After reading some of the posts here, I consider myself blessed to have the regular group I have. In the Sunday game I DM for, the players are split; 3 males, 3 females. Everyone at the table is suitably geeky in their own right, and all are in relationships, which those two factors cut out a lot of the inter-gender awkwardness many groups see; nobody feels the need to prove themselves, or assert their gender overly so in-game(or fend off overly hormonal geek virgins). We just play, and have a lot of fun doing so.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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To add a little something to the "tag-along" discussion:
My wife is not a gamer. On the other hand, she appreciates my gamer-ness and (unless she's tired or has things on her mind or whatever) will listen to me drone on endlessly about interesting spells that I just read for the first time or how such-and-such a character from a work of fiction would be represented in Pathfinder or news of the latest adjustment to the combat maneuver rules, etc.
She also has an interest in engaging me with my hobbies (just as I have an interest in engaging her with hers, in our case by watching her Jane Austen movies with her, among other things). As such, I've persuaded her to join me for PFS scenarios from time to time. She had me build her a non-spellcaster character (with the only specifications being that she's "cool" and uses a bow). During sessions, she doesn't do much play-acting (she's a bit shy with strangers and hasn't played enough sessions to know anyone very well) and needs a little help with understanding what she can accomplish in a given turn (I gave her Quick Draw just to simplify her turns - something I recommend for anyone in a similar situation). She's not really into Pathfinder for herself, so she's not going to read through the rules - she'll just learn her options at the table and leave it at that.
Strictly speaking, then, my wife fits a lot of the criteria for some of the negative views of female gamers - she's only there because I'm there, she didn't really build her own character, she hasn't put herself forward in either play acting or learning the rules...
...but she's not clingy, she doesn't seem to bother/disrupt other players, she gets no special treatment, etc.
So she fits the listed criteria of many of the negative things discussed in this thread, without actually exhibiting/producing any of those negative effects. I'm curious how that fits into the discussion at hand.
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So she fits the listed criteria of many of the negative things discussed in this thread, without actually exhibiting/producing any of those negative effects. I'm curious how that fits into the discussion at hand.
That this topic like so many dealing with people deals with generalizations and anecdotal experience however accurate or false they may be. your wife may be one of the infamous "outliers" or as we are dealing with small sample sizes (we are maybe just over 100 people mentioned in the thread so far) that what we assume has been normative are actually a skewed sample and consists mainly of the outliers and she is the norm.
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Strictly speaking, then, my wife fits a lot of the criteria for some of the negative views of female gamers - she's only there because I'm there, she didn't really build her own character, she hasn't put herself forward in either play acting or learning the rules......but she's not clingy, she doesn't seem to bother/disrupt other players, she gets no special treatment, etc.
So she fits the listed criteria of many of the negative things discussed in this thread, without actually exhibiting/producing any of those negative effects. I'm curious how that fits into the discussion at hand.
I think she fits in because (and as I was to one to start it, I am to blame) it's wrong to make generalizations. It's so hard not to use blanket terms, because it is what we are used to, but when we (and by we I mostly mean myself) fall into the same pitfall that I railed against, which was different treatment because of a preconceived notion of how someone is like due to gender (or whatever).
You know, in my anger from the last game (it was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back) I lashed out in a rant, that where as it did hold truth, it was a broad generalization. Heck, I've honestly been unfair in my portrayal of my gaming partners, because I've only brought up their negative traits but never mentioned the positive, which obviously if I've played with them for five years there has to be some reason why I stuck around. However, that doesn't mean the negative isn't there and shouldn't be addressed, but I should take a moment out to apologize for a lot of generalizations that I've made that aren't fair and honestly make me a bit of a hypocrite if I do stick by them.
In short, I think people are just people. Some are just jerks, and sometimes you run into them more which puts you off. Others may be good guys/girls who sometimes derp it up and slide into jerk tendencies. We can't attribute a standard trait to a set of people, because people are just too varied to fairly do so. Not every nerd guy is an antisocial, awkward freak show with women and not every woman is a vapid, just there to please a man, player.
Honestly, I'm glad I started this thread, because it's given me a lot of time to reflect on my fellow players and my own undesirable habits that I do as well. That doesn't mean that the one player's behavior towards me shouldn't be addressed, he was a jerk for that, but maybe he has issues outside the game that I should learn about as a friend first. But addressing the other players with my grievances (I've had time to talk to them) saw a noticeable change in attitude last night (we played one of our two weekly games) and it was great. Even the problem player was better, though I'm sure he has stumbled across this post, or was talked to, doesn't mean I won't talk with him later. So, either way, progress is being made on sides of the gaming table.
