This is somewhat like the "Pathfinder rules most people dont know". I see lots of games where there are tactics/procedures that just don't happen with the frequency I'd expect. Maybe it's just play style and YMMV, that said:
Why don't more people...
...ready actions against spellcasting BBEGs?
...drop prone at the end of their actions in ranged combats?
...cast touch spells before combats and hold the charges?
1. No clue
2. Cause it sucks to do that then either have the enemy follow suit or charge up and surround you for easier to hit.
3. Short of setting up an ambush you dont know when combat is coming and you don't know what you have to touch before hand.
It is habit to go on your turn… You don’t know what will happen and don’t want to be caught prone… You don’t know what will happen and don’t want to risk wasting the spell and possibly combat rounds.
It is habit to go on your turn… You don’t know what will happen and don’t want to be caught prone… You don’t know what will happen and don’t want to risk wasting the spell and possibly combat rounds.
The latter...he meant readying an action to shoot a mage in the face when he's casting a spell.
Incidentally, gunslingers are the best counterspellers in the game.
...cast touch spells before combats and hold the charges?
Can you actually do this? I'd love a reference since I didn't know that it was possible.
@ Varthanna
Can you reference which book & page number
What about other people? Are there things you do in PFRPG, that you ever wonder why more people don't do the same?
Dedicate half of my third level spell slots on non-adventuring days with wizards or sorcs to casting explosive runes on small pieces of paper. >_> <_< Hey, a girl's gotta have her cruise missile battery supplied and ready(admittedly it worked a lot better in 3.5, but still!)!
...he meant readying an action to shoot a mage in the face when he's casting a spell.
Yeah, I know that. Thanks though… :)
Well I'll be damned, this adds a whole new element to spell casting for me. I'll have to find something useful to do with this now.
Contributing:
I don't know why more people don't run from combat when the odds are certainly not in the party's favor. Maybe it's just the people I play with but it seems as though some people would rather sit there and fight to the bitter end, or the idea of a retreat never even pops into their head.
What about other people? Are there things you do in PFRPG, that you ever wonder why more people don't do the same?Dedicate half of my third level spell slots on non-adventuring days with wizards or sorcs to casting explosive runes on small pieces of paper. >_> <_< Hey, a girl's gotta have her cruise missile battery supplied and ready(admittedly it worked a lot better in 3.5, but still!)!
He he he. My players now cringe when I pass them notes.
My players are mainly casual. They don't know the combat rules extremely well, so don't think of using them, per se, at east not in the standard ways mentioned. But what they are very good at, is coming up with outrageous moves that cause me to have to link rules together or ad hock for them. Very entertaining. And a nice challenge for me as GM.
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Well I'll be damned, this adds a whole new element to spell casting for me. I'll have to find something useful to do with this now.
Note that it work only with touch spells, not ranged touch.
Contributing:
I don't know why more people don't run from combat when the odds are certainly not in the party's favor. Maybe it's just the people I play with but it seems as though some people would rather sit there and fight to the bitter end, or the idea of a retreat never even pops into their head.
A lot of people hope that the last shot will win the battle or that the GM will change the dice rolls in their favour.
And even more people has problems recognizing when things are starting to go downhill.Then there is the problem that sometime a lucky (or unlucky) critical or save will suddenly change the tide of battle.
Why don't more people...
...ready actions against spellcasting BBEGs?
...drop prone at the end of their actions in ranged combats?
...cast touch spells before combats and hold the charges?
1) full attack against single attack. When you start having multiple attacks you deal more damage with a full attack than with a ready action.
2) move action that provoke a AoO to stand up. Again, no good if you have multiple attacks, want to get to melee range or fear that the enemy will get into melee range.
If possible doing a 5' step to hide behind hard cover will work better.
for a crossbow user or a caster outside range from enemy melee fighters it will work well.
3) depend on the spell, the chance of involuntary discharge and plenty of other factors.
While the charge can be held "indefinitely" if the tactic become widespread I would develop some houserule to check if the spell is involuntary discharged touching something.
