Anyone pick this up yet or run it for their home group? I've read a few reviews with some promising info in them, but I'm primarily concerned with how hard it will be to reskin it for use in my homebrew setting.
One of the designers is Raging Swan himself, Creighton Broadhurst. He's active on the boards so you may be able to ask him. Generally, his RS stuff is designed to be insertable into any campaign.
One of the designers is Raging Swan himself, Creighton Broadhurst. He's active on the boards so you may be able to ask him. Generally, his RS stuff is designed to be insertable into any campaign.
Awesome! Well, then I'll go into greater detail in the hopes that he might chime in:
I'll be running my first full campaign in 4E sometime next year and I'm already planning ahead for it. The backdrop for this story is that war has finally erupted between the largely-human dominated mainland continent and a desert continent ruled by gnolls to the west. Players will start at level 4, and after a few sessions of fighting gnolls and uncovering some nasty political complications, I was thinking of dropping them into Gardmore around 6th level.
The background info from the box blurb says that Gardmore was once populated by Bahamut followers who brought an artifact back from a crusade. Bahamut is already a major deity in my world's cosmology, but dragonborn don't exist in this world. So, possible stumbling block one: how crucial are dragonborn to the central plot? I also seem to recall reading somewhere that orcs are the main antagonists of "Gardmore Abbey", and was wondering how much trouble it would cause to the overarching plot to reskin orc encounters with gnolls from the Monster Vault books. Also, the intent of the campaign is for the PCs to be working with the human crusaders to repel the gnolls by any means necessary, and I'm hoping to hook them into believing that the Abbey holds an artifact which can be used to turn the tide of the war. I may need to find a different angle, though, if the place is obviously sinister.
Ultimately, I'd like for the PCs to find clues within Gardmore that lead them to believe that massive amounts of treasure and magic are stored in a hidden dungeon somewhere far, far away (thus planting the seeds for the RPGA update of the Tomb of Horrors once they hit level 9 or 10). I gather that won't be too hard, since the deck is supposed to have unleashed demons and devils beneath the abbey and Acererak is all about that stuff.
I "won" an early copy from PAX, but haven't really had a chance to look at it yet. Everyone seems to be sort of in love with it, though. I'd be interested in hearing reports of how it runs.
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I'm not aware of any significant dragonborn aspects in this.
I've had a quick scan. I haven't looked at the encounters, but the set-up - plot hooks, major NPCs and motivations - seems well done. Not so sure on the cards and tokens, though I can see how they would be useful to someone without an miniatures army. Personally, I'd have preferred a book (which is what I thought I was getting) as format, but then I'm old-school.
Raging Swan Press
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One of the designers is Raging Swan himself, Creighton Broadhurst. He's active on the boards so you may be able to ask him. Generally, his RS stuff is designed to be insertable into any campaign.
;-(
Rather embarassingly I haven't actually seen a copy of this yet! I am really looking forward to reading it, though, as I have many fond memories of the deck of many things from my youth! I'm also interested to see what happened to my encounters during editting - spotting changes gives me real insights into encounter design.
One of the designers is Raging Swan himself, Creighton Broadhurst. He's active on the boards so you may be able to ask him. Generally, his RS stuff is designed to be insertable into any campaign.;-(
Rather embarassingly I haven't actually seen a copy of this yet! I am really looking forward to reading it, though, as I have many fond memories of the deck of many things from my youth! I'm also interested to see what happened to my encounters during editting - spotting changes gives me real insights into encounter design.
Interesting. I realize you may not be able to give us too much insight on the process due to NDAs and the like, but how is that work apportioned on a project like this? Do you get a full outline of what the lead designer/developer wants to see featured and write the encounters to conform to the theme, or is it a vague, compartmentalized approach where they say, "Design an encounter with these room/terrain features and these monster types" without any real frame of reference as to how it fits into the big picture of the story?
I'm not aware of any significant dragonborn aspects in this.
I've had a quick scan. I haven't looked at the encounters, but the set-up - plot hooks, major NPCs and motivations - seems well done. Not so sure on the cards and tokens, though I can see how they would be useful to someone without an miniatures army. Personally, I'd have preferred a book (which is what I thought I was getting) as format, but then I'm old-school.
When you have taken more time to look this over can you report back on what you personally think about the product? I'm interested in your opinion of how good an adventure this looks to be.
Gosh - I've been tasked. OK - I'll let you know when I look at it properly.
Thanks Aubrey - I trust your judgment when it comes to adventure quality.
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OK, I've had a slightly more detailed flick through.
The basis of the adventure is built around the Deck of Many Things. The PCs enter the adventure having received a card, and the gist of the adventure is the assemble the whole pack. (The adventure contains a set of cards for it too, which is nice.) The other cards are in Gardmore, where they were being held for safekeeping by an order of paladins - but everything went wrong maybe a century ago (fall of Nerath, blah blah), the abbey was sacked and the cards lost.
