You can't generally buy partially-charged wands on demand. There's no "Crazy Ali's Used Wand Emporium" in most campaign worlds. That puts the price for the wands above the price for the staff.
1) Wands have a market price based on their charges.
2) Wands can be sold with less than their maximum charges.3) RAW there is at least a 75% chance that the desired item you are looking for is available if its market value falls at or beneath the GP limit of the town in question.
Ergo you can purchase partially charged wands at lots of places. You are not likely to find a brand new wand of cure light wounds in anything smaller than a small town, but you can legally find used ones in something as small as a thorpe (albeit limited to 3 charges).
Also, a minimum-CL wand of remove disease is very nearly worthless, because it requires a caster level check to overcome the condition. Even the weakest disease is DC 12, which a min-CL wand will fail to overcome almost a third of the time. Higher-end diseases like Bubonic Plague (40% chance to succeed) or Demon Fever (35% chance to succeed) will burn through your charges quickly. Spell-caused diseases are going to be even worse.
If you actually read my post, I noted that remove disease was the ONLY spell up there that actually even benefited from an increased caster level. So perhaps a staff of remove disease at CL 8 might be a fair investment. However...
You said this was a good investment if you didn't need the spell. Even at the minimum caster level, you can heal most diseases with the wand, but it may take a couple of shots. Then again, you only bought the wand on the off-chance you might actually need it; so if it comes in handy then great; if it doesn't then you're not out as much. Then again, disease deals damage slowly. I'm pretty sure if you have a healer who can benefit from the staff, then you will also have a healer who can cast remove disease and would likely prepare it if needed. The exception being the oracle, but they're screwed like sorcerers.
Heck, a CL 20 wand of remove disease is 900 gp per charge. You can legally purchase a single charge in a small town. Now THAT is a good rainy day investment.
Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell.If it's not on your spell list then you don't get to use that spell. A staff with multiple charges is effectively multiple spell-triggers drawing off the same charges. If you are trying to cast a spell off the staff, then that is the spell corresponding with the spell-trigger item.
Thus even if you're a bard, you still need to make a UMD check to cast from a staff of healing to cast remove disease because your class cannot cast the spell corresponding to the spell-trigger in question.
Ergo, I don't really see much use for them as far as gaining access to spells outside your spell list.
Though in a party that owns a Staff of Healing, I would think that the Bard would be remiss if he could fail the UMD to use said staff.
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I have the following houserule to make staves suck less at higher levels:
When a spellcaster spends a spell slot to recharge a staff, he or she may expend a spell slot higher than the highest level of spell in the staff. For each level in excess of that required to add a charge to the staff, one additional charge is added.
This means that if you have a staff that tops out at fireball and you dump an 8th level slot into it, it gains 6 charges. It's still limited to one recharge per day but higher power expenditure allows quicker recharge.
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While I agree finding a wand of the exact spell you want and the exact charges you want is unlikely at best. I don't see any reason why one couldn't find wands with fewer than normal charges.
I do think staves need to be tweaked a bit in pathfinder as they stand right now. I just don't have a good solution. Though the recharge idea by Umbral is a pretty simple and effective one. maybe a 3pp will take a stab at a re-examine of the staves with a optional system for them.
Yes, and you can also find used fully-trained Battle Mastodons for sale in the Mwangi Expanse, by the rules.
The Mwangi Expanse is not part of the core rules and is irrelevant to this discussion. It is part of a specific campaign setting. It is no more part of the core rules than certain nuances from the Forgotten Realms are core elements of Dungeons & Dragons.
That doesn't mean that anyone actually believes that you can "just happen to find" a wand of the exact spell you're looking for with exactly as many charges as you're looking for 75% of the time. That's silly. 75% of the time, in a town of appropriate value, there will be a wand of cure disease for sale. It may have 1 charge. It may have 50 charges. You don't get any input in that.
Second-hand or partially charged wands are within the WBL. Most small towns don't trade in stuff above X charges, but the economy shifts stuff around. Wands are pretty common fare when you get right down to it, and used wands even more common fare. This is akin to buying a used car in a small town's used car dealership. They might buy 'em beat up, clean 'em up a bit, and put 'em on display.