It is really hard to spend hours without touching anything.
And I shall name you Varsuvius!
Lol
*laughs* I need to get caught back up with that comic. I used to do this back in 3.5 though, and then wrap the little runed strips around an arrow. Shoot it at the target, or into the target's square, then AoE dispel from a scroll (lowest caster level) and...boom.
Hmm...what else...oh, I don't know why more people don't take skill ranks over extra hp for their favored class bonuses. Maybe I'm just weird, but even with an 8 sp/lvl class I never have enough to get everything I want...
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Hmm...what else...oh, I don't know why more people don't take skill ranks over extra hp for their favored class bonuses. Maybe I'm just weird, but even with an 8 sp/lvl class I never have enough to get everything I want...
People take HP over skills? But thats what healing potions are for
You can never have too many skills!
People take HP over skills? But thats what healing potions are for
You can never have too many skills!
Oh, I totally agree, but HP seems to be the one everyone takes, especially when optimization is wanted. To me, skill points are a lot more valuable, and the only way I don't take them is if I have the option for more spells known or whatnot form my race...
I have always wondered why more people don't use combat maneuvers...
example: pesky ghoul cleric hanging out in an area of darkness and giving the party lots of trouble - party keeps rolling attacks and missing, no one says "I am going to risk the attack of opportunity and drag the ghoul out of the darkness so that maybe we can take it out before it kills us all."
I'd say because drag provokes an attack of opportunity and it's a ghoul. if it hits you, and you fail a fort save, welcome to dead next round town.
My contributions:
Why don't more people...
Stack status effects.
I made a terrifying playtest character in the form of a cavalier on a camel mount. The camel's spit ability sickened, no save, and I used dazzling display to shake a group. The witch in the party would evil eye someone as necessary, and there you go, a -6 penalty on attack rolls, -4 on saving throws, etc. Just begging for a caster to mop them up. And all of that in one round.
Charge when you only have a standard action.
You can do this. It makes surprise rounds matter a hell of a lot more and getting staggered suck a bit less.
Full attack that thing that just grappled them.
You can full attack in a grapple with anything other than a two-handed weapon, and you still threaten. This is incredibly good to know as opposed to being stuck in 3.5 mode and saying "Oh, now I can only try to escape. I failed, guess I do nothing."
Hmm...what else...oh, I don't know why more people don't take skill ranks over extra hp for their favored class bonuses. Maybe I'm just weird, but even with an 8 sp/lvl class I never have enough to get everything I want...People take HP over skills? But thats what healing potions are for
You can never have too many skills!
I beg to differ. I built a rogue who was a human, had 18 Int and had rogue as his favored class.
I have never stared at a skill section for so long.
Oh, I totally agree, but HP seems to be the one everyone takes, especially when optimization is wanted. To me, skill points are a lot more valuable, and the only way I don't take them is if I have the option for more spells known or whatnot form my race...People take HP over skills? But thats what healing potions are for
You can never have too many skills!
Hmm..now that casters can pick extra spells it behoves a sorcerer,oracle or witch (possibly bards too) to expand their repetoire in that direction , especially Witches who get the spells added this way permanently in their familiar even if they have to replace it.
I don't know why more people don't run from combat when the odds are certainly not in the party's favor. Maybe it's just the people I play with but it seems as though some people would rather sit there and fight to the bitter end, or the idea of a retreat never even pops into their head.
I think this is disproportionately a result of the idea that it's the GM's job to balance things to never risk a TPK, and to fudge things if it looks like a TPK is going to happen.
Me, I expect characters who are outmatched to use a dollop of common sense. Retreat, surrender, try to cut a deal, whatever.
Running away is suboptimal. You turn to run, leave a threatened square and provoke an attack of opportunity. Run X feet away. They then charge you, run X feet, and get an attack. Now you're in a threatened square and its your turn. I wonder what will happen.Contributing:
I don't know why more people don't run from combat when the odds are certainly not in the party's favor. Maybe it's just the people I play with but it seems as though some people would rather sit there and fight to the bitter end, or the idea of a retreat never even pops into their head.