The box has four softback books in it. The first had adventure background, an oversight of the ara, and a description of the Deck. In addition, as cards are recovered they can be used to produce in-combat effects, either by the villain or the players, depending on who has them (which makes the deck in the box useful). Apparently there was a paragon version of the Deck in a previous Dragon - this version is retooled for heroic play.
The second has details on the major NPCs and their motivations. There are effectively four major NPC quest givers (plus a few minor other ones). One of these four, in addition to their basic role in the adventure, is also the "Hidden Collector", who wants to recover the Deck for their own ends (and doubtless off the PCs too, as they do). You can choose which NPC is the collector randomly (a pull of the Deck, naturally) together with their motivation. There's also a bunch of NPC adventurers in the mix, whose interactions with the NPCS could be interesting. And there are five major villains lurking about in the abbey too.
The third and fourth books comprise the actual encounters (in true Delve format). The abbey can be split into a number of zones. Book 3 covers the ruind village (full of orcs), the gardens (Feywild incursion) and the Watchtower (Far Realm incursion). Book 4 covers the main abbey and catacombs (usual stuff: mad cleric, undead, minotaurs and gnolls, and a dragon).
I'd say the overall design is solid, but not spectacular - sort of par for the course for a WotC adventure. Books 1 and 2 I quite like - there's lots of quests, the Deck is fun, the NPC are fine, and it's a site with a good history and background. The encounters in books 3 and 4 are alright if not, in general, very imaginative (though the chance to get turned into a gibbering monstrosity from Beyond is quite fun, and a decent number are social encounters rather than combat, and/or skill challenges).
And it feels a bit full - the catacombs are literally bursting with enemies (there's apparently a stand-off between the gnolls and minotaurs, yet they each only seem to occupy a single room about twenty feet from each other, with the dragon in a third room a similar distance away from them too) and it seems almost like you can't have a published adventure without the Far Realm (tick!), the Feywild (tick!) and they even managed to throw in Tharizdun (or a priest thereof, anyway)(tick!). So from an ecology perspective it feels a bit overdone - though I'd maybe just make the map a bit bigger and maybe add a few more mooks in rooms to fight (re-airing of my pet peeve: if this wasn't in Delve format, they would have the room, but hey-ho).
That said, there is a lot of material here and I could see this, with not a great deal of work, being good fun for upper heroic tier. I think a DM will need to put their stamp on it to make it shine (I'd personally like more foreshadowing of the major NPCs in the latter parts of the adventure) but it has good bones and decent meat.
Thanks Aubrey. Disappointing that they did not bat this out of the park and to make it really shine the DM has to do some serious work of his own.
Might still get it. Sounds like there are some good elements here for the DM to work with though not having the map really be one of them is very disappointing.
There's quite a lot of encounters here - it's a sort of very-mini-campaign. On that basis it would probably require a bit of DM work anyway to integrate it with an ongoing campaign. Like I said, it's solid - but not brilliant.
I bought a copy over the weekend and have read it fairly thoroughly, but I want to take a second look at it before posting a review.
My first impression of the adventure is close to Aubrey's, honestly - especially the implausibility of the catacombs being big enough for a territorial conflict. The lack of a full map is also a downer for me - it doesn't have to be poster sized, but I'd like to see a contiguous layout with a grid so I can draw it accurately and have a visual reference for how the dungeon is supposed to flow.
The Delve format doesn't seem to do much to benefit this product. About the only plus to it is that you know to pick up another book for an encounter layout rather than flipping through one big book blindly - as we did in, say, Expedition to Castle Ravenloft.
The four-book format seems odd, though - why not one book of background, NPCs, Winterhaven details, and supplemental rules, and another book of encounters? Maybe it's that 32 page layouts are cheaper to print than 64-page ones, I dunno. The product does seem a bit inflated in price for what you get in terms of physical quality.
There's some good things about it, too, though. More later.
I'm definitely getting the impression that the Delve Format really hinders a product that had a lot of potential. I can't say I'm surprised...its just a crappy format outside of actually doing a delve.
Fortunately the format has been declared dead (maybe trying to develop this product underlined its problems - if so it will have done some good).
WARNING: Spoilers for Madness At Gardmore Abbey follow. Avoid this review/post if you think your GM wants to run this.