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thejeff:
The audience at the ballet is majority-female; in particular, I'm one of the youngest men present. As for baby names, I'm involved online discussing names with mothers. The forum is about 90%+ female.
Jiggy:
I imagine that as long as there isn't the clinginess, there isn't the problem. My wife is also a non-gamer, and I've offered to show her the game, she loves the art of the books, and she loves fantasy. But she won't show up to any games. In the case of your wife, she attends the game with the full expectation of partaking--she might not be particularly interested, but her efforts are in being a participant, and not as a cover for trying to keep your attention. Similarly, I'm assuming you're not making commentary or trying to be amorous while watching Jane Austen. That would be the same bad tagalong.
Glad to hear things are improving, kitty!
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I remember when Girl Gamers attempted to join the D&D group I was apart of. One of the Players started to make un acceptable comments which ultimatly broke the group. As i recall there was a hole in the wall where the idea was to look through and spot the goblins on the other side...He declared his Warrior was inserting his primary sexual organ in the hole. The girls went to the other group and his disruptive and lewd behaviour continued to be a problem. Because the DM at the time was his friend the group broke.
Ballet isn't really a traditionally female activity, is it? At least watching?
*consults the man chart*
Yeah. Its girly. Its right between shoe shopping and getting stuck holding someone's purse outside a store in the mall.
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Ballet isn't really a traditionally female activity, is it? At least watching?*consults the man chart*
Yeah. Its girly. Its right between shoe shopping and getting stuck holding someone's purse outside a store in the mall.
Footballers were doing it to strenghten their Ankles and tone their musculature. In what way is that (essetiially a martial art protoform) not manly?
Sociologically speaking, we still see more women following their boyfriend to their activities than the other way around. Not a lot of guys go to their GF's knitting club (and I'm sure that if they did they wouldn't be much 'committed' to that either), but the "girl watching her boyfriend play" is a frequent thing in North America, which has more to do with culture than whether women can enjoy RPG (and the crunchy rules of) or not.
It's slowly getting better, but the 1950s ideal of "boys play/work and women watch" is still strong, and so is the culturally impregnated reflex of "guys need to explain the game to the girl", which ties in with the OP.
I agree with this position with a couple of caveats. One is that the 'clingy' male is far less likely to actually go to the knitting club and be bored. Instead he'll try something in order to get her to not go.
The other caveat is your statement that things are improving. In what way do you see them as improving? I think it may be the case that slightly and more in that she know has a career and getting work done while he goes out to play is one way to try and stay on top of all the things she has going on in her life. I do think she may also feel more empowered to just go off and do her own thing. On the other hand I only very slightly see a reverse example of him going to watch her play. The only case I am personally aware of where we see a lot of that is in Roller Derby where if your GF/Wife is a Derby Girl then you'll go and watch her play. This however is a pretty extreme outlier - guys tend to like blood sports any way. I suppose you get the same thing if she is running a marathon or some such as well and the fact that more woman are doing things like running marathons pushes this up somewhat but still pretty uncommon.
Thus I think the only way that its significantly getting better is mainly that she is a little more willing to do her own thing instead of going to watch him play. Further I think it would really take some pretty significant cultural shifts before he is going to show up to hang out with her at the knitting group. I see nothing like movement along those lines.
Footballers were doing it to strenghten their Ankles and tone their musculature. In what way is that (essetiially a martial art protoform) not manly?
Was it something they could brag to the other teams about or was it a deep dark secret that they would rather swallow a porcupine than reveal?
I remember when Girl Gamers attempted to join the D&D group I was apart of. One of the Players started to make unacceptable comments which ultimately broke the group. As i recall there was a hole in the wall where the idea was to look through and spot the goblins on the other side...He declared his Warrior was inserting his primary sexual organ in the hole. The girls went to the other group and his disruptive and lewd behavior continued to be a problem. Because the DM at the time was his friend the group broke.
The old hole in the wall trick. The DM should have remembered the scene from the original porky's movie and had a goblin on the other side of the wall grapple the poor fighter.
that would have stopped the offensive behavior and given the girls a hearty laugh.
