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As far as players effecting their campaigns, here's were Faction Standing really would come in. A faction in the highest standing would directly effect the campaign in the next season. As the next season's scenarios would be colored by that factions dominance.
For instance:
If Chaliax was dominate then the next seasons scenarios would have them spreading their diabolic power across multiple adventures.
If Osirion were dominate then the next season would show ancient magics rising
If Taldor were dominate the Legions would be organizing and beginning to take control again
If Quadira were dominate then trade embargoes and economic pressures would be the theme
Etc... Etc...
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Thats the whole arguement is having to go to Cons Jp. Yes, if you consider locally an hour drive to and from, or spending 120 dollars a night a hotel. I consider local a 10 minute drive to my local gaming store. Exspense aside, I have school responsibilites.My friends who are in the same boat had National Guard.
While that may be your definition of "local" here in Atlanta a 10 minute drive may get you to a grocery store. The FLGSs that my wife and I ran for the last year were the closest stores to us; it was a 30 minute drive to get to those stores. Plenty of our GMs that come and help us out have to drive 45+ minutes, and this isn't even cross the entire metro area (which is much closer to an hour and a half or two hours).
While I understand the dislike of Cons, conventions are very important to the growth of PFS. And to be honest these boons are being given out to large game stores as well. My suggestion is that if you'd like those available for your store then you should volunteer to run games or organize the game store and try to do a "con" over a weekend that would benefit from these boons.
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Thats the whole arguement is having to go to Cons Jp. Yes, if you consider locally an hour drive to and from, or spending 120 dollars a night a hotel. I consider local a 10 minute drive to my local gaming store. Exspense aside, I have school responsibilites.My friends who are in the same boat had National Guard.While that may be your definition of "local" here in Atlanta a 10 minute drive may get you to a grocery store. The FLGSs that my wife and I ran for the last year were the closest stores to us; it was a 30 minute drive to get to those stores. Plenty of our GMs that come and help us out have to drive 45+ minutes, and this isn't even cross the entire metro area (which is much closer to an hour and a half or two hours).
While I understand the dislike of Cons, conventions are very important to the growth of PFS. And to be honest these boons are being given out to large game stores as well. My suggestion is that if you'd like those available for your store then you should volunteer to run games or organize the game store and try to do a "con" over a weekend that would benefit from these boons.
Customer service, and customer appreciation are important to the growth of any company. When this is given to only a select few, it can backfire. I have ran a game for PFS, it was not a good experiance, but that is another discussion, thanks for the suggestion, heres one for you,if you have an issue with where you live and the driving time it takes you to get from point a to b, move.
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PFS is giving people a clear way to get boons: participate more. Be it go to a con, or organize something awesome at your store. I went to a con, had fun, didn't get a boon. Someone else playing an aasimar before I do doesn't really bother me. My character is my character, she will be played when its her time.
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PFS is giving people a clear way to get boons: participate more. Be it go to a con, or organize something awesome at your store. I went to a con, had fun, didn't get a boon. Someone else playing an aasimar before I do doesn't really bother me. My character is my character, she will be played when its her time.
That is a good outlook, but let me say that this whole thing started from taking only a piece of one response and analyzing it. My over-all arguement and response to this thread is this-
No, PFS is not a living campaign, I wish it was. I think we could make it a campaign by dividing up a large campaign amongst the VCs, allowing local writers/gms to participate in creating relevant modules for said campaign, then reporting the results every month and making adjustments to the overall story every few months. I do not agree with only opening basic playing options of any kind, be it race,classes what have you, to only a select few.
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Wait .. so people are going to "hate" on my level 5 (Gm credit thank you very much) Dhampir Master Summoner ...
Because I went to a con,
Donated my con time as a tier 1 judge (paid for my own room ty)
Paid for my gas from Iowa to Indiana
Paid for my own caffine
and managed to pick up something kind kewl, that everyone else will have access to in less than a year.
*snuggles her two boons from 3.5 days of judging, concrud (resulting in double ear infection and two doc visits)*
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Wait .. so people are going to "hate" on my level 5 (Gm credit thank you very much) Dhampir Master Summoner ...
Because I went to a con,
Donated my con time as a tier 1 judge (paid for my own room ty)
Paid for my gas from Iowa to Indiana
Paid for my own caffine
and managed to pick up something kind kewl, that everyone else will have access to in less than a year.
*snuggles her two boons from 3.5 days of judging, concrud (resulting in double ear infection and two doc visits)*
I am a combat vet with 15 months on the border of Iran so don't expect tears from me for your ear-ache.
Once again for those of you who apparently only read a portion of the forum befor responding, I do not"hate" anyone that has earned thier boons. I disagree with the system. What about the GMs that support their local store for the last few years, are they not as entitled just because for some reason or another they missed a single event?