Accessories and Print Quality. Nice selection of counters (one single sheet that's the same size as those that come with either previous Monster Vault product) with all of the major NPCs represented. If you don't have a deep collection of miniatures, there's enough here to run most of the major encounters without difficulties, maybe using some generic minion and spawn tiles from the MV to supplement. The Deck of Many Things is also nice and shiny; I like that it has a simple visual design without trying to cram mechanics onto the card, which means I can use this prop in virtually any game. The card backs have artwork that simulates the look of carved ivory, which is a nice touch. The foldout maps are good in that they aren't an obvious hodgepodge of tile layouts mashed together. Not all of the abbey is represented on them, but the locations that are look good, especially the full sized foldout map of the temple. Book 1 has a hardboard cover; Books 2, 3, and 4 are on standard glossy rag with no hardboard. The product as a whole seems kinda flimsy, and not the best value for $40.00. Still, the Deck almost makes it worth it. (My advice: Buy from a local retailer who gives a good preferred customer discount. Amazon is also selling them dirt-cheap, but I'm rather hesitant to give them my money these days.)
Books 1 and 2: The Flavor. In summary: Way back, paladins stormed the lair of a demon-worshiping hobgoblin lord and seized an artifact that they unwittingly let loose in their own midst, transforming their abbey into an abattoir of abominations that has become overrun by humanoid raiders and worse things besides. Not the most unique of plots, but easy enough to reskin for most campaign settings, so I'm cool with that. In a callback to good ol' I6: Ravenloft, you can randomize elements of this adventure by drawing cards from the Deck to determine the role certain NPCs play in the story, altering it every time you run the adventure. There's options for shortening the adventure and targeting it for certain levels of experience, but the whole shebang should, in theory, get played out in about a dozen sessions of play if you run Gardmore Abbey in its entirety.
Book 1 gives you an overview of the keep and its denizens and general features. The exterior map is pretty thorough, though (minor nitpick) I dislike the disordered numbering of locations. Reading the breakdown gives you a good feel of what sort of encounters will occur in a given area. The interior maps of the catacombs kind of have that recycled and relayered tile image look, but it's pretty tastefully done - and it's nice to know that buying the base Dungeon Tile set wasn't in vain, as a lot of the nicer pieces from that get used in the layout. The vaults are very busy, thematically - a series of holy altars with a shrine to Baphomet smack in the middle courtesy of a group of minotaurs. Some gnolls found their way in, too, and an oni has convinced these two disparate groups to unite - and then of course there's also the red dragon lairing in the temple who demands tribute from the other factions. No trope is left unturned in Gardmore Abbey, but none of them feel distasteful on the first read-through. It's a nice heroic tier dungeon that borders on the mega side of the spectrum.
The rules for the Deck are neat - one of the cards present in a room, whether in the PCs' possession or not, grants either an at-will or encounter power to the PCs and/or villains (I need to read those mechanics more thoroughly before running this, but apparently you draw randomly from the cards that are currently present when a new encounter begins).
Book 2 outlines the village of Winterhaven, which I've sort of breezed through because I'm less interested in the local flavor and more concerned with NPC personalities. There are various patrons in the village who want different things from the Abbey, and each bestows a single quest or quest chain (I'll refrain from the MMO comparisons because that's a hot button issue right now, but I admit I snickered when first reading these). Depending on the cards you draw before playing, one or more patrons might have hidden agendas, and the possible outcomes of those developments are detailed as separate encounters in the second half of Book 2. There's also a rival adventuring party you can work in as antagonists; some of the scenarios dictate that they work for an NPC in Winterhaven. Each adventurer has a unique stat block, and none of them look terribly complicated to run. There's also lots of background and flavor on each major villain within Gardmore Abbey; their stats are included in books 3 and 4.
Books 3 and 4: The Crunch. Without going into too much detail, the emphasis is on combat, but many of the encounters allow PCs to use their wits or roll skill checks to get around them. The first encounter in Book 3 is a good hybrid of the two approaches, in that if the PCs drop the big brute in the group of orc guards, they have an opportunity to intimidate the lesser monsters into letting them pass. I think everyone knows about the ettin encounter by now, but it bears repeating that this one's well done (and begging for a Monty Pythonization - maybe by adding one more head to the mix). Demonstrating your battle prowess in these encounters may also allow you to treat with the orc leader who rules the marauders in the abandoned village. There's a social encounter with a group of nymphs in the Feygrove area that has some good RP opportunities, especially for well-established PCs, and other exterior areas feature skill challenges that allows the players to avoid nasty run-ins with spiders and owlbears if they don't blunder through it. The bell tower is a straight up old school brawl with displacer beasts and stirges, but with a hostage in the mix as well. Book 3 ends with a neat Far Realm encounter leading up to a fight with a beholder and his aberrant minions in a tower with random terrain effects erupting throughout the room. There's also a BIG skill challenge at the end of the book for a tower defense scenario that I believe is tied into one of the patrons' quests.