The withdraw action is your friend. If they happen to be faster then you, then running is a poor choice
Why don't more people...
...ready actions against spellcasting BBEGs?
...drop prone at the end of their actions in ranged combats?
...cast touch spells before combats and hold the charges?
As noted by others:
1) It's a full attack vs. single attack thing, but I see it used from time to time.
2) Usually one side is trying to get into melee range and being prone doesn't help.
3) The accidental discharge rules are wishy-washy enough (i.e. the spell is discharged if you "touch anything") that I just leave that whole can of worms alone.
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Saw it once here but...
Why don't people use more combat maneuvers?
I know that unless you have the right feats they provoke AoO, but they are so useful that everyone should consider using them more. Dirty Trick is one I want to build a character around, while my current sword and board fighter used bullrush as often as he can.
Use the counterspell action?
I know it is a pain, that you need to ready and action and all that, but if you know the bad guy has some serious spells why not? I really want to build a spell caster who focuses on dueling and countering other spell casters. Someone who is able to really keep the spell slinging baddies from doing anything but run from the charging warriors and sniping archers.
I've never understood why more people didn't scribe scrolls of spells at the end of the day when they play a wizard.
This is somewhat like the "Pathfinder rules most people dont know". I see lots of games where there are tactics/procedures that just don't happen with the frequency I'd expect. Maybe it's just play style and YMMV, that said:
Why don't more people...
...ready actions against spellcasting BBEGs?
Because you can ready an action or full attack. Sure, there is an offchance you can disrupt him. Or you can just kill him.
...drop prone at the end of their actions in ranged combats?
Because if they are ranged, they can instead full attack every round instead of every other round.
If they aren't ranged, they can get to the enemy faster if they don't waste a move action to stand up. Or they can a attack on the second round of moving to the enemy....cast touch spells before combats and hold the charges?
That is actually a good question.
1. Did this once and my DM had the BBEG activate a magic item to waste my action, but it is a great idea.This is somewhat like the "Pathfinder rules most people dont know". I see lots of games where there are tactics/procedures that just don't happen with the frequency I'd expect. Maybe it's just play style and YMMV, that said:
Why don't more people...
...ready actions against spellcasting BBEGs?
...drop prone at the end of their actions in ranged combats?
...cast touch spells before combats and hold the charges?
Your DM is a dick unless he was going to do that anyway. The BBEG would have no idea that you are readying an action or what it is for.
Your DM is a dick unless he was going to do that anyway. The BBEG would have no idea that you are readying an action or what it is for.1. Did this once and my DM had the BBEG activate a magic item to waste my action, but it is a great idea.This is somewhat like the "Pathfinder rules most people dont know". I see lots of games where there are tactics/procedures that just don't happen with the frequency I'd expect. Maybe it's just play style and YMMV, that said:
Why don't more people...
...ready actions against spellcasting BBEGs?
...drop prone at the end of their actions in ranged combats?
...cast touch spells before combats and hold the charges?
Actually the rules are silent on that issue.
Regardless I am fine with the wizard using an non-spell completion item instead of his normal casting ability. It's likely to be far weaker and it is probably worth my turn to prevent him doing something like forcecaging the fighter.
I've never understood why more people didn't scribe scrolls of spells at the end of the day when they play a wizard.Because you are looking at 2 hours worth of work per day. Which will get you a maximum of 1 spell scribed to a scroll.
Because no scroll is better than some scroll? What sort of logic is that?
There are plenty of 2nd level and lower spells that it would be quite useful to have a stock of even if they aren't things you use on a normal basis (especially if they are things you don't use on a normal basis) -- spells which only take 2 hours to scribe.
I think this is disproportionately a result of the idea that it's the GM's job to balance things to never risk a TPK, and to fudge things if it looks like a TPK is going to happen.
In alot of cases party stupidity is also to blame no matter how balanced the battle is. As much as you may try to keep them alive sometimes you just can't.
For example, there is an extremely obvious way to win a battle and for some reason the party just seems to completely over look it even though the answer is right there. Rather than running the party just sits there and gets massacared.
