Hey all, I am finally getting a chance to play a Pathfinder paladin in an upcoming Kingmaker game with our group. Traditionally, I like the idea of a sword and board paladin, but I know that isn't the most optimal way to play one. Based on what I've read so far, I'd lean towards and TWF sword and board or mounted combat focus. I don't really know much about mounted combat, but I don't hate the idea, I guess, and what from what I can gather, Kingmaker allows you to play a medium race and still utilize your mount.
Tentatively, our group will contain a witch, a fighter/cleric, a monk and a sorcerer. We rolled up stats, and I got, as follows.
16
16
15
15
11
10
Again, preference leans towards a human, but if I knew exactly what to do, I wouldn't be asking you all for help. Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks, guys.
Kingmaker is arguably the best AP for a mounted fighting character, though there will still be plenty of places where your mount can't go.
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I am playing a mounted Paladin (human) in Kingmaker and loving it. Paladin works well in the Kingdom building phases as Cha is rather important; and this is arguably the best AP for mounted combat. When I am denied access to my horse I rely on the Paladin's base abilities. Heavy armor, Swift action lay on hands and a good dex and con have kept me up in nearly every fight (ironically the only fight I have been knocked unconscious in was when our Gnome Barbarian Critted me after an odd encounter). The roleplay aspect has been very good as well.
The only warnings I have are that my party is very much supportive of my paladin hood, not messing around in the open and when they have to do the dark grey area things they are kind enough to leave me in the dark when they do them. Also, I have been 50/50 on mounted combat so far (most of the way through book 2) so technically a sword and board or weapon focused paladin would use his bond ability a little more often. I am enjoying it though and I hope you will as well.
One thing I've seen a lot of contention over is the weapon. Mounted, obviously, you want a lance. Melee, however, I've seen a lot of lobbying for falcata and scimitar, in addition to some of the Eastern weapons added in UC.
While I do like the flavor of longsword since I will probably worship Iomedae, I'm not overly opposed to another weapon if it really is that much better. However, the biggest thing I see with the number cruches is that high crit modifier or high crit chance will come out in the long run. Personally, though, I've been playing for about three years and can count on one hand the number of times I've crit. Are those weapons really worth it?
Mathematically, they are slightly better. Slightly.
So, is a 5% increase in effectiveness worth using a weapon you've never heard of? Well, that's your call.
Me, I optimize for fun.
If one is going to go the mounted combat route (disclaimer, still not convinced it's what I want), is the Shining Knight archetype an option or a must have?
I remember when I first looked at the Pathfinder Paladin, I wondered why anyone would take the Divine Bond companion. Now, I look at the weapon bond and it seems to me it would only be really great at lower levels, sort of mellowing out a bit as your weapon gathers it's own abilities.
Also, I'm not sure if it will really affect an optimization build too much, but seeing as how this is Kingmaker, after all, I'm definitely planning on the Leadership feat at 7.
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If you are allowed the shinning knight it is not a must have but it is close. The biggie is that without it you have to take your Armor Check Penalty on Ride skills. That can be devastating at low levels. Or you will have to limit your armor for a while.
Something that I had noticed but not really thought much on was adding my Cha saves to my companion's saves. That has turned out to be even more important than removing ACP from ride checks has been.
I have not yet hit 7th level (I can see it from where I am) and I too will be taking Leadership. My feats are Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack, Spirited Charge (3rd lvl) and Saving Shield (5th lvl APG adds a couple of AC to an adjacent ally). The Spirited charge feat plus the Lance is a devastating attack. But it can be tricky to set up.
I use a longsword as my other weapon. If you have some other weapon that calls, go for it. But for the mounted it is hard to ignore the damage that the lance adds. Of course Strength is important there.
Another game I run has a paladin playing in it and we have noticed the standard action required to activate the bonded weapon can get difficult. The player has voiced his frustration that sometimes he has to make really difficult decisions involving the action economy that can be irksome. I suspect that the weapon bond is still slightly better than the animal bond, but mostly because the mount can be so difficult to use in many adventures.
I wouldn't shy away from using a mount and a lance even with a twf build. Especially with power attack, it's devastating. Even without spirited charge, you're still doubling your damage, which is devastating when you have the room. I tend to try and keep my characters versatile. most of my meleers can mount up, but I've never once built a mounted character.
as for the survivability of your mount, even if you shy away from the mounted bond, buying chainmail barding (or better) really adds a lot more survivability. Say you only use your mount 50% of the time. How many mages have you encountered in an open field? Your horse might die, but many would have you believe this will happen combat after combat. This is a farce.
Personally, I'd make sure you pick up power attack no matter your build. It really adds a lot. I'm also a big fan of the longsword, and one-handed weapons in general. I think that free hand is great, and you can switch to fighting with two hands whenever you like.
I'd look at the longsword and flail to pair with your shield, and a lance and barding no matter what you take. I'm a fan of the holy tactician archetype. granting your allies save bonuses, sheilded caster and/or outflank is awesome, and at level 10 UC has an amazing new teamwork feat. Syncronized charge? i may be wrong. with the meleers of the party all sporting a lance and granting each other charge actions, you'll make a deadly cavalry force.
I don't think I have any specific advice for kingmaker. only that i'd be sure to check with your gm just how often you'd be able to ride into combat. from what I understand, there's a lot of thick, forested area. While it's a nice step away from the cramped quarters of rise of the runelords, I've heard that it's reputation as the ap for mounted characters is somewhat undeserved.
It sounds like I won't gimp myself too much if I carry around a lance when it's useful, and longsword/shield when it gets a little cramped. If that's the case then this will be a lot easier than I thought. Between Leadership and Sacred Bond, I should be able to get a pretty OK mount to use, too, so I think I might go with animal bond instead of weapon.
Another thing to pose to you guys. Our DM has offered to treat Iomedaen Sword Oath like Longsword Specialization rather than just a prerequisite to it. Do those feats become viable if they lose their entrance fee, so to speak, or do you think the paladin's feats are still too tight for it?
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If the Dm offered me that feat, with the specialization add on, I would snap it up in a heart beat. If you are going to do mounted decide what your investment is before starting the character. If you are going to use the mounted bond then at least plan on investing in Ride and Handle Animal. (Handle animal you can let go once you have the bond but you'll need it until then)
Personally I would go all in and go for spirited charge (which I did and have enjoyed) as I said earlier, You don't get to do it all the time but when you bring the thunder make it as loud as you can. Something to note. I have not yet managed to use spirited charge and smite evil at the same time. One day I will and by the gods I bet you'll hear that roll of thunder and wonder what that was...;)
When it comes to mounted combat, you can't be effective at higher levels with out a special mount. Whether it is an Animal Companion or something else the DM provides, if you try to run with just "horse" it won't last. end of 3rd level begining of 4th you'll discover that they just can't take hits, even with armor they will get hit, hard and often. They need the HP's that only Animal Companions have. Also without hd they don't get feats, without feats they can not get medium or heavy armor proficiency, without that putting chainmail on is somewhat problematic. Now, if you are willing to just ignore their attacks and focus on your own you could maybe put the medium or heavy on them and ride them for the extra damage, but honestly you'll be spending a lot of money on mounts.