Ideas from improving my minimum damage output?


Advice


with an attack roll bonus of 14, my current damage output is:
1d6 (Short Bow, Composite) + 2 (STR) + 1d6 (Vital Strike) + 4d6 (Sneak Attack) + 4 bleed for 4 rounds (Bleeding Attack).

this is a minimum damage output of 12 when I first hit someone who isn't bleeding, and then minimum 8 per attack. the maximum is nice enough, but the minimum stinks.

this is at level 8. I am a Sniper, so I only get one attack action when sniping. if I'm not sniping, I get two attacks, so that's a bit better, but I aim to be sniping all of the time.

any tips on how I can increase my minimum damage output?


Focused Shot. Not sure if that works with vital strike, but to be honest the ranged rogue is so weak, your GM should allow it.

Focused shot will add your Int mod to damage.


I have considered it, yes. my DM said I could use it with my Deadly Range as well, giving me focused shot up to 50ft (60 from next level). but I'm all out of feats!

the feats I have now:

Skill Focus (Stealth)
Hellcat Stealth
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Vital Strike (via Rogue Talents)

I don't need Precise Shot at all, because I have a Seeking bow, but it is a requisite for Focused Shot.

I could get it via Rogue Talents, but I need Sniper's Eye, and Surprise Attack and Bleeding Attack are *very* nice. would you give up either of those for Focused Shot?

Liberty's Edge

Why not Deadly Aim ? Most of the time, it will grant you a net +4 to damage for every arrow you fire.


don't really want a decreased attack roll bonus =/


Well, you'll be sniping. Meaning you'll be attacking flat-footed foes.

Meaning you can take a hit to-hit.

Also, Sniper Goggles utterly destroys the need for Sniper's eye.


Take deadly aim -1 to hit for +2 damage i assume that your over bab+4 so you can take -2 for +4 damage look it up page 121 main rules it@s probally the best way to get extra damage if your worried about the - to hit convince a spell caster that cats grace is a great spell we had an archier in a game and my sorcerer was casting it on him all the time ( plus you get bonus to ac,reflex and initiative all good)


can't get Sniper Goggles. standard starting gold, but max item value is 1/4th starting gold. (it's somewhat bendable, but not by that much...)

as for attacking flat-footed foes, I would assume the DM will try to counter me by serving me enemies that somehow can't be caught flat-footed, at least every now and then.

the other people are playing Fighter, Inquisitor, Gunslinger and one undecided. doubt they'll have Cat's Grace readily available.


You have missed a +1 from the magic bow. It's a +1 seeking bow, equivalent to a +2 magic weapon, right?

There are a few other equipment moves you can make. Have cold iron and silver arrows, so you don't ever do less damage because of DR. Adamantine too, if you can manage.

There's always poison. I mean, if you're a sniper anyway...

Gloves of Dex would help, as would a lot of spell options like Haste, Bless, greater magic weapon, etc. It's a cooperative game, or at least it works better that way.

If you prefer, ranks in UMD will allow you to do the job yourself. At 9th level, you could easily have a +12, maybe higher.

And keep in mind, Deadly Aim is an OPTION. You can turn it on or off as you need.

Another OPTION you might want is rapid shot. It's good when faced with lots of small enemies, so you can drop three a turn (four when hasted).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

You might be thinking "But my guy is a SNIPER". Yes, that will always be plan A. But you need to think about what you will do when plan A doesn't work.


I realize you're not a fan of he option, OP, but I"m gonna second the Deadly Aim suggestion. Your to-hit bonus should be solid for hitting all but high-AC opponents, but don't you have a fighter to take down those guys? I mean, you're the sniper... snipers pick off key targets.. which would be enemy casters and support characters.

Best two ways I can think of to bring up the minimum and average damage of any ranged build is to boost your STR and get a compound bow or get Deadly Aim.

That or carry around Bane arrows for every possible target out there. : shrugs :


forgot the magic +1, yes.

IDK about poison, but I have Craft (Bowyer) as a racial class thing, and can make my own arrows. I haven't really looked into how that works, but it's definitely something I should look more on. any tips in this department would be great.

I have Gloves of Dexterity.

I have ranks in Use Magic Device, so that gives me some options. don't have much money though.

might pick up Focused Shot or Deadly Aim. not sure I'm willing to sacrifice any of my current feats/Rogue Talents though...

Rapid Shot is not a route I want to go down. at least not ATM.

thanks!

Liberty's Edge

rkraus2 wrote:
There are a few other equipment moves you can make. Have cold iron and silver arrows, so you don't ever do less damage because of DR. Adamantine too, if you can manage.

The Weapon Blanches from the APG work wonders here, as the "good for only one hit" is not really a restriction as far as ammunition is concerned. Note that the Pathfinder Society Field Guide introduced the Weapon Blanch : Ghost Salt which, while costly, will give your ammunition the "Ghost-Touch" property. Most useful as this is a magical melee weapon-only property in the CRB.

If you can get your GM to accept it (and if you are of Chelaxian descent), the Noble Scion (Narikopolus) will grant you an additional +2 to damage. You'd better buy some spare Composite Short Bows with lower STR ratings for when your character gets hit with STR damage though. The Big Game Hunter feat is also quite good if your GM okays it.

If you can get the Scent ability, a Pheromone Arrow will give you a +2 to attack and damage. It will also benefit your allies and their pets if they have Scent.

