I have been very interested in playing a gun wielding caster ever since I heard about firearms. From what I can tell, there are two ways of going about this, with the Spellslinger archetype for Wizards and with a Gunslinger/arcane caster/Eldritch Knight build.
My queries are as follows:
1) What are the pros and cons of each?
2) Is there some way I have not thought of?
3) If going the EK route, which arcane class is best?
4) What are the pros and cons of rifle vs pistol?
Feel free to comment on anything that I might not have thought of. Thank you for your thoughts :)
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I'm actually playing a spellslinger who is going to pick up a level of fighter and then go EK, so there's that option as well.
You might also consider gunslinger/myrmidarch (magus), but I haven't really looked to see whether that's viable.
I think pistol has to win over musket because of the option to keep a hand free for casting all the time; some GMs will let you let go of your musket to cast, but some won't, so the hands-free option wins out. It also raises far fewer questions when using an arcane gun specifically...
If you want gunslinger/arcanist/EK, I'd have to say sorcerer, either a standard sorcerer with a mysterious stranger or a straight gunslinger with an empyreal sorcerer. Tying grit to casting stat seems like the winning combo to me.
I like the Spellslinger into EK idea, hadn't thought of that.
Something I just thought of, would the Arcane Blast feat be usable with Arcane Gun? I'm fairly lazy about spells (which is why I rarely play casters), and that would make things much simpler for me =P
The Myrmadarch isn't a bad option though it doesn't get full blastiness until 3rd level.
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I think pistol has to win over musket because of the option to keep a hand free for casting all the time; some GMs will let you let go of your musket to cast, but some won't, so the hands-free option wins out. It also raises far fewer questions when using an arcane gun specifically...
When you shoot your spells with your arcane gun you dont shoot bullets also. So its pretty much like holding any big object, like a quarterstaff for exemple. If some DMs are house ruling it different its fine but that interpretation is not supported nowhere in RAW.
Even on the archetype picture the iconic is holding a musket. Muskets are better because of the bigger range to make touch attacks but if your DM decides to be a hardass (or some role playing reasons on your campaing like pistols are way easier to hide) by all means, pick up a pistol.
2) Is there some way I have not thought of?
Three more that i can think of.
First:
Human, for the extra spells know.
Trait: Magical Knack, this is pretty much a must for all this builds.
Max out CHA, good DEX, ok CON, INT 11 and dump the other stats.
Lvl 1: Gunslinger mysterious stranger archetype.
Lvl 2: Spellslinger wizard archetype.
Lvl 3 and foward: Sorcerer crossblooded archetype build for blasting. I belive draconic, arcana, elemental and orc are good blaster bloodlines choices.
Second:
Spellslinger wizard archetype lvl 3 / cleric lvl 3 / Mystic theurge the rest. You can even dip a lvl in guslinger somewhere. Major problem here is that this guy is going to be MAD as hell.
OBS: On the Spellslinger archetype it is NOT specified that you can only use arcane spells on your arcane gun, the wording suggest quite the opposite. Getting the reach metamagic feat for been able to arcane shoot the cleric's touch debuff spells and HEALS can be very interesting for this guy. Need to check the cleric's spell list to see how viable is this build.
Third:
Rogue lvl 3 / Spellslinger wizard lvl 3 / Arcane Trickster the rest. Nothing like ranged sneak attacking with improved invisibility and critting x3 base spelldmg.
EDIT:
They really should have done an "Arcane Archer" with firearms PrC on UC. Luckly whoever wrote the Spellslinger archetype did a job so good it can actually function as a 1 lvl PrC for arcane spellcasters. Hell you could even build a firearm Bard dipping one lvl into it. Not the best spell list or progression for the job but who needs optimization when you can shot your enemys down with a shotgun while singing "Search and Destroy".
I just got an awesome image of a scaled guy with claws and wings kicking down a door and blasting away with a shotgun. New favorite idea.
The Arcane Trickster idea seems most excellent for a sniper type character.
Thank you for your thoughts.
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When you shoot your spells with your arcane gun you dont shoot bullets also. So its pretty much like holding any big object, like a quarterstaff for exemple. If some DMs are house ruling it different its fine but that interpretation is not supported nowhere in RAW.
I think pistol has to win over musket because of the option to keep a hand free for casting all the time; some GMs will let you let go of your musket to cast, but some won't, so the hands-free option wins out. It also raises far fewer questions when using an arcane gun specifically...