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For the kind of "Living" campaign some people are advocating here, Paizo would need to design an entirely new setting. They have repeatedly said that they have no intentions to make sweeping changes to Golarion, even in their own Campaign Setting products, so they don't invalidate the various APs and adventures.
Never say never, but I think it is unlikely that Society play will ever:
have PCs make major political changes to Golarion (ex overthrow House Thrune)
have a regional structure with official locally created content
allow the PCs to be written in as power players in the game world
I'm not knocking that kind of campaign at all. I just think it would require a major rewrite, and possibly an entirely new world to do it in.
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I am a combat vet with 15 months on the border of Iran so don't expect tears from me for your ear-ache.
This is about the point in the conversation where the 'CRAZY!' alarm bells starting ringing for me.
Conventions are critical for the growth and uptake of PFS and players who participate in these events should get a special bonus, as long as it's not game breaking. Aasimar/Tiefling characters are a great reward.
But 'living' rewards should affect the entire game world and not just players who attend cons.
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Wait .. so people are going to "hate" on my level 5 (Gm credit thank you very much) Dhampir Master Summoner ...
Because I went to a con,
Donated my con time as a tier 1 judge (paid for my own room ty)
Paid for my gas from Iowa to Indiana
Paid for my own caffine
and managed to pick up something kind kewl, that everyone else will have access to in less than a year.
*snuggles her two boons from 3.5 days of judging, concrud (resulting in double ear infection and two doc visits)*
I am a combat vet with 15 months on the border of Iran so don't expect tears from me for your ear-ache.
Once again for those of you who apparently only read a portion of the forum befor responding, I do not"hate" anyone that has earned thier boons. I disagree with the system. What about the GMs that support their local store for the last few years, are they not as entitled just because for some reason or another they missed a single event?
First off; thanks for your service, as the sister of a vet I know what families go through as well as some of what the soldier goes through (I won't ever say I know entirely what they go through)
Secondly, I'm sure the boons will be made available to local areas, however, I dislike being made to feel like I need to apologize for obtaining a boon that someone else didn't get simply because there were situations preventing them from attending the same convention as me. I (and others that received these boons) put in time and money and the effort.
I respect that you disagree with the system, but please stop trying to make people feel bad about getting things in advance.
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I am a combat vet with 15 months on the border of Iran so don't expect tears from me for your ear-ache.
This is about the point in the conversation where the 'CRAZY!' alarm bells starting ringing for me.
Conventions are critical for the growth and uptake of PFS and players who participate in these events should get a special bonus, as long as it's not game breaking. Aasimar/Tiefling characters are a great reward.
But 'living' rewards should affect the entire game world and not just players who attend cons.
And everyone will have access to the races in a few months, it's not as if people that didn't attend gencon won't be able to play an Assimar or Tiefling, they will, just not as soon as those that were at the convention. Over all it's just a difference of 7 or 8 months (depending on the release), not a huge time difference.
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I think the new rewards program was ill-conceived. If it was a judge reward for running some number of slots or a player reward for contributing to the campaign (submitting a scenario outline or some sort of contest), that would be one thing.
Rewards for going to Gen Con do nothing to promote PFS. What behaviour are you rewarding? Going to Gen Con and playing PFS. How does that help PFS grow and prosper? It doesn't. It certainly seems to have created something of a backlash against the fortunate players who picked up the boons at Gen Con.
If I can't afford to attend Gen Con (which is in driving distance), I certainly can't afford to fly to Dragoncon or Tacticon. The nearest VC is about 40 miles down the road, but I haven't seen him in my city in 2 1/2 years of PFS play. Boons can be very helpful in promoting PFS, but they need to be tied to activities which grow PFS play.
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Rewards for going to Gen Con do nothing to promote PFS. What behaviour are you rewarding? Going to Gen Con and playing PFS. How does that help PFS grow and prosper? It doesn't. It certainly seems to have created something of a backlash against the fortunate players who picked up the boons at Gen Con.
Actually, it does help promote PFS. We had hundreds of new players stop in for some games. I personally had a number of n00bs both at regular scenario tables and the delves I ran. There was a lot of buzz from the new players, many of whom have decided to continue playing largely from their experience. Was the treasure vault with the product prizes and bonus boons responsible for that? By themselves no, but they sure contributed the new players enjoyment.
IMO, the boons absolutely helped to grow PFS by providing a "cool" bonus. If you were there and saw the excitement when someone rolled a nat 20 to earn a special prize, you would know why this is a good program and one I hope is not only continued but expanded.
As I stated before, it is being discussed how to provide special boons to more regional/local events. Will it be as big as GenCon, no, but the point is not to penalize non-attendees. It is to provide another point of "cool" to game play.