We use an open rolling system so fudging dice is impossible without ruining the flow of the game.
I'd say because drag provokes an attack of opportunity and it's a ghoul. if it hits you, and you fail a fort save, welcome to dead next round town.I have always wondered why more people don't use combat maneuvers...
example: pesky ghoul cleric hanging out in an area of darkness and giving the party lots of trouble - party keeps rolling attacks and missing, no one says "I am going to risk the attack of opportunity and drag the ghoul out of the darkness so that maybe we can take it out before it kills us all."
Right... but if you don't try to drag it, it's just as likely to hit you on it's next turn while the whole party is still at a disadvantage...
so the guy nearest the darkness and ghoul gets paralyzed, get's dropped, and the next guy steps up... and repeat.
...Or that first guy could drag the ghoul out so everyone can hit it...
My point was that I don't understand why people don't risk a little hurt in order to prevent a world of hurt.
Because on top of that they still have a chance to miss it. They could try and drag it, succeed, and still fail, then get paralyzed and killed. Also what is stopping him from moving back into the darkness on his turn and forcing you to try it again?
There's also the fact that if you provoke and get paralyzed on your turn you can actually DIE when his turn comes around. Swinging your sword at him doesn't carry that same risk.
It's a bad situation where an already risky combat maneuver looks very unappetizing.
ready actions against spellcasting BBEGs?
Which action would you like to ready?
Interupt his spell- BBGED 5 foot steps back and casts.
Now i'll agree that the magic missile to the face as a counter-spell tactic is often underused. But a lot of casters try to end the fight with SOD's /SOS's before then.
...drop prone at the end of their actions in ranged combats?
The move action to stand up again is a pain and an aoo if anything runs up to you.
...cast touch spells before combats and hold the charges?
Because sometimes, especially with medieval underwear, you need to check to see if the airline lost the luggage and some dm's have a wicked sense of humor.
Also casting the spell is effectively a free action , because you can cast the spell from behind the fighter, move up, and whack.
Because no scroll is better than some scroll?
True enough, though it depends on how permissive your DM is with regards to the expenses of scroll creation. For example, do all scrolls use the same (expensive) inks and parchments (etcetera)? Or are the inks/parchment dictated by the kind of spell being written?
A permissive DM will just let you carry X gold pieces of scroll materials and create what you want whenever. More exacting DMs will make you plan your scroll creations in specific when you're buying the ingredients.
Because no scroll is better than some scroll?True enough, though it depends on how permissive your DM is with regards to the expenses of scroll creation. For example, do all scrolls use the same (expensive) inks and parchments (etcetera)? Or are the inks/parchment dictated by the kind of spell being written?
A permissive DM will just let you carry X gold pieces of scroll materials and create what you want whenever. More exacting DMs will make you plan your scroll creations in specific when you're buying the ingredients.
Even then it doesn't really matter -- ask the GM up front. As it goes there aren't "special components" only 'choice writing materials worth 12.5gp x spell level x caster level" -- the only requirement is the cost.
If your GM chooses to house rule beyond that (in my opinion) it better be written down and the players had better be informed before the game starts. Then during play you simply get the correct stuff for the spells you intent to scribe at the end of each day.
For example I would probably go with:
Materials for Detect Secret Door x 10
Materials for identify x 20
Materials for detect Invisibility x 10
Materials for Resist Energy x 10
And call it a day. After about 50 days I should have all those scribed, (and possibly used).
IF he further restricts what components for what spells you have access to for scribing he's hating on crafting and perhaps you should look at what you can trade scribing out for.
However in a default game with the standard rules it isn't going to matter.
Why don't more people...
...ready actions against spellcasting BBEGs?
We do from time to time, when we have a chance of disrupting them....drop prone at the end of their actions in ranged combats?
Because it hurts action economy for next round.
...cast touch spells before combats and hold the charges?
Do it sometimes. I REALLY like your idea for a touch-buff, tho... I sometimes held a Vampiric Touch when anticipating combat.