The fact is I'm discussing the rules. That is the default assumption. I'm not telling you how to go play your game, but I am saying what you can do by the rules. If your group wants to ignore that, power to you. However, by the rules you can attempt to purchase wands with reduced charges from towns, even small towns, and they are 75% likely to be there if they fall into the correct range. Yes, in fact, there is probably someone who deals in used or minor magical items. For example, in a thorpe you are likely to have a guy peddling various 1st level potions, 1st level scrolls (up to CL 2nd) and partially charged 1st level wands (between 1-3 charges each).
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Well I guess it depends a bit on your view of. Is the PC's the only real hero's going out, killing stuff, taking their loot and then selling it to local merchants. if they are not then other groups are doing it as well. Which increases the odds of finding more partially used items for sale. Or perhaps in some small city someone made a wand of CLW uses it but the PC's offer to buy it cause they need the extra healing. The owner might be willing to part with it even though they use it and just take the time and profit from the one they currently have to craft a new one.
Just saying I could see a number of ways for partially used items to end up in the magic economy is all.
I have the following houserule to make staves suck less at higher levels:
When a spellcaster spends a spell slot to recharge a staff, he or she may expend a spell slot higher than the highest level of spell in the staff. For each level in excess of that required to add a charge to the staff, one additional charge is added.
This means that if you have a staff that tops out at fireball and you dump an 8th level slot into it, it gains 6 charges. It's still limited to one recharge per day but higher power expenditure allows quicker recharge.
That would make it less terrible. I still don't like paying to get something that ultimately cannibalizes your spell slots to replenish itself, but this at least means that you could return it to full power more readily; assuming of course it's a staff with very minor powers.
Though in a party that owns a Staff of Healing, I would think that the Bard would be remiss if he could fail the UMD to use said staff.
This is very true. The bard will likely auto-succeed by 11th level (+14 ranks, +6 Cha or so), so it would probably be a non-issue for the bard. However, it does mean that the wizard's not going to be casting a lot of bard, cleric, or druid spells merely because he knows resist energy on a staff with said spells. :P
Though in a party that owns a Staff of Healing, I would think that the Bard would be remiss if he could fail the UMD to use said staff.This is very true. The bard will likely auto-succeed by 11th level (+14 ranks, +6 Cha or so), so it would probably be a non-issue for the bard. However, it does mean that the wizard's not going to be casting a lot of bard, cleric, or druid spells merely because he knows resist energy on a staff with said spells. :P
'Struth. The Bard may have it even sooner with a Circlet of Persuasion. Definitely a troublesome spot for those classes. Sorcerer can make good use of it as well though.
Yes, and you can also find used fully-trained Battle Mastodons for sale in the Mwangi Expanse, by the rules.The Mwangi Expanse is not part of the core rules and is irrelevant to this discussion. It is part of a specific campaign setting. It is no more part of the core rules than certain nuances from the Forgotten Realms are core elements of Dungeons & Dragons.
On the other hand, if you interpret that rule in that way, there's literally an infinite amount of items of any kind below the GP value. Not 75% chance but a number infitely near 100%. Why? "I go look for a black wand of cure light wounds with 37 charges". DM rolls... "Nope, there's none here." Player: "I go look for a white wand of cure light wounds with 37 charges". DM: *sighs*.
The rule is for an item, not a specific variation of an item. Just like you can't get an individual roll for a gold-laced scale mail with scale 3, 13, and 154 (counting from top-left to bottom-right) missing, you can't use that rule for a specific variation of an item. Thus, the question is: "Is there a wand of cure light wounds in this town?" There's a 75% chance there is one.
EDIT: It also makes sooo many low-level encounters trivial with free access to 1-3 charge wands as needed..
Well I guess it depends a bit on your view of. Is the PC's the only real hero's going out, killing stuff, taking their loot and then selling it to local merchants.