The granting of special boons, regardless of the venue, does nothing to negatively impact the play of someone who did not attend the event. It is no different than someone claiming they cannot play the new cool PC class because they cannot afford the newest book Paizo has published. We're not clamoring for Paizo to stop printing books just because one player can afford it and another cannot.
And its not like were talking about unique, one-time boons that you will never have access to. These are largely just early access items.
Please just be happy for players who were fortunate enough to win their prize. I'm sure these types of things will be available to you sometime soon.
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Rewards for going to Gen Con do nothing to promote PFS. What behaviour are you rewarding? Going to Gen Con and playing PFS. How does that help PFS grow and prosper? It doesn't. It certainly seems to have created something of a backlash against the fortunate players who picked up the boons at Gen Con.
But they do.
Much like you I didn't think they served any real purpose either, but they do perform one significant and major purpose at Cons - getting people excited. Excited players who keep coming back only increases the energy level in the room, which then spreads through the entire convention. Eventually word gets out that something "exciting" is happening up at the PFS room and people come just to check it out. I had two tables of players that showed up to Delve events just because of word of mouth, which is what something like this promotes.
Again, much like all of you I too couldn't understand why - but there really is a purpose, and it's an important one. Consider that Paizo is doing a very good job of making sure that this isn't ONLY a Gen Con thing - the boons and the like are being offered at other conventions, but again the purpose is the same, to drive a level of excitement amongst those at the convention.
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I think the new rewards program was ill-conceived.
I think this is where a lot of people are getting stuck.. on the wording.
The boons were not meant to be part of a new rewards program. Plain and simple they are a promotional item meant to promote a product that Paizo is soon releasing; granting everyone who buys the book a chance at playing the races.. so what if a few people get those early?
Eventually everyone will have access and before long people will be like "omg you're playing a Dwarf?? awesome" instead of "Wow, that's a Tiefling?"
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I am a combat vet with 15 months on the border of Iran so don't expect tears from me for your ear-ache.
This is about the point in the conversation where the 'CRAZY!' alarm bells starting ringing for me.
Well if you are hearing bells I guess you don't have an ear-ache.
I never ment to make people"feel bad" for obtaining these rewards. I just think that those who put the time and energy into promoting things through out a year locally, should get just as much, if not more rewards, than someone that shows up to one convention.
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I am a combat vet with 15 months on the border of Iran so don't expect tears from me for your ear-ache.
This is about the point in the conversation where the 'CRAZY!' alarm bells starting ringing for me.
Well if you are hearing bells I guess you don't have an ear-ache.
I never ment to make people"feel bad" for obtaining these rewards. I just think that those who put the time and energy into promoting things through out a year locally, should get just as much, if not more rewards, than someone that shows up to one convention.
It's been barely 4 weeks since Gencon, it has been said that they are working on sending the boons out to more local venues for people. Does it have to be immediately?? Are we really that much of an instant gratification meme society that we cannot give a company that we obviously like a chance to get the program situated for venues that aren't on as large of a scale as Gencon?
I don't believe that anyone has said that those that put their time and energy into promoting aren't going to get these, what has made you think that?
Personally, and please don't take this the wrong way, I think that you're blowing the boons thing a smidge out of proportion. I can see how, from the outside (not attending the con) it could look like special treatment and the fact that the boons have not trickled down into local venues yet could make it look moreso like that. However it was a special thing for Gencon to have them first available there. I'm sorry that life circumstances made it impossible for you to attend Gencon. Thought I'm sure that if you [u]had[/u] been able to make it and been lucky enough to obtain a boon that you would be on the other side of the fence touting how great it was. So you see, it's merely a matter of perspective moreso than favoritism.
Besides, the more we complain about this, the less Paizo is going to want to do for the players and then there won't be anyone that gets anything special from the company
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I am a combat vet with 15 months on the border of Iran so don't expect tears from me for your ear-ache.
This is about the point in the conversation where the 'CRAZY!' alarm bells starting ringing for me.
Well if you are hearing bells I guess you don't have an ear-ache.
I never ment to make people"feel bad" for obtaining these rewards. I just think that those who put the time and energy into promoting things through out a year locally, should get just as much, if not more rewards, than someone that shows up to one convention.
It's been barely 4 weeks since Gencon, it has been said that they are working on sending the boons out to more local venues for people. Does it have to be immediately?? Are we really that much of an instant gratification meme society that we cannot give a company that we obviously like a chance to get the program situated for venues that aren't on as large of a scale as Gencon?
I don't believe that anyone has said that those that put their time and energy into promoting aren't going to get these, what has made you think that?
