A Wizard Who Fights

[Scion of the Wolf]

A lot of this has come from my previous post here but I've had no internet access and was looking for feedback on the two most recent builds I've worked up so I figured I'd just make a new post. The goal is to make a solid caster who's capable of contributing when the spells run out (or aren't an option).

The basics: Half-Orc race, stats in order are 16, 16, 16, 20, 14, 14, all stat boosts will go to INT and every favored class bonus in Wizard goes to hit points. His school of specialization would be Enhancement (Transmution sub-school) with Enchantment and Divination as prohibited. All weapon specific feats will be for Falchion.

First up is a pure wizard (Wiz20) with several combat feats peppered in. He won't have many attacks but Furious Focus will allow him to ignore the PA penalty and his lousy second attack at +1 seems to be a throw-away anyhoo. I also like that he's a full caster but armor will have to come from spells, rings, bracers and/or amulets. From the looks of it, this build seems more fun to me just because it's a little more...outside-the-box.

[1] Toughness[3] Imp. Initiative [5] Arcane Strike [5B] Fast Study [7] Imp. Familiar [9] Power Attack [10B] Furious Focus [11] Extend Spell [13] Quicken Spell [15] Weapon Focus [15B] Spell Penetration [17] Imp. Critical [19] Critical Focus [20B] Immortality

The second build (Ftr1/Wiz9/EK10) works toward the Eldritch Knight PrC, relying on it to make him more 'fightery'. Still Spell is used to eliminate somantic components for spells that need it to allow for armor use. I couldn't justify blowing two feats and a swift action for the Arcane Armor Training/Mastery feats. The Arcane Strike/Spell Critical issue is a bit troublesome so in the end I may not take the 10th EK level. I'm not a fan of him being 2 levels behind in spell level and spells known but he's definitely a butt-kicker.

[1] Toughness [1B] Imp. Initiative [3] Arcane Strike [5] Still Spell [5B] Fast Study [7] Power Attack [7B] Imp. Familiar [9] Spell Penetration [11] Quicken Spell [11B] Weapon Focus [13] Extend Spell [15] Imp. Critical [15B] Spell Perfection [17] Greater Spell Perfection [19] Critical Focus

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

[Silent Saturn]

I believe you're not allowed to choose Divination as an opposition school, on the grounds that Read Magic is divination and all wizards get that for free, which is why they're able to read spellbooks.

Other than that, I think as long as you're able to self-buff to make up for your BAB and low Hit Dice, you should be fine. Any thoughts on what kinds of spells you plan to learn? I'd recommend plenty of buffs, Summon Monster for a flanking buddy, and the standard wizard control spells to debuff anyone you plan to go toe-to-toe with.

[Helaman]

I just cant believe all the 50+pt builds we seem to see...

That said, if you want to be "fighty" go with the EK build

[Brambleman]

In PF you can have divination as opposition, and should be able to read spellbooks through use of spellcraft. If not, then it will cost double cantrip slot to prepare, and you may have to buy the spell yourself.

[Fing Mandragoran]

Scion of the Wolf wrote:

The basics: Half-Orc race, stats in order are 16, 16, 16, 20, 14, 14, all stat boosts will go to INT and every favored class bonus in Wizard goes to hit points. His school of specialization would be Enhancement (Transmution sub-school) with Enchantment and Divination as prohibited. All weapon specific feats will be for Falchion

Are your stats stuck or can you move them around?

With those numbers Id lower cha and raise str/con at the very least.

18, 16, 18, 20, 14, 10

Honestly, with those stats you could use a blind, one-handed, lame monkey and make a god character. But I second going the EK route or use those stats and make a Draconic Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple.

[STR Ranger]

Also if you want some more spell slots to make up for lost CASTER levels,
Go with Thassilonian Sin School (Greed=Transmutation) and get 2specialist slots per wiz level instead of one (can NEVER cast opposition schools though)

[Scion of the Wolf]

@Silent Saturn & Brambleman: I don't see anything in the core book that denies the choice of Divination as a opposed school. In regards to Read Magic, the book states:

PF Core Book wrote:

A wizard must study his spellbook each

day to prepare his spells. He cannot prepare any spell not
recorded in his spellbook, except for read magic, which all
wizards can prepare from memory.

So he doesn't have Read Magic in his spellbook but should still be able to prepare and cast it as needed. It's an interesting issue however, I will have to consult with the GM and get his opinion.

@helaman: Those stats are from a purely random roll (and probably the best I've ever had). The GM wanted to go point-buy, which I'm fine with, but got flack from other players. Oh well, I guess I benefit from it.

@Fing Mandragoran: The GM allows no swaps for prerolled stats.

@STR Ranger: Only Core, AP, UM and UC are allowed for this game so no goodies from the APs.

[leo1925]

The Thassilon magic is from the inner sea magic.

[Tinalles]

Dang, those stats are from a random roll? The dice deities were smiling on you, friend!

Any reason you're not doing a Magus? It's got a bigger hit die, high fort and will, 3/4 BAB, can cast spells in armor (including heavy armor eventually). The spell casting isn't quite as flexible, and you only get six levels of spells. But otherwise it seems pretty much tailor built for the fighting-arcane-caster niche.