That makes sense. On the other hand, most groups would prefer to buy lower-charge wands, and thus the price on them would rise - leading to 50 charge wands being more or less "discount" wands, while a 25 charge wand of CLW might cost 500 gp or so. If we're going to bring common sense into the mix. :-D
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On the other hand, if you interpret that rule in that way, there's literally an infinite amount of items of any kind below the GP value. Not 75% chance but a number infitely near 100%. Why? "I go look for a black wand of cure light wounds with 37 charges". DM rolls... "Nope, there's none here." Player: "I go look for a white wand of cure light wounds with 37 charges". DM: *sighs*.
More like, well is there one with 36 charges? How about 35 charges? Bingo! Ok, I'm going to use this 250 gold pieces and trade him these two wands we picked up off that bugbear shaman. That cool? Alright, great. *walks away happily with a wand of cure light wounds with 35 charges.
See, mechanically it's different. You walk into a town and want to know if they have a +1 fullplate for sale, it doesn't matter if it's pink, blue, black, or rainbow patterned, it's still a +1 fullplate and if they don't have it they don't have it. However, there is an actual cost difference with wands which likewise means availability difference. A town may have any number of wands, at different charges; but some wands may never have more than X charges based on the size of the town.
In many ways, this might be comparable to buying new vs used cars in large town dealerships vs small town dealers who deal primarily in used stuff 'cause the economy doesn't support that new Porsche.
EDIT: It also makes sooo many low-level encounters trivial with free access to 1-3 charge wands as needed.
Haha. You think so? I've been using and have allowed the use of partially charged wands for years. If a single fireball was enough to ruin your encounter then there wasn't much to that encounter to begin with. A 3rd level wand is 225 gp per charge, market value. A 4th level wand is 420 gp per charge. I suppose you could put a lot of your wealth towards getting the equivalent of a "secret weapon", but are you going to randomly use it to attempt to "trivialize encounters" or are you going to try and hold it for when you really need it?
Likewise, remember that NPCs can and will often carry partially charged wands. I might be an evil GM, but you can definitely bet that a CR 3 bugbear adept might be packin' some lightning bolt charges, or might have a charge or two of stoneskin tucked away for his last stand against the PCs.
Yes, and you can also find used fully-trained Battle Mastodons for sale in the Mwangi Expanse, by the rules.The Mwangi Expanse is not part of the core rules and is irrelevant to this discussion. It is part of a specific campaign setting. It is no more part of the core rules than certain nuances from the Forgotten Realms are core elements of Dungeons & Dragons.This is sidestepping the point.
Replace "Mwangi Expanse" with "tropical area" if you must. I was simply referring to the fact that, by the very rule you cited, it's possible to find stupidly rare (but not necessarily stupidly expensive) mundane things in really stupid places. Let's say the value of a shark trained as a warrior's mount (completely legal by the rules) costs 2,000 gold. That means that you can find them for sale in completely land-locked cities 75% of the time, by the rules, as long as those cities have a value of at least 2,000 gold.
Read the rules before you argue them.
Nonmagical items and gear are generally available in a community of any size unless the item is particularly expensive, such as full plate, or made of an unusual material, such as an adamantine longsword. These items should follow the base value guidelines to determine their availability, subject to GM discretion.
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3) RAW there is at least a 75% chance that the desired item you are looking for is available if its market value falls at or beneath the GP limit of the town in question.You're really fond of quoting that line as if it was an iron rule from the book of Nod.
You do seem to forget that it's very quickly followed up by this line.
If you are running a campaign with low magic, reduce the base value and the number of items in each community by half. Campaigns with little or no magic might not have magic items for sale at all.
Well duh Lazar. I speak of the standard. If you're running a low magic deviation from the standard then that's all well and good, and such would be applicable to a low-magic game. Even in a low-magic game you can still acquire partially charged wands; just now they have less charges (50 gp becomes 25 gp which means cure light wounds (1 charge) instead of (3 charges). Or are you planning to argue that we should assume little to no magic and that you can't buy magic items at all?