Men can knit. I wish I could do some fiber art but I never learned. As for men explain while the girl listens...Having an older sister it was interesting to notice that men seem to 'enjoy' explaining things to women. Oddly most of the complaints are not about male players being overly helpful if condescending to the ladies, but downright creepy behaviors. I've witnessed two pervy players in my time. One dude couldn't focus if there was a woman in the same room (and I mean it was a big big study lounge).
I remember when Girl Gamers attempted to join the D&D group I was apart of. One of the Players started to make unacceptable comments which ultimately broke the group. As i recall there was a hole in the wall where the idea was to look through and spot the goblins on the other side...He declared his Warrior was inserting his primary sexual organ in the hole. The girls went to the other group and his disruptive and lewd behavior continued to be a problem. Because the DM at the time was his friend the group broke.The old hole in the wall trick. The DM should have remembered the scene from the original porky's movie and had a goblin on the other side of the wall grapple the poor fighter.
that would have stopped the offensive behavior and given the girls a hearty laugh.
I am thinking more called shot with a longsword. Or alignment change since the wall did not consent.
Footballers were doing it to strenghten their Ankles and tone their musculature. In what way is that (essetiially a martial art protoform) not manly?Was it something they could brag to the other teams about or was it a deep dark secret that they would rather swallow a porcupine than reveal?
Umm Lynn Swann was very vocal about how Ballet took him and the Steelers to so many playoffs/Superbowls in the 70's. So, no, not really hidden.
I am thinking more called shot with a longsword. Or alignment change since the wall did not consent.I remember when Girl Gamers attempted to join the D&D group I was apart of. One of the Players started to make unacceptable comments which ultimately broke the group. As i recall there was a hole in the wall where the idea was to look through and spot the goblins on the other side...He declared his Warrior was inserting his primary sexual organ in the hole. The girls went to the other group and his disruptive and lewd behavior continued to be a problem. Because the DM at the time was his friend the group broke.The old hole in the wall trick. The DM should have remembered the scene from the original porky's movie and had a goblin on the other side of the wall grapple the poor fighter.
that would have stopped the offensive behavior and given the girls a hearty laugh.
Chalk me up as one more GM who would have done something VERY bad to this player in retaliation.
Chalk me up as one more GM who would have done something VERY bad to this player in retaliation.I am thinking more called shot with a longsword. Or alignment change since the wall did not consent.I remember when Girl Gamers attempted to join the D&D group I was apart of. One of the Players started to make unacceptable comments which ultimately broke the group. As i recall there was a hole in the wall where the idea was to look through and spot the goblins on the other side...He declared his Warrior was inserting his primary sexual organ in the hole. The girls went to the other group and his disruptive and lewd behavior continued to be a problem. Because the DM at the time was his friend the group broke.The old hole in the wall trick. The DM should have remembered the scene from the original porky's movie and had a goblin on the other side of the wall grapple the poor fighter.
that would have stopped the offensive behavior and given the girls a hearty laugh.
I am quite convinced that goblins collect various trophies stolen, taken, etc. And they steal anything that is not fixed permanently or that can be cut off...
Chalk me up as one more GM who would have done something VERY bad to this player in retaliation.I am thinking more called shot with a longsword. Or alignment change since the wall did not consent.I remember when Girl Gamers attempted to join the D&D group I was apart of. One of the Players started to make unacceptable comments which ultimately broke the group. As i recall there was a hole in the wall where the idea was to look through and spot the goblins on the other side...He declared his Warrior was inserting his primary sexual organ in the hole. The girls went to the other group and his disruptive and lewd behavior continued to be a problem. Because the DM at the time was his friend the group broke.The old hole in the wall trick. The DM should have remembered the scene from the original porky's movie and had a goblin on the other side of the wall grapple the poor fighter.
that would have stopped the offensive behavior and given the girls a hearty laugh.
I had a player that used to hit on the barmaid in every tavern of every town the party went to... It sucked up time and was very boring for the rest of the players. So I had a chat and asked him to stop...
He didnt, so finally I had a barmaid say yes and take him up stairs. To make the long story short The barmaid was a succubus she stole his soul and sold it to Mephistopheles.
It gave me a level of control over his character, allowed me to stop him being a jerk to the other players, if what ever he was doing contravened Mephisto's plans he would be in a world of pain and I could simply possess his character when needed.