Book 4 opens with more straightforward "creature feature" combats, then delves into a skill challenge where the PCs protect a paladin while he performs a ritual to cleanse the temple. The wraiths that were spawned by the artifact make an appearance - I'm not sure if the Vortex Wraith was made especially for Gardmore Abbey or is from one of the previous monster collections, but it's a nasty little build either way. There's a bunch of neat little room features like sacred bowls that can be filled with holy water to repel undead creatures and enchanted statues that bestow bonuses to adventurers when they stand nearby. The minotaurs and gnolls dominate the second half of Book 4, and the PCs can attempt an allegiance with either faction by promising to help destroy their rivals. And of course, there's the obligatory dragon fight with a big swarm of kobold lackeys (which don't appear to be MV builds, aside from the minions) at the end of the book, a suitably epic battle to wrap up heroic tier with either a level up or a quick and ugly death.
Madness at Gardmore Abbey demonstrates a few things to me. One, it signifies that WotC may be figuring out that they need better adventures to compete in the print market. The flavor is bland old Nerath and most of the monsters are right out of the Essentials MV, but most GMs running homebrew campaigns don't care about this anyway. In terms of the plot hooks available for DMs to exploit and the reusability of it with a randomizing mechanic built in, though, it's quite good. It captures a heck of a lot of flavor and hits a lot of classic tropes while still being truly playable by mid to high heroic tier characters by all appearances.
Second, this product may, as Jeremy mentioned, be the last gasp for the Delve Format. Most reviewers are going to criticize the product for its layout, I think. I could see this needing to be split up into two books for ease of reference, but four seems to be pushing it. As I read this adventure, I got the feeling that the writers were fighting an uphill battle against the delve format to breathe life into Gardmore Abbey. They succeeded in this case, but their efforts are being stymied by layout. To illustrate this point, let me point out that understanding the dynamics of the factions in the vaults required me to cross reference three of the four included books. That's annoying. It's time to put the nail in the coffin of Delve and move on to something better.
The content is pretty awesome. The organization of that content, and the quality of the physical product, is not. Total Rating: 3.5 stars, but leaning toward the 4 star mark.
Thanks very much for the comments so far - I've really been looking forward to this and for some reason everyone who says they'll get it in for me subsequently forgets to order it. :(
Can I ask whether the deck of many things continues beyond this adventure? (ie - is it possible to gradually assemble the full deck throughout the adventure and end the heroic tier with the recovery of an artifact? Are there rules for the deck as a whole - rather than individual cards?)
Thanks very much for the comments so far - I've really been looking forward to this and for some reason everyone who says they'll get it in for me subsequently forgets to order it. :(
Can I ask whether the deck of many things continues beyond this adventure? (ie - is it possible to gradually assemble the full deck throughout the adventure and end the heroic tier with the recovery of an artifact? Are there rules for the deck as a whole - rather than individual cards?)
Steve, from what I've read, the end of Book 1 includes rules and statistics for the deck as a Heroic tier artifact, with specific cards each having an effect when drawn, and the deck itself taking on a sentient role where it favors or disfavors the person who is collecting its cards based on in-game actions. For example, winning the deck's favor may make it less likely that you draw the Skull card when you dip into it.
Steve, from what I've read, the end of Book 1 includes rules and statistics for the deck as a Heroic tier artifact, with specific cards each having an effect when drawn, and the deck itself taking on a sentient role where it favors or disfavors the person who is collecting its cards based on in-game actions. For example, winning the deck's favor may make it less likely that you draw the Skull card when you dip into it.Thanks very much for the comments so far - I've really been looking forward to this and for some reason everyone who says they'll get it in for me subsequently forgets to order it. :(
Can I ask whether the deck of many things continues beyond this adventure? (ie - is it possible to gradually assemble the full deck throughout the adventure and end the heroic tier with the recovery of an artifact? Are there rules for the deck as a whole - rather than individual cards?)
Cheers - I've been hoping it included something like that. The adventure itself is unlikely to be much use to me other than to pillage for encounters and/or battlemats (I prefer running Paizo adventures) so based on yours and Audrey's comments, this product is looking pretty good for me.
Hopefully my local store (after the third request, can you believe it?) will actually remember to order me a copy this week. :(
In regards to insubstantial wraiths.
It seems likely that one would want to follow on Pence's advice but I personally suggest that 4E DMs take this a step further.
Insubstantial is really a very poor mechanic. It effectively doubles the HPs of the target creature without really doing much else of interest. It its basically boring with its only saving grace being that it makes radiant shine.
A better option for 4E DMs, in my opinion, is to revert pretty close to the 3rd edition rules here. Halve the hps (or maybe even more then halve them for this specific encounter) and then use a 50% miss chance except with radiant having no miss chance at all.
A 50% miss chance is functionally the equivalent of the 1/2 damage we currently have but it is much, much, more exciting in play. Where insubstantial currently feels like a slog a miss chance actually tends to really heighten the excitement of an encounter with players swearing a blue streak whenever their attack just out right misses. If your players are swearing about monsters that is a really good thing for your game - you've got them riveted on the action and really that is where the DM wants his players focus to be in combat.