If I am speaking of a variation, I will note that. Otherwise, I am speaking for the standard. There are a LOT of things that change if you're running a high/low/no magic/fantasy, or a fast/medium/slow experience progression. For example, all monsters in the MM have equipment based on the medium experience progression; and it should be cranked up if you're running a fast progression, or cranked down if you are running a slow progression. This is one of the reasons creatures like balors and mariliths are only using a premade set and is subject to adjustments.
Treasure: The exact value of the creature's treasure depends on if you're running a slow, medium, or fast game, as summarized on Table: Treasure Values per Encounter. In cases where a creature has specific magical gear assigned to it, the assumption is a medium game—if you play a fast or slow game, you'll want to adjust the monster's gear as appropriate. “Standard” treasure indicates the total value of the creature's treasure is that of a CR equal to the average party level, as listed on Table: Treasure Values per Encounter. “Double” or “triple” treasure indicates the creature has double or triple this standard value. “Incidental” indicates the creature has half this standard value, and then only within the confines of its lair. “None” indicates that the creature normally has no treasure (as is typical for an unintelligent creature that has no real lair, although such creatures are often used to guard treasures of varying amounts). “NPC gear” indicates the monster has treasure as normal for an NPC of a level equal to the monster's CR.
Got anything useful to gripe about, or can we continue discussing why Pathfinder staffs suck?
Read the rules before you argue them.Read the post before you get snarky.
That means that you can find them for sale in completely land-locked cities 75% of the time, by the rules, as long as those cities have a value of at least 2,000 gold.
Yeah. Being as your shark mount isn't some sort of magical item like Drizzt's panther, then it probably isn't available subject to GM discretion. Exactly which part of your post did I not read prior to becoming irritated with your continued pestering?
These items should follow the base value guidelines to determine their availabilityThanks, already covered that.
So where is this quote from?
Having the scale mail being slightly broken or gold-laced also affects price, you know. If there isn't access I'd easily pay an extra GP to get one with a nice wool cloak attached.
EDIT: It also makes sooo many low-level encounters trivial with free access to 1-3 charge wands as needed.Haha. You think so? I've been using and have allowed the use of partially charged wands for years. If a single fireball was enough to ruin your encounter then there wasn't much to that encounter to begin with. A 3rd level wand is 225 gp per charge, market value.
Fireball? Nope, not a problem. But I know how much players love to use scrolls of 1st and 2nd level spells through the first three levels - this nearly doubles the availability, and makes them far easier to use. Suddenly you have to design dungeons for 1st level characters as if they were 5th - cause they can readily get access to spider climb (90 gp), auguary (90 gp), lesser restoration (15 gp, now far easier to use), haste (120 gp, now far easier to use) and so on. While these things where accessible before via scrolls, their cost was prohibitive - dropping that by 40% makes a huge difference.
Not to mention NPC's. Against the Rogue 2/Wizard 1 (CR2 encounter)... Well, he uses a wand of summon monster V to summon an Ankylosauros (CR6).
Compare that to a scroll which costs 1000 gp, thus is available at first to a 5th level heroic character and REQUIRES Charisma 14, or intelligence 15. The user must also, if below 9th level, make a DC caster level check - failure means you failed to use it and might suffer a mishap. Also, scrolls provoke.
Who'd ever use scrolls in this situation?
Yeah, lightning bolt on a bugbear adept might be fine... 'Cause it aint a that dangerous spell. Dangerous, sure, but it's a spell heavily reliant on saving throws and caster level. Summon Monster V, which a charge of costs 600 gp, is a whole other deal.
Now yes, I could just adjust all adventures, but when there's two very possible interpretations of a rule, and one seriously affects game balance, the CR system, and generally gives weird results (such as infinite checks for a specific item just by adjusting the price a bit), and one doesn't - I usually go for the more sensible solution.
You roll how you like, but the're a RAW way that makes sense, and one that's... odd.
Did you not even read the rules YOU got snarky about me supposedly not reading? And then quoted to me? Please read the rules before you argue them.These items should follow the base value guidelines to determine their availabilityThanks, already covered that.So where is this quote from?
Magic items are valuable, and most major cities have at least one or two purveyors of magic items, from a simple potion merchant to a weapon smith that specializes in magic swords. Of course, not every item in this book is available in every town.