When he complained - I said it was a fantasy world where not everything was what it seemed and if he was going to waste game time with his constant and boring tavern escapades and hog the limelite tring to hit on a barmaid for the 100th time while the party were trying to meet contacts, find information, or even assassinate a target. Not every woman that his character was attempting to hit on would be what she seemed.
He agreed to tone down his attitude and the party went on a quest to get his characters soul back.
Chalk me up as one more GM who would have done something VERY bad to this player in retaliation.I am thinking more called shot with a longsword. Or alignment change since the wall did not consent.I remember when Girl Gamers attempted to join the D&D group I was apart of. One of the Players started to make unacceptable comments which ultimately broke the group. As i recall there was a hole in the wall where the idea was to look through and spot the goblins on the other side...He declared his Warrior was inserting his primary sexual organ in the hole. The girls went to the other group and his disruptive and lewd behavior continued to be a problem. Because the DM at the time was his friend the group broke.The old hole in the wall trick. The DM should have remembered the scene from the original porky's movie and had a goblin on the other side of the wall grapple the poor fighter.
that would have stopped the offensive behavior and given the girls a hearty laugh.
I had a player that used to hit on the barmaid in every tavern of every town the party went to... It sucked up time and was very boring for the rest of the players. So I had a chat and asked him to stop...
He didnt, so finally I had a barmaid say yes and take him up stairs. To make the long story short The barmaid was a succubus she stole his soul and sold it to Mephistopheles.
It gave me a level of control over his character, allowed me to stop him being a jerk to the other players, if what ever he was doing contravened Mephisto's plans he would be in a world of pain and I could simply possess his character when needed.
When he complained - I said it was a fantasy world where not everything was what it seemed and if he was going to waste game time with his constant and boring tavern escapades and hog the limelite tring to hit on a barmaid for the 100th time while the party were trying to meet...
I think that is a problem. A nicer way to maybe scare the him is to have a bard singing a horror story about that happening could give the players a hint to knock it off.
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Footballers were doing it to strenghten their Ankles and tone their musculature. In what way is that (essetiially a martial art protoform) not manly?Was it something they could brag to the other teams about or was it a deep dark secret that they would rather swallow a porcupine than reveal?
Yes. As I recall the Whole Team went and did exercises and Ballet Training.
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I remember when Girl Gamers attempted to join the D&D group I was apart of. One of the Players started to make unacceptable comments which ultimately broke the group. As i recall there was a hole in the wall where the idea was to look through and spot the goblins on the other side...He declared his Warrior was inserting his primary sexual organ in the hole. The girls went to the other group and his disruptive and lewd behavior continued to be a problem. Because the DM at the time was his friend the group broke.The old hole in the wall trick. The DM should have remembered the scene from the original porky's movie and had a goblin on the other side of the wall grapple the poor fighter.
that would have stopped the offensive behavior and given the girls a hearty laugh.
Actually We were under age kids (14-16) at the time and were not of the minimum 18 Age required to see the R Rated Porkys movie. He was just a disruptive idiot.
Yes. As I recall the Whole Team went and did exercises and Ballet Training.
And got teased for it. Hard.
The equivocation here is astounding. Ballerina is seen as a girly activity. I'm trying to think of something with a less macho reputation short of giving birth and I'm coming up with nothing.
It doesn't matter if it makes your hair grow yellow and let you kick moons out of orbit: its the PERCEPTION that matters.
I think that is a problem. A nicer way to maybe scare the him is to have a bard singing a horror story about that happening could give the players a hint to knock it off.
Why? He was warned nicely and repeatedly, the other players had all asked him to stop. None of us wanted to kick him out of the game as other than his need for his character to hit on every female NPC in the game and bog it down, his contribution to the table was a good one.
I constructed a story arc to make him aware that it was a dangers world they were in and that there were consequences for his actions.
When he started to act in a way that was more befiting his age then I used the quest to get his characters soul back to help mend the fences between him and the other players.
They had a ton of fun and those characters/players and the adventure is talked about as one of their favourites...
Dont get me wrong I am not adverse to romance between Characters and NPCs and I understand - that people playing big lusty Barbarians want to do the things big lusty barbarians do when in taverns - but when it makes the game unfun for the rest of the players and the person doing it wont stop... then as referee of the game I have to work out a solution and I am lucky the above worked.