Well, except for the bit where it says you are casting the spell "through" your arcane gun. Sorry, man, but if you sit at my table, you are going to have to explain to me how you are casting through a musket while only holding it with one hand. It's not going to be an easy task.
(Also, if you're holding a quarterstaff in a way that lets you use it as a weapon, you're *also* not going to be casting anything with your free hand. It's a two-handed weapon, just like the musket.)
You can, in fact, cast through a musket according to the RAW - you're just limited to spells without a somatic component or that you've prepped with Still Spell. But without one of those two things, using a musket seems like a pretty bad plan for a spellslinger, awesome art notwithstanding.
The problem with that interpretation and calling it RAW is that you have to decide that casting a spell 'through' your arcane gun requires the same things as firing the weapon normally (obviously casting a ranged touch doesn't require reloading or a whole host of things) but it doesn't define this one way or the other.
So you really can't call that a RAW interpretation.
My opinion is that it is clear that the intent is to allow the archetype to use two-handed weapons. (they are mentioned in the ability).
In my game I would probably rule that the somatic components of the spell are completed while holding the gun. But I am not going to say that is RAW... it does look like RAI though, and RAW is unclear.
Sean Mahoney
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The problem with that interpretation and calling it RAW is that you have to decide that casting a spell 'through' your arcane gun requires the same things as firing the weapon normally (obviously casting a ranged touch doesn't require reloading or a whole host of things) but it doesn't define this one way or the other.
So you really can't call that a RAW interpretation.
My opinion is that it is clear that the intent is to allow the archetype to use two-handed weapons. (they are mentioned in the ability).
In my game I would probably rule that the somatic components of the spell are completed while holding the gun. But I am not going to say that is RAW... it does look like RAI though, and RAW is unclear.
Sean Mahoney
Reloading or not, I pretty much refuse to accept any interpretation of "through" that doesn't involve pointing the barrel of the musket at your target and/or intended origin point for the AoE. And pointing a musket one-handed just isn't going to fly with me.
Reloading or not, I pretty much refuse to accept any interpretation of "through" that doesn't involve pointing the barrel of the musket at your target and/or intended origin point for the AoE. And pointing a musket one-handed just isn't going to fly with me.
I do not see that Sean's interpretation disagrees with you. He said the somantic component is part of the act of the aiming and shooting...that would require both hands with a two handed weapon.
Unless I misinterpreted his post :P
Greg
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Reloading or not, I pretty much refuse to accept any interpretation of "through" that doesn't involve pointing the barrel of the musket at your target and/or intended origin point for the AoE. And pointing a musket one-handed just isn't going to fly with me.
I do not see that Sean's interpretation disagrees with you. He said the somantic component is part of the act of the aiming and shooting...that would require both hands with a two handed weapon.
Unless I misinterpreted his post :P
Greg
If that's his position - and it might be, I admit, and I even first started writing my response with that belief in mind - it's definitely a houserule, albeit one I would seriously consider using myself. There's certainly nothing in the RAW that says that's the case whatsoever.
I think it is definitely RAI. Otherwise, kinda lame to even offer the two handed guns to a spellslinger for casting spells through.
Oh ya'..you can use dis here gun fer castin' spells, butchya either gotta use spells wit out dem somantics or limit yer spells even more by usin' dat feat "still spell".
For myself, always would go one handed anyway. But I like the builds where you never even use the gun as a gun...its just for casting. So the range thing for rifles and such don't matter. (now, if I can only get that enervation crit going )
Greg
EDIT This and the being able to one level dip for all the benies for the class are two things I am anxiously awaiting FAQ's on. (The one level dip just seems so anti-PFRPG)
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EDIT This and the being able to one level dip for all the benies for the class are two things I am anxiously awaiting FAQ's on. (The one level dip just seems so anti-PFRPG)
I'd add to that list the mage bullets ability, because the way it's written I have no clue whether using mage bullets stacks with an already-enchanted gun, overrides the enchantments or interacts with it in some other fashion that Paizo might be making up just for the spellslingers...
As a separate question, does a spellslinger with a masterwork but not magical arcane gun get any benefit from casting a spell through the gun? The masterwork quality gives an enhancement bonus to attack - is that enough to give the bonus to the spell, or does it have to be a magical enhancement, either naturally or through the mage bullets abiliy?
Call the reloading motions for a musket their somatic components and be done with it.