The following guidelines are presented to help GMs determine what items are available in a given community. These guidelines assume a setting with an average level of magic. Some cities might deviate wildly from these baselines, subject to GM discretion. The GM should keep a list of what items are available from each merchant and should replenish the stocks on occasion to represent new acquisitions.
The number and types of magic items available in a community depend upon its size. Each community has a base value associated with it (see Table: Available Magic Items). There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale with little effort in that community. In addition, the community has a number of other items for sale. These items are randomly determined and are broken down by category (minor, medium, or major). After determining the number of items available in each category, refer to Table: Random Magic Item Generation to determine the type of each item (potion, scroll, ring, weapon, etc.) before moving on to the individual charts to determine the exact item. Reroll any items that fall below the community's base value.
If you are running a campaign with low magic, reduce the base value and the number of items in each community by half. Campaigns with little or no magic might not have magic items for sale at all. GMs running these sorts of campaigns should make some adjustments to the challenges faced by the characters due to their lack of magic gear.
Campaigns with an abundance of magic items might have communities with twice the listed base value and random items available. Alternatively, all communities might count as one size category larger for the purposes of what items are available. In a campaign with very common magic, all magic items might be available for purchase in a metropolis.
Nonmagical items and gear are generally available in a community of any size unless the item is particularly expensive, such as full plate, or made of an unusual material, such as an adamantine longsword. These items should follow the base value guidelines to determine their availability, subject to GM discretion.
I don't see your citation here. In fact, I don't see it anywhere on the magic items page. Hence why I asked you to point out where your quote was coming from, that I might be better educated on this topic in the future.
IT's a fallacious argument because there IS no standard. PFS certainly does not have magic item purchase (or creation) and the Adventure Paths don't have shops with more than say 2-12 items in TOTAL. The real problem is that statement AS WRITTEN is utterly totally fallacious to assume that any little shop in Hommelet is going to have three quarters of all magic items in a given price range in inventory when it's also clear in that line that the die value says about 2-8 items in total. Essentially the entire paragraph in that sentence if taken the way you interpret it, is a self-destructing contradiction.
Actually, yes there is a standard. The standard point buy is 15, and the standard game assumes the medium experience progression. All the rules are written based on a standard and then notes included for running high or low variations; as I noted previously and provided examples of.
Likewise, I am not taking the rules out of context. I have quoted the rules above in response to Fozbek. I shall do so again, here to illustrate the important bit.
The number and types of magic items available in a community depend upon its size. Each community has a base value associated with it (see Table: Available Magic Items). There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale with little effort in that community. In addition, the community has a number of other items for sale. These items are randomly determined and are broken down by category (minor, medium, or major). After determining the number of items available in each category, refer to Table: Random Magic Item Generation to determine the type of each item (potion, scroll, ring, weapon, etc.) before moving on to the individual charts to determine the exact item. Reroll any items that fall below the community's base value.
On the chart it notes that a thorpe has a 50 gp limit. You can easily purchase things like minor potions, scrolls, salves, and even feather token boat-anchors here with little to no problem the majority of the time. In addition to these common trinkets, you can also find 1d4 minor magic items which are generated at random for the town, using the random generation rules (% dice determine the type of item: armor & shields, weapons, potions, rings, rods, staffs, wands, and wondrous items) with some categories not available (there are no minor rods or staffs for example). You then determine these items randomly.
You could find that the thorpe currently has 3 minor magic items for sale above and beyond its normal fare. You roll randomly and determine what the town has. For example, it might have...
arcane scroll of level 2 spell, animal trance (caster level 3): 150 gp (Scroll)
+1 large sized leather armour: 1,320 gp (Armour)
clear spindle ioun stone, function indicated by an inscription in gnome: 4,000 gp (Wondrous Item)
That's how it works.
PS: this wonderful generator makes such things a breeze and has some very nice options, including the option to include stuff from the APG, etc.
Nonmagical items and gear are generally available in a community of any size unless the item is particularly expensive, such as full plate, or made of an unusual material, such as an adamantine longsword. These items should follow the base value guidelines to determine their availability, subject to GM discretion.