I think that is a problem. A nicer way to maybe scare the him is to have a bard singing a horror story about that happening could give the players a hint to knock it off.
Why? He was warned nicely and repeatedly, the other players had all asked him to stop. None of us wanted to kick him out of the game as other than his need for his character to hit on every female NPC in the game and bog it down, his contribution to the table was a good one.
I constructed a story arc to make him aware that it was a dangers world they were in and that there were consequences for his actions.
When he started to act in a way that was more befitting his age then I used the quest to get his characters soul back to help mend the fences between him and the other players.
They had a ton of fun and those characters/players and the adventure is talked about as one of their favorites...
Don't get me wrong I am not adverse to romance between Characters and NPCs and I understand - that people playing big lusty Barbarians want to do the things big lusty barbarians do when in taverns - but when it makes the game unfun for the rest of the players and the person doing it wont stop... then as referee of the game I have to work out a solution and I am lucky the above worked.
Your solution was a good IMO. I think I would have gotten a little less creative and just start having the tavern wenches become tavern boys. Maybe the inn keeper and his family run the place and all he has are sons while his wife and daughters are in the kitchen. Maybe there is a town ordinance against women working past sunset or something for their own safety. In short the lusty barbarian would have had to deal with a all male world until he calmed down( I.E. when you were ready to deal with his role playing desire.)
Another funny would have been for a lady of rank to use him the way he used women, He couldn't risk offending her because she is a knight/baroness/countess whatever but he could be her "pet" project to civilize him into a respectable man complete with powdered wig and hose and the most tasteful of cod pieces. She could even have the perfect person in mind to teach him all the things a civilized man should know rather than being some bare chested savage. You could make her life 80 or so or make her really offensive to the eye and ears basically give him back what he's been giving and see how he likes it.These ideas are just in case he back slides or in case you meet someone else like his character again. It sounds like you found the perfect solution for your problem though.
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To the OP and any other female gamer:
I'm sorry you've had a lousy time in your gaming group. If you are ever in Abilene, let me know; I have a spot at the table. But know you this:
1. I will not hold back just cause you have boobs (Im married and I have guys here with boobs.)
2. Bring your A game to the table, cause Im bringing mine.
3. If you have a complaint, Im ready to hear it. But not in during combat. We can take a break and discuss it. Whiners (of any gender) are often ignored.
4. The dice dont care about gender, so neither do I.
5. I have no problem TPK'ing the whole group when its needed. That includes you.
6. If you want to have the same AC as the fighter in plate mail, you better have the spells or suit up in some plate yourself. I dont do chain mail bikinis.
7. When I think of anyone who wants to be taken seriously, they should play a character seriously. In the past, I've played in a Super's campaign. Earth saving Avenger/JLA types. We all had epic potential heros, except for the girl who wanted to play a 'The Shoveler' knock off. Yeah... She didnt help the cause. But I've gamed with other girls/women so I know that a bad gamer is not gender specific.
When joining a social group, you are in the minority, and are expected to conform to their behaviors.
I have seen horrible behavior from both genders. I call people out on it when it's directed at me. I expect people to call jerkwads out on it when it's directed at them.
I'm clearly a sexist, because I expect women to do this for themselves. Jess Door gave a good example of how to run this conflict on the first page of the thread.
Yes, you do have to stick up for yourself, and no you can't expect the pack ape dynamic to make the problem go away on its own.
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Ive seen two types of gamer girls.
1.Real gamer girls. 5%
2.Girls who want attention from what they perceive are sex starved nerds who they want to tease to the point of mindless frustration and being the focus of a group of guys that they never intend on being involved with romantically, opting instead for a guy with tats and piercings thats never heard of RPG's and who's only game is a copy of MADDEN for his PS3. They borrow their little brother's copy of halo, and play long enough to get 5-10 gamer points and quit or they join some games at a local comic book store and they sit through a few sessions long enough to get the attention they want and ride the coat tails of someone else's hobby to look cool and different via informing everyone of their DND exploits via FACEBOOK. 95%
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Ive seen two types of gamer girls.
