Has anyone done one?
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Has anyone done one?
I was actually working on one for a little while, albeit exceedingly slowly. I had started with the actual Tomb itself. I eventually gave up, because the Pathfinder mechanics are so ill-suited for traps to actually be deadly that I would either have to redo the entire mechanics of traps, or have something akin to the 3.5 version...a Tomb with safety rails. I think that was about the point where I decided that making a conversion of pre-d20 material to a d20 system was, for me at least, kinda pointless; and that it would really work better just to play using Swords & Wizardry: Complete (or your favorite version of "retro" rules).
And these days, if I were going to convert something, it'd probably be the other way around. I've thought about maybe running a Paizo AP using S&W. The great thing about conversion that was is that it could largely be done on the fly.
I'd think if the DCs were high enough to perceive or disable the traps it could still be made pretty difficult - use traps with a higher challenge rating. I haven't looked at the ones in the adventure specifically though so it might be somewhat difficult to capture the original deadly feel. I just obtained this boxed set the other week and it looks like it would be a lot of fun.
That said, I might just want to run it using Rules Cyclopedia since characters are so fast to make for that (even at higher levels) that dead characters are fast to replace. :-)
L
Has anyone done one?
Our group played through "Return" two or three years ago, and the GM had converted most of it to Pathfinder standard for the time (the system was still in beta - I remember it vividly because I was a lizardman multi-classed as a 3.5 scout/PF Beta barbarian with levels in anointed knight from the Book of Exalted Deeds, and could kick some major ass doing it).
It played well, although it was excessively deadly at times. Some of those traps just aren't designed to be survivable, and I think the GM scaled back the DCs and damage outputs to more reasonable levels, at least until we got into the final parts of Moil and the Fortress of Conclusion and the gloves came off.
Was there anything in particular that you wanted details on? I can ask him if he still has any conversion notes he could pass along, as we work together and he is about six feet away from me as I type this.
EDIT: I have toyed with running this adventure myself one day, but if I do, I'll probably use Castles & Crusades to minimize conversion work and run it more or less on the fly directly from the boxed set. 'Cuz I'm lazy.
Has anyone done one?
I started one with a friend a few years ago for epic/ 3.5 rules. We converted everything up to the tomb (opening encounters, giant lair, Skull City, and the Black academy), plus we expanded on the background of the tomb, prominent NPCs and included illustrations. Altogether so far its a 40-50 page PDF. If you're interested shoot me an email at trewat@telus.net and I'll send you a copy.
The 3.x/Pathfinder mechanics for secret doors have also changed since 1e/2e. One Detect Secret Doors spell (Bard 1, Sorcerer/Wizard 1, and possibly some other classes) and the party practically waltzes through the tomb ... particularly if the Paladin uses his Detect Evil on things like a certain hidden sphere of annihilation and the like.
So there's no chance of recreating situations like the one where the party is desperately trying to find the secret door out of a room while the trap automatically resets at the end of each round.
Technically, it wasn't the sphere itself. But the 3.5 update described that particular trap as radiating "evil and magic (necromancy; CL 20th) if a detection attempt is made." Which is a dead giveaway that something is seriously wrong there.
I am thinking of looking at the tropes that made the return fun, and doing a high level adventure that is inspired by it.
My working title is "The Dungeon of No Return" and I will mean it. I think the real thing that made the Return really work is thoughtful tactical encounters, an intelligent story line, and finally the journal of someone having gone before.
I am thinking of looking at the tropes that made the return fun, and doing a high level adventure that is inspired by it.
My working title is "The Dungeon of No Return" and I will mean it. I think the real thing that made the Return really work is thoughtful tactical encounters, an intelligent story line, and finally the journal of someone having gone before.
Stop thinking of products I want, I'm going broke over here.
Tomb of Horror Revised
Linkified
I know this isn't strictly relevant, but I converted Return to White Plume Mountain and ran it back in 3.0 days. You can always count on good ol' Bruce Cordell to freak the players out in new and interesting ways... Those characters were lucky enough to survive and went on to many other adventures, but they still kinda think of RtWPM as their rite-of-passage, where they went from "I like adventures!" to "We have beheld the abyss."
Whereas I always rate Tomb of Horrors as the Legendary Dungeon, the one in-game that is simply a hole that eats people and has a rep to match. You just want to stand at the entrance, cast earthquake, and grab your shovels. ;)
... title is "The Dungeon of No Return" ... and finally the journal of someone having gone before.
But how will they get the journal if no one returned?
... title is "The Dungeon of No Return" ... and finally the journal of someone having gone before.But how will they get the journal if no one returned?
I can only assume it involved some sort of teleportation based dismemberment trap.