Are you joking or are you actually incapable of reading things in context? This is exactly what I said. Here, let me bold it for you again.
These items (mundane items) should follow the base value guidelines to determine their availability (stuff to expensive is likely not on sale), subject to GM discretion.
Purchasing a shark in the middle of a desert is subject to GM discretion; just as purchasing a komodo dragon in the middle of the frozen tundra would be out of line for the area, and the GM is free to note that the mundane item isn't available. This doesn't stop someone from purchasing a figurine of wondrous power in an area, however.
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Fozbek, I don't think you can argue reading the rules if you don't point them out. Otherwise, you are playing, "I'm not telling you" and looking like you know nothing.
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So it's your assertion that GMs have no discretion over the availability of magic items, only mundane items?
Really now? And you accuse me of selective reading? In what universe does that make sense?
If you are running a campaign with low magic, reduce the base value and the number of items in each community by half. Campaigns with little or no magic might not have magic items for sale at all. GMs running these sorts of campaigns should make some adjustments to the challenges faced by the characters due to their lack of magic gear.
There, are you happy now?
Sheesh, what in the heck is your problem, or Lazar's problem? I didn't start an argument with you or he. Hell, I wasn't even talking to LazarX and he jumps in and starts ridin' my chain about the rules and trying to argue against something I'm not. Seriously, you got snarky with me first dude. I answered a rule question when it was challenged. You then spouted off some nonsense about elephants in some area of Golarion, and how silly it was that thorpes would have items in their price range if you don't want them to. That's great dude. Also, smooth. Totally.
So by this point I'm getting a bit irritated because you seem to be trying to start something when I already cited the rules. So I cite them again. You then apparently don't read any of it, and then begin making vague statements about me not reading it. Then when you finally do say what you are quoting, you misquote it and don't even bother to read the context in which the text is. One moment, let me assist you.
This will assist in future discussions. Study this, and you will have more fruitful discussions, assuredly.
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I was following the logical conclusion that, since you make the claim that any item that is within a city's value is available 75% of the time, full stop, it therefore follows that you can find stupid things in places they have no business being. This wasn't snark, it was reductio ad absurdum (taking an argument to a logical, but silly, extreme, in order to show the error in the logic).
You have failed to prove that partially charged magic items have no business being in a small community.
So by this point I'm getting a bit irritated because you seem to be trying to start something when I already cited the rules. So I cite them again. You then apparently don't read any of it, and then begin making vague statements about me not reading it.You accused me of not reading the rules, then didn't even realize that the rule I was using was in the rules that you quoted to me. Do you see how that might be just a wee irritating and why I might respond that way?
Mainly because you insisted on fighting about something that was already covered in the rules and had no place in the discussion about the availability of magic items based on the size of the settlement. It literally appeared that you hadn't read the rules. I posted the rules, and then you apparently took some great offense.
Then when you finally do say what you are quoting, you misquote it and don't even bother to read the context in which the text is.Utterly and patronizingly false, considering I copied and pasted from the rules text you copied and pasted to me. So, unless you misquoted the rules, I certainly didn't. As for your assertion about me taking things out of context, I'll point out that that entire section of rules is for GMs, and it specifically says that GMs should build a shop inventory per merchant and only change that inventory periodically. That means the GM determines what items are available, not the players.
Actually, you copy and pasted a single line from the paragraph that discusses the purchase and availability of mundane items, out of context, and just cited it. Also, you are mis-representing the rules yet again. GMs are recommended to generate a shop inventory that is in addition to the items already available under the 75% rule. Here, I'll do it again.
The following guidelines are presented to help GMs determine what items are available in a given community. These guidelines assume a setting with an average level of magic. Some cities might deviate wildly from these baselines, subject to GM discretion. The GM should keep a list of what items are available from each merchant and should replenish the stocks on occasion to represent new acquisitions.