1.Real gamer girls. 5%
2.Girls who want attention from what they perceive are sex starved nerds who they want to tease to the point of mindless frustration and being the focus of a group of guys that they never intend on being involved with romantically, opting instead for a guy with tats and piercings thats never heard of RPG's and who's only game is a copy of MADDEN for his PS3. They borrow their little brother's copy of halo, and play long enough to get 5-10 gamer points and quit or they join some games at a local comic book store and they sit through a few sessions long enough to get the attention they want and ride the coat tails of someone else's hobby to look cool and different via informing everyone of their DND exploits via FACEBOOK. 95%
That sucks. Even the women I know that got into gaming because of a significant other ended up enjoying the game for itself and were real assets to the group.
You need to find higher quality gamer girls!
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Ive seen two types of gamer girls.
1.Real gamer girls. 5%
2.Girls who want attention from what they perceive are sex starved nerds who they want to tease to the point of mindless frustration and being the focus of a group of guys that they never intend on being involved with romantically, opting instead for a guy with tats and piercings thats never heard of RPG's and who's only game is a copy of MADDEN for his PS3. They borrow their little brother's copy of halo, and play long enough to get 5-10 gamer points and quit or they join some games at a local comic book store and they sit through a few sessions long enough to get the attention they want and ride the coat tails of someone else's hobby to look cool and different via informing everyone of their DND exploits via FACEBOOK. 95%
I guess I am the 5%. As I have been gaming sine 79, I got involved because I loved Tolkien and Sword of Shannara and a guy I had a class with in H.S. explained it to me and I asked to play. He said get this book and we will see. So I did and the next day I taught a young boy I babysat and it was game all the time from there.
The young boy I babysat and taught how to play and I are still friends (not close) and we both still game (Not together, as he plays 4.0 and I play Pathfinder and getting him to commit to every other week to play is impossible)
I never had a thought of flirting or being with anyone I gamed with until recently (5 years ago) when I meet my BF he found out I gamed and wanted to play to. So he and I know play in a group every other Saturday.
So yeah, you need to find better girl gamers or not take it personal that they are just bimbo's not worth time and effort.
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I would imagine age has something to do with it. I have seen more problem gamers male and female of varies types in there teens or early twenties. Not saying all of them are of course. But I have seen more especially of the girls who are not really there for gaming. Seems the older people get the less true that is. Least that has been my experience.
Which makes me curious Honey Cat. How old is the group and people you game with are?
Ive seen two types of gamer girls.
1.Real gamer girls. 5%
2.Girls who want attention from what they perceive are sex starved nerds who they want to tease to the point of mindless frustration and being the focus of a group of guys that they never intend on being involved with romantically, opting instead for a guy with tats and piercings thats never heard of RPG's and who's only game is a copy of MADDEN for his PS3. They borrow their little brother's copy of halo, and play long enough to get 5-10 gamer points and quit or they join some games at a local comic book store and they sit through a few sessions long enough to get the attention they want and ride the coat tails of someone else's hobby to look cool and different via informing everyone of their DND exploits via FACEBOOK. 95%
Not sure if serious...
But to echo the others I don't know where you are on the globe; I have yet to see #2 even at Vampire LARP's I have seen folks who come because of interest in another participant but either it clicks for them and they play or it becomes "that thing you do, that I am not interested in." and they are out.
I am have yet to encounter this personally. The only people I know who have are my wife and my friend, both of whom swear that a woman wearing a corset in a larp are about to wrap the judge around their little finger.
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You game with Honey Cat? :)
I guess I am the 5%.
Not that I know of. Never heard that name before until they posted.
I am just saying I am a gamer girl. I have no interest in flirting with the people I game with. While I MAY RP flirting, and someone cannot figure that out as a female being a female character to a male character not the player, then some guy needs to get a life and figure out which is which. but anyone with half a brain can figure that out.
My interest is in the RP and the game, the action the thrill of victory, the agony of Da'feet... (defeat)
Not that I know of. Never heard that name beforeYou game with Honey Cat? :)
I guess I am the 5%.
I think that was a jab at your (seemingly) acceptance of the 5%-95% proportion (the 5% he played with), with which I disagree btw, or at least is far from what I observed around here.
'findel
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A gamer girl got me into D&D. Half of my current group is female, and my girlfriend is a bigger gamer geek than I am (and when someone who freelances RPG stuff says that, you know it's saying something, hehe).
:D
Ive seen two types of gamer girls.