Personally, and please don't take this the wrong way, I think that you're blowing the boons thing a smidge out of proportion. I can see how, from the outside (not attending the con) it could look like special treatment and the fact that the boons have not trickled down into local venues yet could make it look moreso like that. However it was a special thing for Gencon to have them first available there. I'm sorry that life circumstances made it impossible for you to attend Gencon. Thought I'm sure that if you [u]had[/u] been able to make it and been lucky enough to obtain a boon that you would be on the other side of the fence touting how great it was. So you see, it's merely a matter of perspective moreso than favoritism.
Besides, the more we complain about this, the less Paizo is going to want to do for the players and then there won't be anyone that...
A few things- I disagree with this system, even had I gotten a reward. I no longer participate in PFS as was stated by my ever vigilant VC. I am speaking about this because I think PFS could be better, and they are on the wrong track.
As far as it being "barley" 4 weeks. How long does it take, in this day in age with the internet, to allow access to a single sheet of paper. It is not a grueling task.
The more we give Pazio true feed-back, the better they will be as a company. If you know anything about buisness you know that most customers just quietly go away when they are unhappy with something. I like Pazio so I will address things that I do not agree with. It does not hurt them for me to do so, if anything it allows them some perspective as you put it.
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As far as it being "barely" 4 weeks. How long does it take, in this day in age with the internet, to allow access to a single sheet of paper. It is not a grueling task.
It may not be grueling, but it does require some re-working, and is not as high a priority as some of the other things the 1 person developing PFS has on his plate already.
And IIRC, that was originally only supposed to be part of his job at Paizo.And how much new stuff/changes do we really think should be going out with less than a month before the new Campaign Manager takes over?
Bottom line, the boons were a product promotion at Gen Con, and an extremely successful one. There was a constant lineup for the chance to get one. No favouritism was involved, it was all done based on participation and die roll. And it is no different than the special cards people have been getting in other OP campaigns for years, except that the boons will probably soon be available to everyone.
And I'd be willing to bet that people who make characters with the Race Guide will be higher level than my Undine Cleric within a month or two of its release.
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Nimon, could you please clarify something for me?If you no longer participate in PFS, why do you care if it could be better or worse? If you no longer participate, it would seem it has no affect on your gaming whatsoever. I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm trying to understand why you are arguing against something that affects you in no way since you no longer participate.
Any insight is appreciated.
Sure, I no longer participate for a few factors. 1- I do not have the time I am going through nursing school with my GI bill. 2- As rude as this is going to sound for some people, I do not enjoy playing with children at my local store. I can barly hear what they are saying and I tire of repeating myself constantly to explain the rules. I do GM for my niece and nephew, but when I play I like to play with adults. 3- There are a few individuals that really put me off to the game, one that cheated often on his dice, though after I called him on it I did not see him again, and another individual that instead of discussing things with me about a MOD I ran, instead interupted me on the GM forum when I was discussing the MOD and complained about how horrible I was.
Now why do I care? I would like to improve the system plain and simple. If it does improve, I would run it during the week instead of my home game, but many of those interested in my homegame, have simular issues with PFS. I am obviously not the only one, Sielyana and Col and others have posted simular things.
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I'm gonna echo a bit about the "how to make the campaign better" type of thing.
Regarding those boons, well, I've been quite against them as they seem to be exclusive regardless of their nature or meaning. In Finland there is no venture-captain, there is only 1 RPG related convention, and gaming at stores happens rarely. (though plans to start a regular Sunday game day have been around)
How would I ever be able to receive these boons? Fly to UK and attend GenCon UK that happens once a year? Even that doesn't guarantee me any boons. Then again I dislike all these boons.
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In fact, I have not really heard any players / GMs with new races complain about any being overpowered. They've only added to the roleplaying because the vast majority of Golarion is not used to seeing these races.
*raises hand*
I find them overpowered (aasimars, tieflings, etc.). The method at Gen Con (random rewards that you can't pick and choose) was somewhat acceptable. If these are "released into the wild", everyone in Golarion will be "used to seeing" them.I truly truly truly hope there is not going to be a huge expansion on races. I know it would heavily degrade my own enjoyment of PFS.
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For those who dislike the boons, I have not seen any suggestions what you think would be good player and/or DM rewards. I've always been of the mindset, if you are going to be vocal about a problem, then please present some solutions.
As I transition into the campaign coordinator position over the next two weeks, I am considering all issues brought up on these message boards, both in campaign and rules revisions and changes. The people who offer ideas and solutions, and not just voice their dislikes with no follow up, gain my attention more quickly.
I look forward with working with the player base to make PFS the best it can be.
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For those who dislike the boons, I have not seen any suggestions what you think would be good player and/or DM rewards. I've always been of the mindset, if you are going to be vocal about a problem, then please present some solutions.