The number and types of magic items available in a community depend upon its size. Each community has a base value associated with it (see Table: Available Magic Items). There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale with little effort in that community. In addition, the community has a number of other items for sale. These items are randomly determined and are broken down by category (minor, medium, or major). After determining the number of items available in each category, refer to Table: Random Magic Item Generation to determine the type of each item (potion, scroll, ring, weapon, etc.) before moving on to the individual charts to determine the exact item. Reroll any items that fall below the community's base value.
Oh, and I notice you failed to answer my question. Care to do so? I'll repeat it for you: Do you really believe that DMs have no discretion over the magical items that are available (ie, they MUST allow you to go through your "is a 36-charge wand available? no? is a 35-charge wand available? no? is a 34-charge wand available?" bull****), but can say no to mundane items? Because that's what your responses have implied. And, to be clear, I'm not talking about low-magic or no-magic campaigns. I'm talking about default campaigns.
GMs are the final arbiter of everything from what is available to how many HP the 1st level orc warriors have. However, they are not following the rules if they crank the warrior's HP to 30 while he has 1 HD and generic stats; and they are not following the rules for standard item availability if they take your route. That might be fine, but when I'm on the forum I discuss the rules and how stuff runs under those rules. Not how it runs under your house rules, or LazarX's house rules, or TriOmegaZero's house rules, or Kirth Girson's house rules; I discuss the rules. Plain and simple. You don't have to like those rules, but please stop trolling me because I am discussing those rules which you apparently find offensive.
Assuming so--again, your posts have implied as such--I leave you with this conundrum: That position means you have a 75% chance to find +1 full plate in a city that the DM has said does not have non-magical full plate available.
The biggest problem I see here is that the GM has no reason to just arbitrarily say that there is no +1 fullplate there. Could he say so just 'cause? Yeah, he's the GM. Does that mean he's not following the rules? Yes; yes it does.
If, on the other hand, you make a sudden turn to rationality, and see the logical inconsistency in that, you should realize that my initial assertion was true all along: finding perfectly charged wands for sale is no more allowed by the rules than finding war-trained shark mounts in the middle of the desert.
There is no logical inconsistency, any more than it's logically inconsistent that you can find running used cars for sale. You apparently do not like the rules as they are written. I find no problem with the rules, and they work. However, causing a dispute about a rule, misquoting and taking a rule out of context after refusing to explain your position, and then dropping your position and trying to make an appeal to some sort of assumed logic does nothing for anyone; wasted my time and yours; and serves no purpose other than to make us both look like fools.
I wasn't the one that played the "You didn't read the rules" card. And I did point it out. Ashiel just doesn't like his/her own card being turned back on him/her.
I do expect the card to be played properly.
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Sorry to derail what is shaping up to be one heck of an epic, never-ending argument but ...
On the subject of magical staves, might I point everyone to Krazy Kragnar's Magic Staff Emporium from Super Genius Games.
It presents 10 new magical staves, each in lesser, standard and greater versions, along with rules for upgrading from leseer to standard to greater (so a magic staff can grow with the character)
There is even a feat which allows one to create a lesser staff at lower level.
Please check it out - I think many of those in this thread might find it interesting :)
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Granted it's not likely to ever crop up in most games, but thinking about this whole Staff business, it looks like the Arcane Apotheosis power of the Sorcerer's Arcane Bloodline allows you to do some very nice things with Staves... mostly if you're allowed to make your own custom jobs, of course.
Make a Staff with a 9th level spell in it which costs only 1 charge to use (for whatever exorbitant price that would be) and you can spam that 9th level spell for the low, low, cost of three levels worth of your spell slots!
Sure, at level 20 it's just icing on the cake, but still, it seemed sorta' relevant... ;)
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I use the following house rules in my games.
- 1st: You only need to have the spell on your available class list to be able to cast it from a spell trigger item. You don't need to actually have the spell known or in your spell book.
- 2nd: Spells from a staff require a number of charges equal to 1/3 the level of the spell. (ie. 1-3:1, 4-6:2, 7-9:3 ; 0's can't be put into a staff) This is mandatory, and no price break is given during creation of the staff. (Yes this means any official staff needs to be repriced.)
- 3rd: When recharging a staff, expending a spell slot/prepared spell of the same level as one of the spells in the item, it replenishes an equal number of charges as it costs to use from the staff.