1.Real gamer girls. 5%
2.Girls who want attention from what they perceive are sex starved nerds who they want to tease to the point of mindless frustration and being the focus of a group of guys that they never intend on being involved with romantically, opting instead for a guy with tats and piercings thats never heard of RPG's and who's only game is a copy of MADDEN for his PS3. They borrow their little brother's copy of halo, and play long enough to get 5-10 gamer points and quit or they join some games at a local comic book store and they sit through a few sessions long enough to get the attention they want and ride the coat tails of someone else's hobby to look cool and different via informing everyone of their DND exploits via FACEBOOK. 95%
Not sure if serious...
But to echo the others I don't know where you are on the globe; I have yet to see #2 even at Vampire LARP's I have seen folks who come because of interest in another participant but either it clicks for them and they play or it becomes "that thing you do, that I am not interested in." and they are out.
I'm going to echo Honey Cat and say that yes, I have seen that #2 girl "gamer"(I use the term loosely) before. But, this girl was a psychotic, schizophrenic attention wh*re in the first place, so this was almost expected. But yeah, she used our gaming as a means of getting attention. Always talked about how great gaming is, always eluded to wanting to play, but on game night she refused to participate, but sit near the table distracting the other male gamers and generally making a spectacle of herself.
On several occasions we had to tell her to leave, because she really did nothing but purposely distract players and interrupt the game(having players give her foot rubs, turn the tv on and crank the volume up, talk loudly over the DM, etc). It gets worse, but not sure if this is the place to talk about it.
So, I'm agreeing with Honey Cat here. They exist.
I would imagine age has something to do with it. I have seen more problem gamers male and female of varies types in there teens or early twenties. Not saying all of them are of course. But I have seen more especially of the girls who are not really there for gaming. Seems the older people get the less true that is. Least that has been my experience.
Which makes me curious Honey Cat. How old is the group and people you game with are?
I've seen something similar but not with those percentages at all and age did influence things.
Essentially what I have seen was a female who is interested in one of the males in the game group...but he has not yet expressed any interest in her. This leads to her plotting to be around him in any kind of social setting until he finally notices she likes him and asks her out.
Since the rest of the group are just as clueless we ended up figuring this out only in retrospect.
I suspect adults are just to damn busy with 101 things to devise crazy elaborate schemes to catch the eye of their crush.
While girl #2 exists, I think they're far rarer than 95%. Sounds like Honey Cat had a lousy experience, which I'm sorry to hear, but I don't think those girls are in the majority.
Or at least, largely, they don't stick around for long.
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I would imagine age has something to do with it. I have seen more problem gamers male and female of varies types in there teens or early twenties. Not saying all of them are of course. But I have seen more especially of the girls who are not really there for gaming. Seems the older people get the less true that is. Least that has been my experience.
Which makes me curious Honey Cat. How old is the group and people you game with are?
I've seen something similar but not with those percentages at all and age did influence things.
Essentially what I have seen was a female who is interested in one of the males in the game group...but he has not yet expressed any interest in her. This leads to her plotting to be around him in any kind of social setting until he finally notices she likes him and asks her out.
Since the rest of the group are just as clueless we ended up figuring this out only in retrospect.
I suspect adults are just to damn busy with 101 things to devise crazy elaborate schemes to catch the eye of their crush.
Oh yeah I agree the numbers in my own personal experience has not been that bad ever. I was just starting to wonder if she was fairly young, since I seen it a lot more often when I was in HS than I have since.
But seriously, Where is my sandwich?
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But seriously, Where is my sandwich?
I thought you had it on your Pan-Am cart along with the tea?
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Food for thought here.
Until about three years ago I thought girl gamers were urban legends, passed down from player to player throughout the ages. But having met and gamed with a few now, I reckon more should done to encourage these 'statistical anomalies'.
Typically gaming can be be very much a thing to do with the guys. Which lets face it, the sausage fest gets old at times. Too many testosterone fueled egos and cliches at the table. It can be intimidating or downright annoying to any new player. Don't think that gender should have anything to do with it. But if it does, then we maybe all need to grow up a little and be more aware of how to encourage female gamers.
That said, I'm told I'm an impartial and wrathful GM. Smiting with impunity (always wanted to use that word in a sentence). Pit traps and falling boulders don't tend to be sexist.
Ive seen two types of gamer girls.