As I transition into the campaign coordinator position over the next two weeks, I am considering all issues brought up on these message boards, both in campaign and rules revisions and changes. The people who offer ideas and solutions, and not just voice their dislikes with no follow up, gain my attention more quickly.
I look forward with working with the player base to make PFS the best it can be.
Mike,
I'm one that doesn't dislike the boon/prize system, personally I think it's a great way to generate excitement and offers a hook for new players.
However, a suggestion to alleviate the threads that will inevitably pop up with special boons/prizes etc., in the future. Perhaps as the system is being designed including,during the design phase, a way to quickly allocate the prizes to local areas quickly after the initial event.
VCs could easily be a part of that in so far as working on making "packets" to email to local coordinators that have a select number of the boons and suggestions on way to hand them out to local players.
I would also add the verbage that just giving all local players in the area all the boons would be game-breaking as then there is an over glut of the races before the book comes out and negates the purpose of generating excitement about the product release. If that is what the prize is supposed to do.
What might need to happen for quick allocation is to get a list of local coordinators -- daunting for certain sure, but if you have an email distribution list once the emails are obtained, it's a quick send at the end of the event and then local areas have it and players that can't make it to conventions will have access to the prizes as well -- granted on a smaller scale, but will still have access.
*my opinion*
I think the majority of the gripe isn't so much that they didn't get them as they didn't have a chance and haven't seen where they are going to get a chance to pick up the boons.
I'm gonna echo a bit about the "how to make the campaign better" type of thing.
Regarding those boons, well, I've been quite against them as they seem to be exclusive regardless of their nature or meaning. In Finland there is no venture-captain, there is only 1 RPG related convention, and gaming at stores happens rarely. (though plans to start a regular Sunday game day have been around)
How would I ever be able to receive these boons? Fly to UK and attend GenCon UK that happens once a year? Even that doesn't guarantee me any boons. Then again I dislike all these boons.
I think it is great that they are exclusive and that not everyone gets a chance to obtain them. This guarantees that they will remain unique.
Best
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Thanks for the input Thea. I've got some ideas, as any of the VCs can attest. They've seen my list of 40+ items on my plate, above and beyond my normal work duties, that I want to take a look at. They still haven't seen my entire list yet though :)
With that said, from my experience, the boons were a hit at both Gencon and DragonCon. I definitely understand how they affect players who do not live close to a VC or are able to get to a con. Not only did I serve the Atlanta area as the local VC, I also helped support southeastern TN, northern FL, eastern AL, etc... I have spoken to players in those areas that expressed some of the same concerns expressed here by others and I am sympathetic to those concerns. I also have some ideas to address these issues but I need to talk with other co-workers at Paizo to see what can and can't be done on my ideas list.
With that said, I've driven 67 of the past 92 hours so need to wait until I am rested, as well as in the office officially, before I can start addressing issues in a manner that the issues warrant. I would ask that everyone please temper your arguments at this point and please be patient for a bit longer while I settle in. But, I did respond here so those with concerns know I am listening to their concerns and watching these forums during my transit to Washington from Atlanta.
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For those who dislike the boons, I have not seen any suggestions what you think would be good player and/or DM rewards. I've always been of the mindset, if you are going to be vocal about a problem, then please present some solutions.[/QOUTE]
A few in this thread have already mentioned, and I did not think it repeated, that simply being able to effect the story line is boon enough. Having thier character in a future mod or a referance to some pathfinder expedition they participated in ect. If yhey want to hand out something more substantial, how about a plastic figurine of some monster showcased in a Module, something along those lines, not a direct game bonus.
As I transition into the campaign coordinator position over the next two weeks, I am considering all issues brought up on these message boards, both in campaign and rules revisions and changes. The people who offer ideas and solutions, and not just voice their dislikes with no follow up, gain my attention more quickly.
I look forward with working with the player base to make PFS the best it can be.
Well congratulations on the job, I think there is a lot of untaped player base out there that could get interested in this game with a few tweaks. I know I talk to a lot of them in my college, they really like the idea of short games because of schedul, but would enjoy a more "living campaign" feel. And I have said a few times on this thread how I think that could be done, take a large campaign spaning golarion, divide it up amongst VCs, get local GMS/Writers involved in the mod making process(I know many students that would do this for free for some small recognition), report results every month and make adjustments from there.
As far as it being "barley" 4 weeks.....It may not be grueling...
This issue may becoming a cereal problem, amirite?
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For those who dislike the boons, I have not seen any suggestions what you think would be good player and/or DM rewards. I've always been of the mindset, if you are going to be vocal about a problem, then please present some solutions.
As I previously noted, I do not dislike the boons, but I don't think they were properly designed to promote PFS. So they attracted a lot of attention at Gen Con and brought some new PFS players at Gen Con.