If you're willing to stick to medium armor, you can even take Eldritch Knight to pump up the BAB a bit -- either a Magus 10/EK 10, or a Magus 12/EK 8 would be pretty kickass.

[Scion of the Wolf]

@Tinalles: We already have a Magus in the party or I'd likely go that route. At the moment, if I can be a wizard who can smack a fool in the face now and again then I'll be happy.

[Ussskip]

As broken as the Magus is I would get as many in the same party as I could.

[Tinalles]

Hmm, so it sounds like your emphasis is very much on caster, with combat as a secondary.

Eldritch Knight is your best bet, I think. Personally I'd go Wizard 9/Fighter 1/EK 10, so you'd wind up with a 3/4 BAB and 18 caster levels.

Alternatively, you could do the ranged thing -- say, Wizard 12/Arcane Archer 8. You'd wind up with CL 18 again, and 14/9/4 BAB, but you'd also get a boost to reflex saves and some nifty weapon-enhancing abilities.

If you can arrange to take the trait "Magical Knack" you'll get the two caster levels back -- not for spells-per-day, but at least for purposes of determining spell effects and attempts to penetrate SR.

[Scion of the Wolf]

@Tinalles: Sadly the GM isn't allowing Traits but I might be able to take the Additional Traits feat but then I'm out a precious feat.

[Silent Saturn]

Scion of the Wolf wrote:

@Tinalles: We already have a Magus in the party or I'd likely go that route. At the moment, if I can be a wizard who can smack a fool in the face now and again then I'll be happy.

For that route, I'd go with the pure Wizard build. I'd also consider splitting your accrued stat bonuses between STR and INT, to make sure you can put some power behind that falchion. In that way, you're not really taking anything away from your Wizard effectiveness, but you'd still have a mean way to get enemies out of your face.

The more I think about this, the more I think your spell selection is what's really going to make the difference. In addition to whatever spells you'd want in the line of wizardry, you'd need Bull's Strength, naturally, and True Strike wouldn't hurt either.

Also, sorry about the Divination confusion. Don't know where I saw that.

[STR Ranger]

Are you locked into arcane? With those stats you could make a damn good Oracle or Cleric. They're full casters and can fight,

Battle Cleric of Gorum with Rage subdomain would be cool

[Scion of the Wolf]

@Silent Saturn: I agree that the spells are whats going to make this work. Scrolls and wands will be the prime source for utility spells while spells that enhance combat effectiveness will be the ones memorized daily.

At Level 20 with a MW weapon, feats, max PA and Perfection of Self I'm looking at (if my math is right) +17/+11, 2d4+16 damage and 4d4+32 on a 15-20 critical range. That seems able to kick some butt if need be.

@STR Ranger: Yea I'm pretty keen on the wizard route but he would make an unstoppable cleric of just about anything. We've already got a cleric though and I'm trying not to step on anyone's shtick.

[Benicio Del Espada]

Have you considered a sorcerer with orc bloodline? They're kinda fun, and would be very different from the magus.

[Tinalles]

Hrrm. A pure wizard who can smack stuff occasionally.

Looking at your build, you've got this:

Enhancement (Transmution sub-school) with Enchantment and Divination as prohibited.

[1] Toughness
[3] Imp. Initiative
[5] Arcane Strike
[5B] Fast Study
[7] Imp. Familiar
[9] Power Attack
[10B] Furious Focus
[11] Extend Spell
[13] Quicken Spell
[15] Weapon Focus
[15B] Spell Penetration
[17] Imp. Critical
[19] Critical Focus
[20B] Immortality

Another possible path might be something like this:

Foresight (Divination sub-school) with Evocation and Enchantment as opposition schools. Note that you can still cast spells from your opposition schools if you have to, it just takes two spell slots per spell. If you're going to be in melee yourself, it makes sense to lose Evocation, since most of its spells are area effects. Enchantment is just not my own favorite, and I didn't want to ditch Illusion (which has some important buffs for a melee type, e.g. Blur).

This school gets you three things of interest to a melee wizard:

1) A massive bonus on Initiative (1/2 wizard level). This will let you get at least one spell in before combat really gets going, pretty much of the time.

2) The Prescience ability, which you can use essentially to make TWO attack rolls and take the better one.

3) The Foretell ability, which gives you and your allies (within 30 feet) a +2 bonus to basically everything, or a -2 penalty to enemies within 30 feet. And turning it on appears to be a free action.

Then, for feats:

[1] Toughness
[3] Extend Spell -- See notes
[5] Weapon Focus
[5B] Craft Magic Arms and Armor -- See notes
[7] Imp. Familiar
[9] Quicken Spell -- See notes
[10B] Selective Spell -- See notes
[11] Power Attack
[13] Furious Focus
[15] Spell Perfection -- See notes
[15B] Spell Penetration
[17] Improved Crit. -- But see notes
[19] Critical Focus
[20B] Immortality

Extend Spell is important for buffs of course. I'm inclined to think it's especially at low level when Mage Armor is going to be better than any gear you can get, so it's important to get it in early. Extended False Life will prove helpful all the way through.