1.Real gamer girls. 5%
2.Girls who want attention from what they perceive are sex starved nerds who they want to tease to the point of mindless frustration and being the focus of a group of guys that they never intend on being involved with romantically, opting instead for a guy with tats and piercings thats never heard of RPG's and who's only game is a copy of MADDEN for his PS3. They borrow their little brother's copy of halo, and play long enough to get 5-10 gamer points and quit or they join some games at a local comic book store and they sit through a few sessions long enough to get the attention they want and ride the coat tails of someone else's hobby to look cool and different via informing everyone of their DND exploits via FACEBOOK. 95%
Sounds to me like you're venting over a single individual's behavior. Sorry, hard to take your "real" to "non-real" gamer girl ratio seriously.
I'm sorry this thread keeps coming up. Everybody is heaping their negative feelings and much generalization onto it.
For my part, I have posted what I see and experience first hand, and it involves only a smidgen of bad behavior and only the tiniest reflection of what the OP listed as bad male behavior (since that is as much as I have seen).
I'll just sum up my experience one more time, for whatever it's worth. I have three ladies in my group. All of them played on one level or another before I met them. One has been playing almost as long as I have (I've been playing for 31 years). Only one guy in my group had to adjust to the "change" when they began to come on (he hadn't played in a group with a woman before), and he was closely watched and spanked thoroughly by the rest of us when he acted poorly. He doesn't act poorly anymore.
I have had two previous girlfriends who played. Nobody treated them any differently. In one group with one of those girls, there were two other girls at the table, who also were there because they wanted to be (no boyfriends). This was from the '80s. So there were three girl gamers I gamed with in the '80s who got as much respect as anybody else at the table.
My fave FLGS is owned by a woman, and managed by a transgender. They both get tremendous respect. There is a woman on staff there. She sometimes does get hit on by certain, non-very-well-adjusted fellows who otherwise do not have much contact with females. I am sure this is partly because she is somebody they feel safe speaking to, as she has much in common with them. However, it is nothing she cannot handle. The other staff treat her with respect (as the majority of customers do). She runs three games, and yes, the men in her groups respect her decisions.
I haunt three game stores in my area. Women do come in with their boyfriends sometimes. Yes, some girls game to be social with the friends of their significant others. Some girls come in on their own. Sometimes guys look at them. Just like guys look at girls at the supermarket, or in Best Buy, or while walking down the street. Sometimes guys are dicks to them. Just like guys can be dicks at the supermarket, or in Best Buy, or while walking down the street.
But seriously, Where is my sandwich?I thought you had it on your Pan-Am cart along with the tea?
True, but sandwiches other people make are always better. It's the reason I steal food off my husbands plate even if I'm eating the same thing.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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It's the reason I steal food off my husbands plate even if I'm eating the same thing.
I know! Sometimes my wife will go to hand me some morsel or other, and instead of taking it I bite it. She points out that she intended to hand it to me and I tell her it tastes better this way. :D
It's the reason I steal food off my husbands plate even if I'm eating the same thing.I know! Sometimes my wife will go to hand me some morsel or other, and instead of taking it I bite it. She points out that she intended to hand it to me and I tell her it tastes better this way. :D
If you can get the food without them knowing it tastes even better!
If you can get the food without them knowing it tastes even better!It's the reason I steal food off my husbands plate even if I'm eating the same thing.I know! Sometimes my wife will go to hand me some morsel or other, and instead of taking it I bite it. She points out that she intended to hand it to me and I tell her it tastes better this way. :D
This is true. Although after catching my wife grabbing some fries off my tray and telling me "I pick off stragglers"
Picking off straggler food from someones plate, tray, hand, or bag is the most satisfying!
If you can get the food without them knowing it tastes even better!It's the reason I steal food off my husbands plate even if I'm eating the same thing.I know! Sometimes my wife will go to hand me some morsel or other, and instead of taking it I bite it. She points out that she intended to hand it to me and I tell her it tastes better this way. :DThis is true. Although after catching my wife grabbing some fries off my tray and telling me "I pick off stragglers"
Picking off straggler food from someones plate, tray, hand, or bag is the most satisfying!
My kids can be picky eaters. when I don't have an evening show, I can usually make it for supper but sometimes I get home slightly before bedtime. Kids had refused to eat their supper. I warm-up their (thoroughly untouched) leftovers. Guess what happens?
You've got it. Kids eat their own leftovers from my plate. Suddenly, broccoli is succulent, and I have to make myself peanut-better sandwiches...
go figure.