Once Gen Con is over, what does that do to spread PFS play? I'm sure that some met other people from their areas and will contine to play, but the majority are going to head home, not find local play and the benefit will be lost.
Now, if the boons were awarded to people who ran four games in their local area in two months, you would have a number of people running PFS in their local areas. You are growing the campaign at the grassroots level. This could have been tied to the beginners box release. I think it is a missed opportunity for Paizo.
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Sieylianna, I don't want to go into too much detail at this point, especially since I'm driving down I-90 at 70 mph, but I will disclose just a nugget of one of my 40+ to do list.
The VCs are aware of a lot of my ideas because I have listed a good deal of them on the VC forum for feedback.
As a GM with 75 games judged, I feel more support needs to be created in the reward areas for GMs. I'm currently working with the VCs and a select few other collaborators to revamp the GM star system that will include a special GM-only boon. I don't want to discuss the specifics more than that at this point but pit is on my radar.
As for the Beginners Box, I have some ideas, similar to what you have mentioned, to
Help market it and reward volunteers that participate. Again, I will provide more details in the coming weeks but they are on my list.
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Sieylianna, I don't want to go into too much detail at this point, especially since I'm driving down I-90 at 70 mph, but I will disclose just a nugget of one of my 40+ to do list.
The VCs are aware of a lot of my ideas because I have listed a good deal of them on the VC forum for feedback.
As a GM with 75 games judged, I feel more support needs to be created in the reward areas for GMs. I'm currently working with the VCs and a select few other collaborators to revamp the GM star system that will include a special GM-only boon. I don't want to discuss the specifics more than that at this point but pit is on my radar.
As for the Beginners Box, I have some ideas, similar to what you have mentioned, to
Help market it and reward volunteers that participate. Again, I will provide more details in the coming weeks but they are on my list.
Dont be that guy that texts and drives.
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Ok Mr. LG. Actually, I'm surfing and driving which is much worse than texting. But, I have plenty of practice. Have you noticed those fancy computers in the front of police cars? You can access the Internet with them. Twelve hour shifts are a killer and the Internet breaks the monotony. It is why I never wrote a ticket for texting and driving the entire three years I was on the road until I made detective.
As a public service announcement, do as I say, not as I do.
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Ok Mr. LG. Actually, I'm surfing and driving which is much worse than texting. But, I have plenty of practice. Have you noticed those fancy computers in the front of police cars? You can access the Internet with them. Twelve hour shifts are a killer and the Internet breaks the monotony. It is why I never wrote a ticket for texting and driving the entire three years I was on the road until I made detective.
As a public service announcement, do as I say, not as I do.
Ok well as a EMT for four years I used to scrap you guys off the pavement, but do what you do.
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I personally like the special boons system. As a GM at both Gen Con and Dragon Con I thought they got people interested, and offered something different to players. I was one of those naysayers who had major reservations about expanding the number of races. But seeing the racial boons in action a lot of my reservations have been lifted. They offer player more options, and I do not think they harm other players at the table in any way.
I think a lot of the disagreement here is over many players and GMs not having access to those boons. Perhaps to bring boons to a local level a system could be set up where Regional Coordinators could pass out a limited number of boons. One per table a GM will be running that month to give a number. The GMs could then hand out those boons at their table by whatever method they prefer. Such as selecting the best roleplayer out of the table, a VIP, or rolling a d20 to pick someone. I would worry about this system being abused though.
Another possibility is for GMs to record everyone’s PFS number when they run a table, and then pass those on to their regional coordinators, or similar person if one is not available in that region yet. This can be done through the usual reporting system. At the end of the month the regional coordinator could draw a number/s out of a hat (or whatever the preferred method would be), and give the selected player the special boon. This could possibly encourage GMs and players to report. Which is a good thing for PFS. And also give some of the thus far convention only boons to local players. Granted, this system could be a bit clunky and more work on regional coordinators. But it’s idea I am offering to mill over for those that want to give players and GMs who cannot attend conventions the opportunity to win some boons.
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For those who dislike the boons, I have not seen any suggestions what you think would be good player and/or DM rewards.
Well, here's the thing. I find all these special rewards absolutely useless. GMs already get XP for their characters for running games and that's dandy. But if you force an answer out of me, I'll say miniatures.
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For those who dislike the boons, I have not seen any suggestions what you think would be good player and/or DM rewards.Well, here's the thing. I find all these special rewards absolutely useless. GMs already get XP for their characters for running games and that's dandy. But if you force an answer out of me, I'll say miniatures.
Yeah. Swag. Give Con players miniatures or other product. Don't tier up their in game characters and knock things out of balance. Isn't that the point of PFS? Balance?