There is likely also some trait out there that can give you a trait bonus on damage.

BTW, for a Sniper, Reduce Person is just pure gold : +2 size bonus to DEX, +1 to to-hit and AC, an additional +4 size bonus to Stealth and your speed are not reduced. Be aware though that your arrow's damage will be reduced 1 step.

As far as spells are concerned, Gravity Bow might be worth it too, as well as Aspect of the Falcon, Venomous Bolt and Arrow Eruption. Check with your GM if he allows the latter to apply to the SA damage from the killing shot. Same caveat for Ricochet Shot (from UC). Named Bullet (also from UC) will be quite good too.


I'm not getting that trait. or most other traits. we don't really "just get" traits for free. and additionally, I have written my own class to tailor my traits already.

but I *am* getting spare composite bows. can't believe I didn't think of that. newbies, eh?

how do you "get" scent?

I'll nag my party members to be a spellcaster with Reduce Person, Cat's Grace and Gravity Bow, etc, haha.

thanks for the feedback.


oh right Cat's Grace etc doesn't stack with Gloves of Dexterity.


I think I'll go down the sap master route. seems nice, to put it nicely. with self-made arrows.


Gravity Bow is personal only, I think. and only rangers get it.

Also, traits are meant to be free. It is suggested to give every player 2 traits for free at character generation. But of course, the GM could always decide to give 0.

Scarab Sages

If you find a couple traits worth enough to you, you could always grab the additional traits feat :/

Liberty's Edge

Noble Scion is a feat, from the first campaign setting book IIRC.

You can gain Scent from some Druid Archetypes, some spells and likely some magic items out there.

Liberty's Edge

Cheapy wrote:
Gravity Bow is personal only, I think. and only rangers get it.

Use Magic Device ;-)

Shadow Lodge

The black raven wrote:


BTW, for a Sniper, Reduce Person is just pure gold : +2 size bonus to DEX, +1 to to-hit and AC, an additional +4 size bonus to Stealth and your speed are not reduced. Be aware though that your arrow's damage will be reduced 1 step.

and you take a -2 to strength


yeah, -2 damage (-1 Strbonus + -1 average from reduced arrow damage die) but +2 to hit, might be ok when you have a hard time hitting opponents AND you can apply it before combat, else it sucks.

Deadly Aim is simply a must have as it is far to good to pass up (up to the point of being cheesy).

Enchant your bow with sonic frosty acid flaming for +4 minimum damage.


Reduce Person + Deadly aim = +2 to attack, -2 to Damage for reduce, -2 to attack, +4 to damage for DA = +2 to damage. that solves your Hit problem with DA.

extra d6 elemental damage is nice.

VS 2 if you can get it.

Liberty's Edge

Greater Invisibility.

Every attack gets sneak attack.

Bonus to Stealth.

Downside: short duration.

Shadow Lodge

MicMan wrote:
yeah, -2 damage (-1 Strbonus + -1 average from reduced arrow damage die) but +2 to hit, might be ok when you have a hard time hitting opponents AND you can apply it before combat, else it sucks.

and unless you carry an extra bow with a lower strength rating for that -1 strength bonus you are getting -1 to hit, which ends up -2 damage for +1 hit UNLESS you carry an extra bow, not really worth it. you know who does like having reduce person cast on them? dex fighters with agile weapons, +2 to hit, average damage stays the same

Liberty's Edge

MicMan wrote:

yeah, -2 damage (-1 Strbonus + -1 average from reduced arrow damage die) but +2 to hit, might be ok when you have a hard time hitting opponents AND you can apply it before combat, else it sucks.

I think a Sniper might be interested by the net +5 to Stealth, though (+4 size and +1 DEX bonus).

Liberty's Edge

Your damage is always going to be insignificant with only one attack in a round. Given that a lvl 1 2h Fighter is going to be doing a minimum of 11 damage per round (12 if they take Vital Strike), the fact at lvl 8 you are doing less should pretty much tell you that as a sniper you must accept a very low damage output.
Luckily your max damage output is ok at 38 (42 with bleed) compared to a lvl 1 Fighter with a max of 27 (with vital strike). But again, as you can see, as he lvls up it won't be long before he has a bigger max damage.

Really you have to take Deadly Aim, you have no choice if you want to do some damage notable damage. With only 1 attack per round, even with -2 To Hit you should pretty much always hit, especially as opponents will also be flat footed.


Beg the wizard for greater invisibility spell, or greater invisibility scrolls. Then go rapid shot for multiple sneak attacks.


apparently some of you didn't catch this: I'm going with Sap Master. this gives me a lot more than 38 max dmg output.

my current dmg output looks like this:

1d6 + 1 (Seeking Composite Short Bow) + 2 (STR) + 1d6 (Vital Strike) + 4d6 (Sneak Attack) + 4d6 (Sap Master).

there is no Wizard among us. AFAIK there will be: me, Fighter, Inquisitor, Gunslinger, Monk and a Sorcerer. the Sorcerer will only be joining us for one session though. I have UMD at least.


You're using blunt arrows or something?


Craft (Bowyer) - bows & arrows. I can create my own blunt arrows.


forgot my +8 (Sap Adept).

anyway, played some today. only one encounter. but the other people did around ~60dmg and 5 attacks. I did ~140dmg with 3 attacks. DM is talking about house ruling something to make me suck. :-(

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