Vital Strike is okay, BUT ... it forces you to spend a swift action to enhance your weapon, meaning you can't cast a quickened spell in the same round as a vital strike. And it only lasts one round. It does have the advantage that you'll never be without a magic weapon. But all in all, I'm inclined to think that Craft Magic Arms and Armor is a better investment, for two reasons: 1) you can make your own sword and keep its enhancement bonus maxed out, which gets you the same combat bonus without losing the swift action; 2) you can offer to help the other characters customize their gear. People like that (though GMs sometimes get antsy about it).

Quicken Spell is going to be awesome for you starting at level 9, when you can quicken TRUE STRIKE. Having one or two of those prepped will make it a LOT easier to hit stuff. A typical turn might go:

Prescience roll (free action)
Quickened True Strike (swift action)
Draw weapon and move into position (move action)
Attack (standard action)

And POW. Pretty much an auto-hit unless you roll a natural 1. BUT, you're prepared for that, because you used your Prescience ability to roll earlier, so you can take either your regular attack roll or your Prescience roll, whichever is better. Missing with this combo will require an opponent with insane AC, or rolling a natural 1 twice in a row. That happens, but not much.

Selective Spell -- because you're in melee, it will be advantageous to be able to cast area spells that don't hit you or your allies. I also picked this because you need at least three metamagic feats to qualify for ...

Spell Perfection, using True Strike as your spell. At level 15 you'll have a LOT of level 1 spell slots, and now you can prep Quickened True Strike into all of them if you so choose.

Improved Critical & Critical Focus -- Eh, if that's what floats your boat. I'm inclined to think that with Craft Magic Arms and Armor, you can add the Keen property to your weapon, call it good, and use those two feats for more wizardy stuff.

Craft Wondrous Item would be a good choice. If you go around poking monsters with sharp pointy things as an armor-less wizard, you're gonna need a lot of gear to survive their inevitable retribution. Cloak of Displacement for that 20% miss chance. Bracers of Armor +8, Ring of Protection +5, Amulet of Natural Armor +5.

If it bugs you not being able to cast Evocation spells normally, you could try Opposition Research (Ultimate Magic) which lets you treat one opposed school normally.

Note that with your initiative bonus, any time you win initiative you can do nifty things before everyone gets all mixed up. Using your Foresight ability for a +2 luck bonus to basically everything appears to be a free action, so you can do that AND cast another spell.

Anyway, there's my two cents on a straight-wizard melee type.

[Scion of the Wolf]

@Benicio Del Espado: Yes I'm sadly pretty stuck on being a wizard. :)

@Tinalles: WOW! First, thanks for making such a long and thoughtful post!

First to address the specialist school issue:

Foresight: By level 20 he gets +10 to initiative and is always assumed to have rolled a 20 on such checks, can make re-rolls at approx. 8-12 times a day (depending on gear/spells) and can grant either a +2 bonus to nearly everything to all allies within 30ft or a -2 to all foes within the same range.

Enhancement: By level 20 he gets +10 to a single stat for one round twenty times a day, +5 to two other stats which can be changed daily and +5 natural armor bonus that stacks with all other natural armor bonuses. Also remember that those bonuses affect saves and skills as well; this still makes me pretty partial to the Enhancement sub-school.

Let me take each feat you mention individually as well:

Extend Spell: Totally agree with this one but if he stays with the Enhancement school Imp. Initiative would be important.

Arcane Strike: I'm STILL very on the fence about this feat. I don't feel it scales well and the loss of a swift action for a paltry bonus doesn't seem to be an equitable trade.

Quicken Spell: Quicken spell rocks on toast. Even with the +4 slot cost, being able to cast two spells a round is mucho awesome.

Selective Spell: I'm kind of a bastard I guess but if my allies are too dumb to move when I throw a flaming ball of death then let them eat it. Then again using this with Anti-Magic Field (if allowed) could prove quite useful. This one is a possibility...

Spell Perfection: I've wanted a way to fit this into the build for it's obvious goodness. More to consider...

Imp. Critical & Critical Focus: I have to say, after looking over you other changes I rather agree with these being tossed.

Craft Magic Arms & Armor/Wondrous Items: I also likes these for him especially Craft Wondrous Items, since these are what he'll be wearing for armor bonuses.

Lets try this build:

[1] Toughness [3] Extend Spell [5] Fast Study [5B] Craft Wondrous Items [7] Imp. Familiar [9] Quicken Spell [10B] Selective Spell [11] Power Attack [13] Furious Focus [15] Spell Perfection [15B] Spell Penetration [17] Craft Magic Arms and Armor [19] Improved Critical OR Greater Spell Penetration [20B] Immortality

[Tinalles]

That looks good. If you choose DEX and INT as your two stats to enhance due to your school specialization, that'll get you more AC, higher Initiative, improved reflex saves, higher spell DCs, and theoretically more bonus spells.

Let us know how it works out!