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So.... corrected me if I'm wrong. Dose this discussion on Boons and Con prizes correlate with the whole "Living Campaign" thread? It doesn't seem to to me.
I was originally asking if their was a plan to have the characters actions in the scenarios through faction missions to have an effect on the next season's theme.
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So.... corrected me if I'm wrong. Dose this discussion on Boons and Con prizes correlate with the whole "Living Campaign" thread? It doesn't seem to to me.
I was originally asking if their was a plan to have the characters actions in the scenarios through faction missions to have an effect on the next season's theme.
Well it did get derailed a bit, and appologies if I added to that. Though I did try to put it back on track a few times if you look at my posts. I think faction missions are key to determining the level of influence of the Inner Sea region, and it would be cool if the modules reflected that.
Speaking of factions I wanted to get something straight, we Cheliaxians worship Devils, not Demons. Its not so bad brother, come join me and I will explain the differance.
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So.... corrected me if I'm wrong. Dose this discussion on Boons and Con prizes correlate with the whole "Living Campaign" thread? It doesn't seem to to me.
I was originally asking if their was a plan to have the characters actions in the scenarios through faction missions to have an effect on the next season's theme.Well it did get derailed a bit, and appologies if I added to that. Though I did try to put it back on track a few times if you look at my posts. I think faction missions are key to determining the level of influence of the Inner Sea region, and it would be cool if the modules reflected that.
Speaking of factions I wanted to get something straight, we Cheliaxians worship Devils, not Demons. Its not so bad brother, come join me and I will explain the differance.
They are worth roughly the same XP when I SMITE them. So I see no difference LOL. But as an Andoran I am privileged to respect your right to worship as you see fit.
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For those who dislike the boons, I have not seen any suggestions what you think would be good player and/or DM rewards. I've always been of the mindset, if you are going to be vocal about a problem, then please present some solutions.
As I transition into the campaign coordinator position over the next two weeks, I am considering all issues brought up on these message boards, both in campaign and rules revisions and changes. The people who offer ideas and solutions, and not just voice their dislikes with no follow up, gain my attention more quickly.
I look forward with working with the player base to make PFS the best it can be.
Mike I personally think the boon system has promise although I agree it must be revamped. Initially I felt just like some of the posters here. But I get the promotional aspect of the boons and the excitement it brings (keep em' happy and they'll keep buying products!)
Several suggestions from someone who is both a player and a DM.
1. Allow every registered PFS member the ability to have (1) Non-core racial character. The player can have one and only one alternate race PC unless that character is retired or killed.
The way to implement this is to give the race boon a (chronicle code) so that it appears on the list of reporting mods, when that character plays his/her first mod the GM will report the played mod and the Alternate race mod, which in turn locks the possiblity of the race mod from being reported again while that character is still active.
2. Continue Chronicle boons for completed story arcs. This rewards consistency and a little devotion with a minor boon.
3. Defintely reward GM's who earn GM stars with minor boons or boons that can be turned in for something else (swag), Gm's normally have prep time in addition to the 4-5 hrs that they DM a chronicle so a reward other than GM credit will definitely be appreciated
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I cannot yet say what will or will not be allowed from the advanced race guide that is coming next Spring. These boons may just give early access depending on how open the additional rules will be. I am of the opinion that early access isn't THAT overpowered. Even IF the powers that be decide not to allow open access to non-core races, I believe the boons are being disseminated through the VCs to the coordinators in their regions and it's only a matter of time before most people should be able to have a chance at them.
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1. Allow every registered PFS member the ability to have (1) Non-core racial character. The player can have one and only one alternate race PC unless that character is retired or killed.
The way to implement this is to give the race boon a (chronicle code) so that it appears on the list of reporting mods, when that character plays his/her first mod the GM will report the played mod and the Alternate race mod, which in turn locks the possiblity of the race mod from being reported again while that character is still active.
2. Continue Chronicle boons for completed story arcs. This rewards consistency and a little devotion with a minor boon.
3. Defintely reward GM's who earn GM stars with minor boons or boons that can be turned in for something else (swag), Gm's normally have prep time in addition to the 4-5 hrs that they DM a chronicle so a reward other than GM credit will definitely be appreciated
Sorry, can't get on board with this. If the player dies in a scenario that doesn't get reported, then they can't start a new non core, while someone who dies in a scenario with a responsible GM can? Nope, sorry, as much as I trust people, I also know how it can take 6 months for big cons to be reported (not relating this to the responsible comment above).
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Sorry, can't get on board with this. If the player dies in a scenario that doesn't get reported, then they can't start a new non core, while someone who dies in a scenario with a responsible GM can? Nope, sorry, as much as I trust people, I also know how it can take 6 months for big cons to be reported (not relating this to the responsible comment above).
