include a +2 Chr item. Feats are 2 Additional Evolution and 1 Eidilon doesn't leave when he falls

Pal (small serpent skillmonkey)

Spoiler:

Str: 10
Int: 8
Wis: 10
Dex: 22
Con: 11
Chr: 10
AC: 10 +4 (natural) +6 (Dex) +1 (size) +4 (usually Mage armor) = 25
Evolution: Improved Natural Armor, Improved Dex, limbs (arms), claw, Electic, +8 Perception
Wears an Amulet of Agility
Feats:, Weapon Finesse, Combat reflexes

Skills:
Perception: 5 +3 +8 = +16
Acrobatics: 5 +3 +6 = +14
Stealth: 5 +3 +4 +6 = +18
Climb: 5 +3 = +8
Disable Device: +14 (we made it a class skill)
Attacks: +11 to hit (3 attacks); +6 (tail slap). Damage: d3+6+d6 * 2, d4+6+d6 * 2.

Spells:
1) Grease, Mage armor, reduce person, rejuvenate Eidilon
2) Haste, Invisibility, lesser evolution surge

Notes: Sneaks and Pal were made to show that a summoner can outfight / outrogue rogues while also outbuffing / outcontrolling the bard. They hide around, and when they come to potentially trapped areas Sneaks detects magic while Pal uses his high perception to point them out. If found, Sneaks stands back while Pal nimbly disables it. Sneaks goes into combat while Pal continues to hide and buff as necessary. They both love cheese and tend to have to fight large groups of trolls.

[The Shogun of Harlem]

Thalin wrote:

Doing my usual, proving most classes can be replaced with a well-made summoner

That all good n' stuff but rogues and bards have a certain flare to them a summoner does not display. I love the rogueness and bardness of the classes. In my mind a summoner can't replace that.