I use the following house rules in my games.
- 1st: You only need to have the spell on your available class list to be able to cast it from a spell trigger item. You don't need to actually have the spell known or in your spell book.
Pretty sure this is RAW, not a house rule.
Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.
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Staffs and Wands are current;y broken IMO Staffs are way over priced
and wands are under priced in comparsion to staffs. I know that staffs you the weilders caster stat and wands do not.
Staffs and Wands are just magical storage devices. Pazio brought frward a broken Crafting system and made a few changes for staffs when the whole mechanic should have been thrown out. the entire pricing system is overly complex and brings nothing to the game except advanced mathamatics not A+DD.
In another gaming system I playedd in had a much better system for creating wands and staffs pay a base price for material components for the wand or staff and a base price of 250 gp for a wand and 500gp for a staff.
To Charge a wand or staff you paid 3x the Mana it cost to cast the spell. In a sloted system all you would have to do is charge 3x in spell slots for what ever spell was cast. To some people this might sound excessive until you realize that casters do not always cast all their spells every day.
Ex Billy blaster the Sorc has spent a full day adventuring in the river kingdoom but has only had one encounter and only cast two of his fireballs that inceneratied the baddie and now he is sitting at the campfire with all his unused spell slots he spends a few hours charging his staff eexpending his remaing spell slots and his nifty staff is fuly charged for the next day adventuring and he goes to bed tried but fullfilled and awakens the next morning rested and recharged with a full staff ready to blast the bad old monsters the GM throws at him.
If you can afford to make a staff with limited wish and/or wish, then you can forever cast those spells WITHOUT PAYING THEIR COMPONENT COSTS, limited to once per day (or every few days if you save money by increasing the charges needed).
You can do this with ANY spell that has a material component cost. :D
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I use the following house rules in my games.
- 1st: You only need to have the spell on your available class list to be able to cast it from a spell trigger item. You don't need to actually have the spell known or in your spell book.
Pretty sure this is RAW, not a house rule.
Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.
Ah, whoops! I thought that was the case and then some how when reading this thread I thought someone had said the opposite.
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Yeah, but I haven't heard of too many games/groups that get magical gear prior to when they should be able to afford it (per the Wealth by Level Guidelines) or craft it. Needless to say, it seems unusual to me.Maybe he bought it/found it. You don't need Craft Staff to recharge the staff. Just the appropriate spells.even if you're not in-between adventures, in our campaigns it's not unusual for us to have a week of travel time between "events" or locations for the campaign and that means you will have almost completely refilled the staff of charges.How on earth did you end up with a party that has a character with a magical staff (which can't even be created until level 11), but no means of fast travel (overland flight, teleport, magic vessel, etc.)?
I for instance am a level 5 tattooed sorcerer with charisma 24 (almost 6th level),who random rolled a magic cookbook that (due in part to a good diplomacy roll) sold it for 17280 gp (normal player sale value being 14400), I had a little under 6k gp already and with that I was able to get a +1, shocking, mithril bastard sword (guided with adamantite)with a sharkskin grip(for a +2 to my Disarm combat maneuver defense) with a silver rod fitted in the core, that core was there to be treated as a staff, the staff had protection from law/evil and shield put in it, my DM house rules that Staves get a Free +1, and that mithril is 10% cheaper to enchant with things related to electricity (eg the shocking), and adamantite has a similar property with Keen and enchantments designed to physically break objects
but anyway the total came to 16455 gp, it was sweet, that was useful to me, as I had none of those spells outside of scrolls, and a sucky AC without them, on top of that, the sword was intelligent and had an enchanted counterweight that gave me +1 to my will saves, fire resistance 1 mending at will and chill metal once a day.the sword/stave was commissioned to a 15th level really old (venerable) wizard who owed us a favor for saving his life (his spell-book he had with him was stolen and he wasn't able to get to his house with his backups)
in closing, there's the 'recharging' power, so your 'downtime recharge time takes half as long (1800gp +2 ego so it may not be worth it)
ps: one of you misspelled teleport