If its not reported then neither would the fact that he used a non-core race!
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One option may be to also distribute boons to folks as they earn GM stars.
I do think the boon system is a great reward for those who go to major conventions -- and this is coming from someone who has not had a chance to ever go to Gencon or Dragoncon. It's a cool (and inexpensive) promotion that generates a lot of excitement.
At the same time, it does rely on dumb luck and reward those who can afford to travel to these conventions.
Perhaps also rewarding the people who make the PFS what it is today -- the GM's -- would introduce a bit of merit into the boon system.
I can't see how anyone could jealously claim that a four star or five star GM is undeserving of such a boon. It also introduces a clear avenue of reward for those who may not be able to attend these cons.
I think this is a great idea. It is always great to have incentives to DM. One of my favorite perks of PFS over other "Living" campaigns was that the DM also gets credit for one of his characters.
In general I think there should be more player rewards, both from adventures and convention rewards. Adventure rewards have been popping up more in some of the newer material (and I have yet to play Season 3 adventures) but I feel there could be more impact. I recall from Living Greyhawk some very interesting rewards coming from adventures.
One of my favorite was from an adventure where the party gets transported to the Fey realm, and is shapeshifted into an animal in order to escape the notice of powerful fey beings in the area. You were randomly assigned an animal; sparrow, gopher, snake, etc. My paladin was transformed into a pig, and the adventure itself was very fun. At the end though, each player got a specific reward that could be used for 4 rounds total, and was then lost. Mine was the ability to rage like a barbarian. Sure it was only 4 rounds in his career, but it was really cool when I was fighting some big nasty dragon way later in his career, and I look up at the DM and say "I Rage!"
I recall another that was a blessing, given to me by a dwarf king, that let me cast Stoneskin on myself, and when I ended up playing up at a table that I probably shouldn't have, and had to stand up to an Ettin, it saved my character's life. These were the two most powerful rewards I remember, but there were many other minor ones that came up in memorable ways.
If players are going back and referencing their previous adventures for rewards that they earned for completing a mission, that's part of what I consider a "Living" campaign. Sure, your character really isn't going to influence the plotline, and as a player you know that. But if a player can go, "Oh! I remember when I helped slay that dragon in the Linnorm Kingdoms! I have a +1 bonus to reflex against breath weapons! I make my save!" That player will remember not only his current mission, but the one he earned the reward. If the reward saves his life, I'm sure that will be one of that players more memorable moments in Pathfinder Society, and he'll know that his previous adventures affected him more than just a static +1 XP and +Gold.
In specific regards to conventions and "boons", I think they are a great idea. It takes alot of effort to set up a convention, and alot to attend, both at national and regional scale. Boons, rewards, whatever you'd like to call them, are incentives for players to attend. Personally I enjoy attending conventions, especially my local ones where I can connect with new players as well as see old veterans. If a few extra players attend because they are excited about boons, then they are a success. If a few players at a convention earn a boon, get excited about it, and talk to their friends, then they are a success. I myself only started playing PFS because I went to a local convention that previously hosted Living Greyhawk, and became excited about PFS, went back home where there wasn't a PFS presence, and decided to start up my own group. Now four months later I have several of my players excited about going to the next convention being hosted locally. I'm sure if the possibility of a special boon was there, more might even attend.
As long as the convention boons are a minor effect or early access, I can't see them doing anything harmful except perhaps making people jealous they didn't get one. Which, really, is kind of the point of a reward. It's not special if everyone has one.
Some examples of player/DM rewards off the top of my head:
Vanities from the Field Guide - Yes, they do cost anywhere from 2 to 30 PP, but can you honestly say that the 30 PP Coastal Island will ever have an in game effect? And how many people are going to spend 30 PP just to say they have an island, that has nil effect on the game? Most of the vanities have very minor effects, mostly affecting Day Job rolls. Rewarding a playing his very own ship would be really exciting for a player, but really won't affect his "power level" at all.
Single Use Dice Re-rolls - They already exist due to the PFS shirts, so its established to be a viable reward.
Day Job effects -
~Reroll a dayjob roll of less than 5.
~Critical dayjob roll effect - If you roll a 20 you get a free cure light wound potion.
~Earn an additional 5g on dayjob rolls (Max of 180g extra, not that much).
Bonus Traits - I personally think once you start awarding bonuses on par with traits, you are nearing or surpassing the power level that should be granted by boons, but it could be done as traits are still rather minor in effect. In addition, a boon could give a specific trait that wouldn't be considered that powerful, but would be situational (+1 vs fear).
Single use Class Abilities - Smite Evil, Rage, Evasion, etc. One use then crossed off.
Cantrips - Prestigitation, Light, etc usable once daily.